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1. Proposals are approved or denied no later than five days after the quarter ends. They may be approved sooner as time and GM consensus allows.
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 Trapping: Damage compensation 

Remember only GM's Can Vote
 
Freemage, RFT, Pender Lumkiss
 
 
 
 
Approved (All Approved House Rules Are Subject to Play Pesting) 100%  100%  [ 3 ]
Approved (For Limited Play Testing Only, Approval Required for Each Character) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Needs Work 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Disapproved 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Abstain 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 3

 Trapping: Damage compensation 
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One of my players came up with a trapping I thought was good enough to share and get others opinions on. I plan on letting him use it for this application, but with some fine tuning I think everyone would appreciate it.

Erin Sol wrote:
Damage Compensation: By sharing or enhancing a Techno-Wizard's connection to machinery the target subconsciously compensates for penalties inflicted by using damaged equipment.

For +1PPE the target can ignore 2 points of penalties to the affected skill from damaged equipment. As a replacement for the normal effects of a raise the amount of penalty ignored increases to 4 points.


Damage Compensation
By sharing or enhancing a Techno-Wizard's connection to machinery the target subconsciously compensates for penalties inflicted by using damaged equipment.
  • For +1PPE the target can ignore 2 points of penalties to the affected skill from damaged equipment. As a replacement for the normal effects of a raise the amount of penalty ignored increases to 4 points.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:34 am
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I like it! (Of course I do, as a TW....)

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:04 am
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Funny, I forgot to add a poll, and I am the one who wants polls on everything.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:25 am
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I don't see a problem with the trapping it just looks like a very niche trapping.

Vehicle damage caps a three (or wrecked) and unless you roll a crit-fail followed by a 6 on the effect die I don't see glitches being more than a -2. Unless there are other opportunities to develop penalties on equipment this just feels like wasted PP because every time you use the power you have to pay the cost. But if a player wants to put that onto a power I would be willing to let them.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:07 pm
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Kuikku wrote:
I don't see a problem with the trapping it just looks like a very niche trapping.

Vehicle damage caps a three (or wrecked) and unless you roll a crit-fail followed by a 6 on the effect die I don't see glitches being more than a -2. Unless there are other opportunities to develop penalties on equipment this just feels like wasted PP because every time you use the power you have to pay the cost. But if a player wants to put that onto a power I would be willing to let them.


I could see a TW or Gadgeteer using it for one of their temporary Gadgets, when the time was right... or with Greater Smite on a damaged weapon

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Main Character: Merlaggon
PPE: 14 / 30
Active Powers:
None
OOC Comments
Arcane Machinist Gadgets Left: 2/6
Created Gadgets:
  • Group Mind Re-Integrator (Boost/Lower Trait with Temporal Thought Trapping) - 20 PPE-> 15 PPE-> 10 PPE
  • Biological Integrity Re-Integrator (Healing) - 20 PPE
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  • Sub-Quantum Self Transitioner (Slumber with Temporal Thought Trapping) - 20 PPE
Adventure Cards
  • Lucky Break - Play this card to completely negate the damage from one attack.
  • Out of the Frying Pan - Play to avoid death, capture, or some other bad situation for your hero or any ally. The situation leads to some new trouble, however, as determined by the GM.
Armor: Dwarven Technosmith (TW) H-1 Combat Armor
  • Structural Integrity Field (Armor Power; Self Only; Free Action; 3/6 PPE)
  • Exceptional Rapid Recharge (1 PPE per 5 Minutes)
  • 4 PPE per Hour to Charge
  • Strength d12+2

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  • Damage: 3d8+5 AP6 MD.
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  • Sound (Deafness) Trapping
  • +2 to Shooting

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Toughness: 29 (21) / 19 (11) / 12 (5); Parry: 4; Pace: 9 / 7 / (5)

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:30 pm
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Which is exactly what the character is using it for

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:32 pm
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I originally proposed it to RFT for a gadget while inside a damaged APC.

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Character Name: Erin Sol
Parry:6(8)*, Toughness: 13(7)[14(7)]*
* Increased abilities from TW device
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Dressed to Kill -Your hero dresses up, is “on” for the night, or otherwise far more attractive or charismatic than usual. Add +4 to your Charisma for the duration of the current “scene.”

Active Powers: Exalted Quickness, Boost Trait (+1d Shooting ignore 4pt penalties from damaged equipment) Boost Trait (+1d TW ignore 4pt penalties from damaged equipment)

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:33 pm
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Love the trapping. I would approve if it was receive a level of fatigue for an hour that cannot be restored.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:09 pm
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Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Love the trapping. I would approve if it was receive a level of fatigue for an hour that cannot be restored.

You mean in addition to the extra PPE cost, or in place of it?

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:14 pm
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RFT wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Love the trapping. I would approve if it was receive a level of fatigue for an hour that cannot be restored.

You mean in addition to the extra PPE cost, or in place of it?


Instead. This seems similiar to the mystics gift of life. I realize a +2 to a skill is different than ignore penalties. But much of what the gift of life does is let a healing roll ignore healing penalties up to a -2.

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:05 pm
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Eh, the thing is, Pender, that directly undercuts the effect of the spell--lose a penalty on one set of rolls to gain a penalty on ALL rolls.

In addition, the comparison to the Mystic's effect misses a key difference--the Mystic's bonus is 'always on', whereas this only applies in situations where the equipment is already damaged. This is far more situational, as a result.

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:23 am
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How is a +2 to healing not a situational bonus? Sure it is always on, but when do you use healing when there are no wound penalties? Sure if you only got 1 wound you get a plus 1 to your roll. But in some ways this trapping as an advantage as on a raise it ignores up to a -4 penalty. Like I said previously they are not the same, but the comparision is close enough. I would be fine if the fatigue came at the end of the duration of the power.

Just out of curiousity, if the trapping was against wound penalties, illumination penalties, cover, to hit, range penalties, would it be fine if it had a -2, -4 cadence. I realize wounds go to -3, but maybe it lets you ignore incap while the power is active. I also think a bonus of -2, -4 seems fairly high. If it were -1, -2 it would seem more cosmetic and more in line with a +1 ppt. Want to just go -1 sure seems cosmetic enough for no trade off. Or even just a -2 but only on a raise.

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:49 am
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Pender Lumkiss wrote:
How is a +2 to healing not a situational bonus? Sure it is always on, but when do you use healing when there are no wound penalties? Sure if you only got 1 wound you get a plus 1 to your roll. But in some ways this trapping as an advantage as on a raise it ignores up to a -4 penalty. Like I said previously they are not the same, but the comparision is close enough. I would be fine if the fatigue came at the end of the duration of the power.

Just out of curiousity, if the trapping was against wound penalties, illumination penalties, cover, to hit, range penalties, would it be fine if it had a -2, -4 cadence. I realize wounds go to -3, but maybe it lets you ignore incap while the power is active. I also think a bonus of -2, -4 seems fairly high. If it were -1, -2 it would seem more cosmetic and more in line with a +1 ppt. Want to just go -1 sure seems cosmetic enough for no trade off. Or even just a -2 but only on a raise.


That's just it. If the Trapping was for everything, I'd agree with you that it would need to be halved, and even then get the Fatigue hit. But it's not--it's only against a very specific type of penalty, and a comparatively rare one at that. (Most folks don't walk around with damaged gear--they either repair it or find a replacement item as fast as feasible.) Meanwhile, you're always paying that extra cost. So the Trapping literally becomes a hindrance when you're NOT using damaged gear, which is going to be most of the time.

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:25 am
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Since I already typed it I'll just add this to what Freemage said.

I'm thinking the difference would be there is no power that directly relates to operating machinery so the whatever power you attached the trapping to would only benefit if used in conjunction operating damaged machinery. The rest of the time using the power would confer no useful bonus. In the case of healing the trapping is beneficial 100% of the time since you would only use it when actually healing. I think it would be different if there were powers that specific to this purpose but that is pretty much in the realm of edges such as Ace and Telemechanics (or Machine Maestro.)

For example if the trapping were added to the Armor power then the trapping would only be useful if casting Armor (or activating an Armor gadget for TW) then trying to operate the damaged machine. The rest of the time you are getting fatigue for no gain.

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Player: James
Alts: Fizzwaite Zipwidget, Hawdore, Sparkmort "Sparky" Zipwidget

Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d6 | Vigor d6
Pace 6 | Parry 5 | Toughness 12(5)

Frequently used skills
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Persuasion d8 + 2
Shooting d8

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Scholar [Archaeology, History]: +2 to Knowledge(Archaeology) and Knowledge(History)
Investigator: +2 Investigation and Streetwise
Linguist: Begin play with a number of languages equal to Smarts (@ Smarts die level); Smarts –2 to be understood in any language heard for a week
Charismatic: +2 to Charisma
Strong Willed: +2 to Intimidation and Taunt, +2 to resist Tests of Will
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Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:27 am
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Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?

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Professor Adam Radecliffe
Professor Adam Radecliffe (Rogue Scholar)
Bennies 3 of 4

Player: James
Alts: Fizzwaite Zipwidget, Hawdore, Sparkmort "Sparky" Zipwidget

Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d6 | Vigor d6
Pace 6 | Parry 5 | Toughness 12(5)

Frequently used skills
Alertness d8 + 2
Persuasion d8 + 2
Shooting d8

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Scholar [Archaeology, History]: +2 to Knowledge(Archaeology) and Knowledge(History)
Investigator: +2 Investigation and Streetwise
Linguist: Begin play with a number of languages equal to Smarts (@ Smarts die level); Smarts –2 to be understood in any language heard for a week
Charismatic: +2 to Charisma
Strong Willed: +2 to Intimidation and Taunt, +2 to resist Tests of Will
Brawny: +1 Toughness and load limit is 8 x STR
Brave: +2 to Fear tests
Elan: +2 when spending a Benny on a Trait roll (including soak rolls)
Alertness: +2 Notice
Steady Hands: Ignore unstable platform penalty; Running penalty reduced to –1

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: The mysteries of the world await
(Minor) Wanted [Coalition]: Possession of forbidden knowledge with intent to distribute
(Minor) Bad Eyes: The spirit is willing but the eyes can't see a damned thing


Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:34 am
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Radecliffe wrote:
Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?

I think it is a limited use of telemechanics meant to overcome technical difficulties.

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:49 am
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Freemage wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:
How is a +2 to healing not a situational bonus? Sure it is always on, but when do you use healing when there are no wound penalties? Sure if you only got 1 wound you get a plus 1 to your roll. But in some ways this trapping as an advantage as on a raise it ignores up to a -4 penalty. Like I said previously they are not the same, but the comparision is close enough. I would be fine if the fatigue came at the end of the duration of the power.

Just out of curiousity, if the trapping was against wound penalties, illumination penalties, cover, to hit, range penalties, would it be fine if it had a -2, -4 cadence. I realize wounds go to -3, but maybe it lets you ignore incap while the power is active. I also think a bonus of -2, -4 seems fairly high. If it were -1, -2 it would seem more cosmetic and more in line with a +1 ppt. Want to just go -1 sure seems cosmetic enough for no trade off. Or even just a -2 but only on a raise.


That's just it. If the Trapping was for everything, I'd agree with you that it would need to be halved, and even then get the Fatigue hit. But it's not--it's only against a very specific type of penalty, and a comparatively rare one at that. (Most folks don't walk around with damaged gear--they either repair it or find a replacement item as fast as feasible.) Meanwhile, you're always paying that extra cost. So the Trapping literally becomes a hindrance when you're NOT using damaged gear, which is going to be most of the time.


Fair enough. Approved.

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-1 for libertas to take some wounds.


Vampire Kingdoms GM Bennies
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-1 to soak for Morgoth
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Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:51 am
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Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Radecliffe wrote:
Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?

I think it is a limited use of telemechanics meant to overcome technical difficulties.


Ok, I can see how adding this trapping to telepathy could function as a limited version of Telemechanics. So a psionic with this trapping and Telemechanics, do the bonuses stack?

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Professor Adam Radecliffe
Professor Adam Radecliffe (Rogue Scholar)
Bennies 3 of 4

Player: James
Alts: Fizzwaite Zipwidget, Hawdore, Sparkmort "Sparky" Zipwidget

Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d6 | Vigor d6
Pace 6 | Parry 5 | Toughness 12(5)

Frequently used skills
Alertness d8 + 2
Persuasion d8 + 2
Shooting d8

Edges
Scholar [Archaeology, History]: +2 to Knowledge(Archaeology) and Knowledge(History)
Investigator: +2 Investigation and Streetwise
Linguist: Begin play with a number of languages equal to Smarts (@ Smarts die level); Smarts –2 to be understood in any language heard for a week
Charismatic: +2 to Charisma
Strong Willed: +2 to Intimidation and Taunt, +2 to resist Tests of Will
Brawny: +1 Toughness and load limit is 8 x STR
Brave: +2 to Fear tests
Elan: +2 when spending a Benny on a Trait roll (including soak rolls)
Alertness: +2 Notice
Steady Hands: Ignore unstable platform penalty; Running penalty reduced to –1

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: The mysteries of the world await
(Minor) Wanted [Coalition]: Possession of forbidden knowledge with intent to distribute
(Minor) Bad Eyes: The spirit is willing but the eyes can't see a damned thing


Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:49 am
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Radecliffe wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Radecliffe wrote:
Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?

I think it is a limited use of telemechanics meant to overcome technical difficulties.


Ok, I can see how adding this trapping to telepathy could function as a limited version of Telemechanics. So a psionic with this trapping and Telemechanics, do the bonuses stack?

As a general rule, bonuses and penalty negation do stack

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:32 pm
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I would allow them to stack myself.

So as it stands we have two in favor and two on the fence?

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:54 pm
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I only see approved

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:39 pm
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Radecliffe wrote:
Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?


On this one aspect I can comment. The trapping was presented as part of a Boost Trait gadget with the penalty reduction only applying to the affected skill i.e. shooting, driving, piloting etc. Which is a pretty easy connection between getting better with a skill and overcoming hindrances to that skill. Also because of the specific power choice that raise replacement is really replacing a one die increase with ignoring two more points of penalties which is only a benefit on equipment with -4 or greater penalties and only kinda breaks even on equipment with 3pts in penalties. On some powers it would make less sense and that is why Pinnacle says that Trappings are always a GM call.

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Character Name: Erin Sol
Parry:6(8)*, Toughness: 13(7)[14(7)]*
* Increased abilities from TW device
-1 to be hit by ranged Exalted Quickness
Wounds: 0/3 Fatigue: 0/2
PPE: 7/15 Master of Magic
  • Quickness:
  • Dispel:
  • Warrior's Gift:
  • Speed:

Gadgets 2/4 remaining
Current Gadgets

Advnture Card
Dressed to Kill -Your hero dresses up, is “on” for the night, or otherwise far more attractive or charismatic than usual. Add +4 to your Charisma for the duration of the current “scene.”

Active Powers: Exalted Quickness, Boost Trait (+1d Shooting ignore 4pt penalties from damaged equipment) Boost Trait (+1d TW ignore 4pt penalties from damaged equipment)

Bennies 6/3


Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:32 pm
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Erin Sol wrote:
Radecliffe wrote:
Though I have to admit this trapping smacks of metagaming to me. This is basically a trapping and a power that have nothing to do with each other and its only purpose is to provide an in game benefit without any sort of in game rationalization. Electricity provides energizing benefits and shocking penalties. Darkness and stealth are logical pairings and fit in with a number of defensive type powers. So what is the rationale for this trapping?


On this one aspect I can comment. The trapping was presented as part of a Boost Trait gadget with the penalty reduction only applying to the affected skill i.e. shooting, driving, piloting etc. Which is a pretty easy connection between getting better with a skill and overcoming hindrances to that skill. Also because of the specific power choice that raise replacement is really replacing a one die increase with ignoring two more points of penalties which is only a benefit on equipment with -4 or greater penalties and only kinda breaks even on equipment with 3pts in penalties. On some powers it would make less sense and that is why Pinnacle says that Trappings are always a GM call.


Fair enough.

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Ancient wisdom from the Golden Age: Don't Panic.

Professor Adam Radecliffe
Professor Adam Radecliffe (Rogue Scholar)
Bennies 3 of 4

Player: James
Alts: Fizzwaite Zipwidget, Hawdore, Sparkmort "Sparky" Zipwidget

Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d6 | Vigor d6
Pace 6 | Parry 5 | Toughness 12(5)

Frequently used skills
Alertness d8 + 2
Persuasion d8 + 2
Shooting d8

Edges
Scholar [Archaeology, History]: +2 to Knowledge(Archaeology) and Knowledge(History)
Investigator: +2 Investigation and Streetwise
Linguist: Begin play with a number of languages equal to Smarts (@ Smarts die level); Smarts –2 to be understood in any language heard for a week
Charismatic: +2 to Charisma
Strong Willed: +2 to Intimidation and Taunt, +2 to resist Tests of Will
Brawny: +1 Toughness and load limit is 8 x STR
Brave: +2 to Fear tests
Elan: +2 when spending a Benny on a Trait roll (including soak rolls)
Alertness: +2 Notice
Steady Hands: Ignore unstable platform penalty; Running penalty reduced to –1

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: The mysteries of the world await
(Minor) Wanted [Coalition]: Possession of forbidden knowledge with intent to distribute
(Minor) Bad Eyes: The spirit is willing but the eyes can't see a damned thing


Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:46 pm
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I think this trapping is balanced overall.

Its specificity (really focused around a particular power, narrow scope of utility, etc.) probably means it's good for a an individual character but not "general use". My gut reaction was, this is really an edge or power being jammed into a trapping.

VV

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Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:46 am
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It'd be a really cool edge though.

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Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm
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