Damage Resistance Types Interpretation

[Ndreare]

For the site how are we Interpreting Damage Resistance Types?

Which of the two options are GM's leaning to:
Are we defining damage resistances as Clink Black does?
Are we using a more common sense approach?

In this case the specific application will be fore an ARES character with the Regeneration ability.

Specifically HEREis a link to Clint Blacks answer on the topic.

Nope. Resistance (10) to Kinetic would have absolutely zero effect on bullets (Metal), spears (Metal or Biological), or punches (Biological) which are all forms of Matter. The character would be completely immune to Telekinesis, Attack powers with a kinetic energy trapping, blasters (kinetic), and anything else based purely on kinetic energy.

FYI, Superman just has Heavy Armor to resist all of those things (at least for punches from normal folks).

To be clear, regardless of changes or additions, Kinetic by itself should never do all the things listed above, it would be hugely overbalanced. It's why Absorption charges +5 to affect all Matter and another +5 to affect all Energy (still with a –2 for any forms other than the primary). That would be a closer approximation to absorption of "kinetic energy" in the real world (as much as any super power could be "real").

[Radecliffe]

The issue with kinetic resistance applying to all forms of physical violence where one solid object hits another solid object while much more realistic make kinetic an insanely powerful resistance compared to other types of resistance. Of course I think that resistances are way too fragmented as they are currently. I can understand why Peg did it the way they did from a balance perspective but it seems to me that it is neither fast nor fun the way it is implemented.

If it were up to me resistances would fall into four categories:

1. Kinetic (Arcane)
2. Kinetic (Non-Arcane)
3. Energy (Arcane)
4. Energy (Non-Arcane)

[Ndreare]

I edited the post for clarity and decided to vote anyways for consistency.

While I disagree very passionately for home games, I think it can get taken to far in an open forum such as ours. For example for Humble I plan to take resistance to fire, cold, metal, and biological. Making it so he can take a rail gun blast or vibro-sword at point blank and regenerate is pretty impressive.

[Tribe of One]

I voted for Clint's interpretation. I know some here like to get all "But science!" and nerd rage about it, but it's balanced. Gamist, yes, and I can see how it's offensive to folks' sense of "common sense" realism, but balance is more important IMO.

[Ndreare]

Hey I am one of those guys who struggles with the irrationality of it. But I also see the need for a divide other than the one provided by physics.

[Freemage]

To be perfectly honest, the only way I could remotely see going the non-Clint direction would be to make it about 10x more expensive than any other 'energy' type, since that's about the ratio that would come up, once you factor in all the unarmed monsters who can ONLY do natural weaponry attacks, plus the railguns and vibro and chain weapons.

[Pender Lumkiss]

It would seem resistances and immunities are looked at in terms of what is actually hitting your skin or furr. Not nessesarily the force behind it. Is there any thought to taking another look at the ARES resistances... I think we need more work to make the resistances and immunities more in line with SR, where is it not about defining what you are resistant to, but what you are weak too.

Why not take a page from the wild vampires, and instead of listing what you are immune to, list basically you are immune to everything as below. Then list an appropriate ammount of weaknesses. A couple that stop your regeneration, and a couple that will just straight out destroy you and shutdown your supernatural abilities.

„ „ Immunities: Vampires are immortal and ignore poison, disease, fire, cold, radiation, and virtually all other sources of mundane damage or negative effects. They need no food or water (only blood, the lack of which drives them insane).

„ „ Invulnerable: Vampires can only be Shaken by most attacks, including those that do Mega Damage.

Maybe take out the bit about food or water...

[High Command]

I'm okay with resistance to Kinetics being both common sense (physics) and costing extra (equivalent to Magic or Psionics). To me that makes a certain amount of sense.

[Ndreare]

I'm okay with resistance to Kinetics being both common sense (physics) and costing extra (equivalent to Magic or Psionics). To me that makes a certain amount of sense.

I can see that as legitimate. That is what I am trying to achieve with Metal+Biological. It would be nice to have an alternate option.

Such as...
For two selections the character is immune to non-arcane physical attacks.
For two selections the character is immune to non-arcane energy attacks.

This creates an option like the immune to magic and could better capture those Lycanthrope and Vampire types.

[Kuikku]

I am afraid that if we play around with resistances too much it may cause more problems than it solves.

Someone who is moderately experience with SW decides to join up and play a little SR. He ends up with some sort of resistance and likes the way it works. He then goes and plays a in another situation and suddenly his resistance does not work the same way. How upset will he be? Or even the other way around.

We may have the adjustment listed under house rules but that does not prevent someone from thinking that is "the way it always works."


I really feel we need to just keep it Clint-ruled. It may not be very physics consistent but it is game consistent.

[High Command]

Unless we're talking about it having some sort of energy envelope (fire, ice, light, lightning, shadow, or whatever), a solid object hitting something is solid object hitting something, no matter what is pushing it. It can be pushed by electromagnets, thrown by a catapult, thrown by supernatural strength, dropped by gravity, slid across ice, or thrown with telekinesis - but once that initiating force ends, it's a solid object hitting something. Either you can mitigate kinetic energy or you cannot. Note a purely telekinetic force is an arcane thing and does not apply to this.

All that said, here's the relevant passage from ARES. So I'll suggest a change to ARES, and NOT a general house rule. We cannot change how SPC works, no matter how silly. But I can take a different tack with ARES as well

Current:

11: Resistance and Regeneration: You receive a +4 bonus to resist four negative environmental/damage effects, chosen from the following list. Each may only be chosen once. This also counts as Armor against attacks based on that element. You also gain the the Fast Healer Edge, +2 Toughness, and the Slow Regeneration ability, or upgrade an existing Slow Regeneration Ability to Fast Regeneration. You cannot override a racial weakness or vulnerability with this feature.
Cold/Ice, Darkness, Earth/Stone, Electricity/Lightning/Ion, Fire/Heat, Force, Kinetic Energy (including bullets, explosions, and rail guns), Light (including daylight and lasers), Magnetism, Necromantic, Poisons/Diseases, Radiation, Sound, Specific Metals (Silver, Cold Iron, etc), Water, Wind & Air, and others as appropriate. Note you can trade two resistance choices to include all Magical Sources OR all Psionics sources of damage. But even friendly arcane powers of the chosen type must subtract this modifier to affect the resistant hero. This does not combine with similar abilities, such as the Arcane Resistance Edge.

If you roll this again, you become Invulnerable: For your chosen elements, you can only be Shaken by these effects. Further, you can only be wounded by mega damage arcane background powers. If you have Magic or Psionic resistance instead, you cannot be killed, only incapacitated, by those damage sources.

Suggested change:

11: Resistance and Regeneration: You receive a +4 bonus to resist four negative environmental/damage effects, chosen from the following list. Each may only be chosen once. This also counts as Armor against attacks based on that element. You also gain the the Fast Healer Edge, +2 Toughness, and the Slow Regeneration ability, or upgrade an existing Slow Regeneration Ability to Fast Regeneration. You cannot override a racial weakness or vulnerability with this feature.
Cold/Ice, Darkness, Earth/Stone, Electricity/Lightning/Ion, Fire/Heat, Force, Light (including daylight and lasers), Magnetism, Necromantic, Poisons/Diseases, Radiation, Sound, Specific Metals (Silver, Cold Iron, etc), Water, Wind & Air, and others as appropriate. Note you can trade two resistance choices to include all Magical OR all Psionic OR all Kinetic sources of damage. But even friendly arcane powers of the chosen type must subtract this modifier to affect the resistant hero. This does not combine with similar abilities, such as the Arcane Resistance Edge. Kinetic damage is defined as any damage resulting from a solid object hitting the character, such as rail gun slugs, bullets, melee weapons, fists, or even rocks. If the object is augmented by an arcane effect (Smite, for example, or a fire trapping) it counts as that type of arcane damage type.

If you roll this again, you become Invulnerable: For your chosen elements (including kinetic resistance), you can only be Shaken by these effects. Further, you can only be wounded by mega damage arcane background powers. If you have Magic or Psionic resistance instead, you cannot be killed, only incapacitated, by those damage sources.

[Radecliffe]

Suggested change:

11: Resistance and Regeneration: You receive a +4 bonus to resist four negative environmental/damage effects, chosen from the following list. Each may only be chosen once. This also counts as Armor against attacks based on that element. You also gain the the Fast Healer Edge, +2 Toughness, and the Slow Regeneration ability, or upgrade an existing Slow Regeneration Ability to Fast Regeneration. You cannot override a racial weakness or vulnerability with this feature.
Cold/Ice, Darkness, Earth/Stone, Electricity/Lightning/Ion, Fire/Heat, Force, Kinetic Energy (including bullets, explosions, and rail guns), Light (including daylight and lasers), Magnetism, Necromantic, Poisons/Diseases, Radiation, Sound, Specific Metals (Silver, Cold Iron, etc), Water, Wind & Air, and others as appropriate. Note you can trade two resistance choices to include all Magical OR all Psionic OR all Kinetic sources of damage. But even friendly arcane powers of the chosen type must subtract this modifier to affect the resistant hero. This does not combine with similar abilities, such as the Arcane Resistance Edge. Kinetic damage is defined as any damage resulting from a solid object hitting the character. If the object is augmented by an arcane effect (Smite, for example, or a fire trapping) it counts as that type of arcane damage type.

If you roll this again, you become Invulnerable: For your chosen elements (including kinetic resistance), you can only be Shaken by these effects. Further, you can only be wounded by mega damage arcane background powers. If you have Magic or Psionic resistance instead, you cannot be killed, only incapacitated, by those damage sources.

Question: How does the section you highlighted differ from the option in the "pick four" section of the text (highlighted by me.) I'm just not sure how the former version is more limited that the latter version. Or should the latter version be edited out as it is superseded by the latter version?

[High Command]

Should be edited out/moved. Seeing as how SPC rules say that is too powerful.

edit: edited my post

[Radecliffe]

I kinda like the way that works out. If I understand the way that option works you can end up resistant or immune to 2 out of 3 base types but not all 3. The other option being resistant or immune to 4 more limited damage types such as fire.

[High Command]

That's the rub. Not as per those powers, Light resistance makes you laser resistant, and electricity resistant makes you ion resistant