75 Patron Milestone
75 Patron Milestone
At Lloyd’s suggestion, I started a conversation over on the Hangout about what we’d like to see for a 75 Patron milestone. And at High Command’s suggestion, I’m making a post here. Feel free to comment below!
For my part, I’d like to see a free roll or two on the player’s HJ table of choice.
For my part, I’d like to see a free roll or two on the player’s HJ table of choice.
Hardin and Jane
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
My mitigation of the obvious jump in power that a HJ roll might offer, I suggest the following addendum
Milestone Reward: Hero's Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result.
Additionally, I am rephrasing this from the chat
Milestone Reward: Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion.
Milestone Reward: Hero's Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result.
Additionally, I am rephrasing this from the chat
Milestone Reward: Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Radecliffe
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I agree though I'm not sure how your alternatives would work for existing characters.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Does it need to? You should be spending that bonus Patronage EP on more crack, I mean new characters. Right?Radecliffe wrote:I agree though I'm not sure how your alternatives would work for existing characters.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Good grief, I'm at four now! Although... hmmm... Gnome Techno Warrior has a nice ring to it.Tribe of One wrote:Does it need to? You should be spending that bonus Patronage EP on more crack, I mean new characters. Right?Radecliffe wrote:I agree though I'm not sure how your alternatives would work for existing characters.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Hey! You leave people with four characters alone!Tribe of One wrote:Does it need to? You should be spending that bonus Patronage EP on more crack, I mean new characters. Right?Radecliffe wrote:I agree though I'm not sure how your alternatives would work for existing characters.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
Bullet Jones
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
This very much.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
I really, really do not like the idea of giving extra rolls of HJ. It is effectively from 5 to 10 experience.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
What about a custom Wild Card Edge? Cool effect that won’t come into play that often but be iconic to the character. Needs to be GM approved and I. Line with existing Wild Card Edges.
Jarvis Ursus
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
While I obviously disagree, I can see the concern.RFT wrote:This very much.Tribe of One wrote:I would be strongly opposed to extra HJ rolls as a reward, but would have no problem with granting additional control over HJ rolls, via a few free rerolls, shake the table, even allowing straight up choice of result on one table, etc. Extra rolls feels like pay-to-win, extra control over existing rolls feels like granting more customization.
I really, really do not like the idea of giving extra rolls of HJ. It is effectively from 5 to 10 experience.
I think re-rolling a previous HJ roll or controlling a roll for a new character would be fine. I’d also be ok restricting it to just the gear tables, provided there is some mechanism built in to prevent ending up with a piece of gear you just cannot use. I’d be less excited by this as a reward, though.
I do like High Command’s suggestion of letting you take a HJ roll in lieu of an advance quite a bit.
Hardin and Jane
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
What about a second Signature Item?
Perhaps Humble needs a Signature item and I can get it from Patreon?
Perhaps Humble needs a Signature item and I can get it from Patreon?
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I'm not opposed to allowing a HJ roll in place of an advance. Seems risky though.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
We could up it to a Major Hindrance, but that seems punitive, not fun and weird.Tribe of One wrote:I'm not opposed to allowing a HJ roll in place of an advance. Seems risky though.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Someone in the chat floated the idea of allowing an “Always a Hero” Advance. I thought that was a cool idea, too.
Hardin and Jane
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Minor Hindrances are fun. Majors are a bit tougher.High Command wrote:We could up it to a Major Hindrance, but that seems punitive, not fun and weird.Tribe of One wrote:I'm not opposed to allowing a HJ roll in place of an advance. Seems risky though.
Hardin and Jane
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Milestone Reward: Hero's Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion (Alternate)
You gain the Friend of the Legion Edge (5 EP Value)
You may ignore Rank requirements for any edge you qualify for for one advance for one character. (5-10 EP Value, call it 5 EP)
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion (Alternate)
You gain the Friend of the Legion Edge (5 EP Value)
- Trusted Friend of the Legion
Requirements: Veteran, Connections (Tomorrow Legion), Charisma +1
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. This edge may be taken twice. The second time it adds an additional +1 to effective Charisma and increases the base pay increase to 15%.
You may ignore Rank requirements for any edge you qualify for for one advance for one character. (5-10 EP Value, call it 5 EP)
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Radecliffe
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Legion pay? What is this you speak of?
Not really interested in taking on more hindrances for a roll on a table where I might not get anything I actually wanted. Given the risk of getting a sub-otpimal result adding a hindrance to that doesn't seem attractive to me. Of course, I have no problem with it being an available reward for those that would choose it.
I do like the always a hero advance. A good opportunity to pick up an edge or power that I just couldn't quite squeeze in during character creation or something that I didn't even realize I needed/wanted until it was too late. Of course RFT's respec idea helps in that regard too. The always a hero option might even be better if there was that one thing you wanted to add.
Not really interested in taking on more hindrances for a roll on a table where I might not get anything I actually wanted. Given the risk of getting a sub-otpimal result adding a hindrance to that doesn't seem attractive to me. Of course, I have no problem with it being an available reward for those that would choose it.
I do like the always a hero advance. A good opportunity to pick up an edge or power that I just couldn't quite squeeze in during character creation or something that I didn't even realize I needed/wanted until it was too late. Of course RFT's respec idea helps in that regard too. The always a hero option might even be better if there was that one thing you wanted to add.
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I reserve the right to grumble imeffectively about the Always a Hero option.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
There are already EP menu items for bumping the table, as well as for Always A Hero after character creation; these just offer something for Patrons that don't overwhelm and bypass what non-patrons can have (which INCLUDES Always a Hero options)Radecliffe wrote:Legion pay? What is this you speak of?
Not really interested in taking on more hindrances for a roll on a table where I might not get anything I actually wanted. Given the risk of getting a sub-otpimal result adding a hindrance to that doesn't seem attractive to me. Of course, I have no problem with it being an available reward for those that would choose it.
I do like the always a hero advance. A good opportunity to pick up an edge or power that I just couldn't quite squeeze in during character creation or something that I didn't even realize I needed/wanted until it was too late. Of course RFT's respec idea helps in that regard too. The always a hero option might even be better if there was that one thing you wanted to add.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Ndreare
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I am still oppressed too extra rolls on the tables.
But I like -
Respec option
Extra character slot
Second Signature Item
Another Coupon
Other things that can be had by players who are not patrons
But I like -
Respec option
Extra character slot
Second Signature Item
Another Coupon
Other things that can be had by players who are not patrons
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
- Pender Lumkiss
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Best suggestion out of the bunch by far!Egil Skallgrim wrote:What about a custom Wild Card Edge? Cool effect that won’t come into play that often but be iconic to the character. Needs to be GM approved and I. Line with existing Wild Card Edges.
Here is a stab:
Tomorrows Legion: No matter where you are or what foe you are facing take comfort by the fact that the tomorrow legion exists not only within your comrades but in unexpected places. A new tomorrow is coming and you are at the forefront leading that charge. When the opportune moment arises the spirit of a greater tomorrow ensures that the amazing is going to occur. Maybe it is the timely arrival of a glitterboy, or a helping hand of an Apok. It could very well be a true atlantean is slumming nearby and feels like she should pitch in unexpectedly during the fight. Maybe even a greedy dragon spares a moment from counting his horde to give you some words of wisdom. Or it could just be that in the crucible of combat you realize how much that glimmer of a better tomorrow means to you. When delt a joker add your wild die to your trait rolls in addition to any other joker benefits. In addition any raise damage is treated as a d10 instead of the normal d6. This edge was decreed by Lord Coake and Dahara Hammerheart to be bestowed on all legionaries and their associates for their unwavering patronage and dedication to making the dream of tomorrow a reality. This edge also stacks with other wild card edges.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Yes, exactly something like this. I like it. Having it stack with other wild card edges is a must, I think.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Brilliant. I like this.Pender Lumkiss wrote:Best suggestion out of the bunch by far!Egil Skallgrim wrote:What about a custom Wild Card Edge? Cool effect that won’t come into play that often but be iconic to the character. Needs to be GM approved and I. Line with existing Wild Card Edges.
Here is a stab:
Tomorrows Legion: No matter where you are or what foe you are facing take comfort by the fact that the tomorrow legion exists not only within your comrades but in unexpected places. A new tomorrow is coming and you are at the forefront leading that charge. When the opportune moment arises the spirit of a greater tomorrow ensures that the amazing is going to occur. Maybe it is the timely arrival of a glitterboy, or a helping hand of an Apok. It could very well be a true atlantean is slumming nearby and feels like she should pitch in unexpectedly during the fight. Maybe even a greedy dragon spares a moment from counting his horde to give you some words of wisdom. Or it could just be that in the crucible of combat you realize how much that glimmer of a better tomorrow means to you. When delt a joker add your wild die to your trait rolls in addition to any other joker benefits. In addition any raise damage is treated as a d10 instead of the normal d6. This edge was decreed by Lord Coake and Dahara Hammerheart to be bestowed on all legionaries and their associates for their unwavering patronage and dedication to making the dream of tomorrow a reality. This edge also stacks with other wild card edges.
Thrudh Zebrem
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Milestone Reward: Hero's Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Wildcard Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a Wildcard Edge of their choice, ignoring rank requirements. (10 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion (Alternate)
You gain the Friend of the Legion Edge (5 EP Value)
You may ignore Rank requirements for any edge you qualify for for one advance for one character. (5-10 EP Value, call it 5 EP)
For the record, I will oppose respec as an option every time. That doesn't mean I can't be overruled, it just means I don't like it as an option unless it is first available to everyone. And even then, I'm still not fond of it. This seems like the sort of thing a GM and a player can just talk over.
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a roll on the non-gear hero's Journey table of their choice. In addition, the player must write an interlude and work with their GM to include a new minor Hindrance that fits with that interlude and Hero's Journey Result. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Wildcard Advance
A player with this reward may trade one normal advance (for one character) for a Wildcard Edge of their choice, ignoring rank requirements. (10 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. (5 EP Value)
Milestone Reward: Trusted Friend of the Legion (Alternate)
You gain the Friend of the Legion Edge (5 EP Value)
- Trusted Friend of the Legion (note, this would be added to the House Rules if this version is used)
Requirements: Veteran, Connections (Tomorrow Legion), Charisma +1
You gain a +2 to Charisma when dealing with the Tomorrow Legion's official apparatus, and gain an extra 10% in base Legion pay. This does not apply to bonuses paid by the Legion. This edge may be taken twice. The second time it adds an additional +1 to effective Charisma and increases the base pay increase to 15%.
You may ignore Rank requirements for any edge you qualify for for one advance for one character. (5-10 EP Value, call it 5 EP)
For the record, I will oppose respec as an option every time. That doesn't mean I can't be overruled, it just means I don't like it as an option unless it is first available to everyone. And even then, I'm still not fond of it. This seems like the sort of thing a GM and a player can just talk over.
I'd just as soon see this cleaned up into a normally available edge.Pender Lumkiss wrote:Tomorrows Legion: No matter where you are or what foe you are facing take comfort by the fact that the tomorrow legion exists not only within your comrades but in unexpected places. A new tomorrow is coming and you are at the forefront leading that charge. When the opportune moment arises the spirit of a greater tomorrow ensures that the amazing is going to occur. Maybe it is the timely arrival of a glitterboy, or a helping hand of an Apok. It could very well be a true atlantean is slumming nearby and feels like she should pitch in unexpectedly during the fight. Maybe even a greedy dragon spares a moment from counting his horde to give you some words of wisdom. Or it could just be that in the crucible of combat you realize how much that glimmer of a better tomorrow means to you. When delt a joker add your wild die to your trait rolls in addition to any other joker benefits. In addition any raise damage is treated as a d10 instead of the normal d6. This edge was decreed by Lord Coake and Dahara Hammerheart to be bestowed on all legionaries and their associates for their unwavering patronage and dedication to making the dream of tomorrow a reality. This edge also stacks with other wild card edges.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
What if you got two rolls on the table and kept whichever you liked best? This wouldn’t be the same as the two-for-one trade rule (you wouldn’t trade both rolls for a single result of your choice), but it would keep the randomness for those who find that fun while also mitigating the risk of a roll result that doesn’t fit your character build.Radecliffe wrote:Legion pay? What is this you speak of?
Not really interested in taking on more hindrances for a roll on a table where I might not get anything I actually wanted. Given the risk of getting a sub-otpimal result adding a hindrance to that doesn't seem attractive to me. Of course, I have no problem with it being an available reward for those that would choose it.
I do like the always a hero advance. A good opportunity to pick up an edge or power that I just couldn't quite squeeze in during character creation or something that I didn't even realize I needed/wanted until it was too late. Of course RFT's respec idea helps in that regard too. The always a hero option might even be better if there was that one thing you wanted to add.
Hardin and Jane
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
As to rolls on the HJ table it is time again for my diatribe of hate...
It is a simple dichotomy that can be answered with a yes or no question:
Are all the results on Heroes Journey Equal?
IMHO they are not equal and I will vote against it Everytime.
It is a simple dichotomy that can be answered with a yes or no question:
Are all the results on Heroes Journey Equal?
Yes - If Yes, then what rational reason is there to force someone to roll other than to force your play preference on others?
No - If No, then acknowledge that random rolls create inherently superior combinations for some characters and inherently inefficient builds for others. This is then a flaw in the system.
IMHO they are not equal and I will vote against it Everytime.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I get where you’re coming from. I do. The HJ rolls don’t seem equal to me, either, but I don’t think it follows that the inequality is inherently a flaw. I enjoy a little randomness in character creation; it makes things a little more exciting for me, and I’ve definitely had instances where a HJ result I never would have chosen has added a fun element to the characters I play.RFT wrote:As to rolls on the HJ table it is time again for my diatribe of hate...
It is a simple dichotomy that can be answered with a yes or no question:
Are all the results on Heroes Journey Equal?
Yes - If Yes, then what rational reason is there to force someone to roll other than to force your play preference on others?
No - If No, then acknowledge that random rolls create inherently superior combinations for some characters and inherently inefficient builds for others. This is then a flaw in the system.
IMHO they are not equal and I will vote against it Everytime.
Hardin is an excellent example; I never would have chosen a Wild Card Edge for him (they just don’t come up in play that often). But in his first combat, he pulled a joker and one-shotted a big-bad (sorry about that, RFT; it looked like you put some real work into that guy), which is one of the most exciting things I’ve done as a player in SR. That would not have happened without a random result on the HJ.
I do like the idea of some way to mitigate risk. I’ve talked over some rolls with GMs who have let me re-roll results that just didn’t work (Hardin again: he ended up with 3 different vehicles after all his HJ and F&G Table rolls, which is excessive, and RFT let me re-roll those), which I think is the best way to go. Having two rolls and picking your favorite of the two is, I think, a pretty good mechanic for that, too. Otherwise, just working things out with the GM on a case-by-case basis has been a good way to go for me. Everyone wants to have fun, here, and the tables are supposed to help with that.
TLDR: The HJ tables aren’t all equal and the randomness is not always fair, but I find them fun anyway.
Hardin and Jane
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I have nothing against HJ rolls being an option unless it is the only option because I have absolutely no interest in using them outside character creation.
Right now my favorite option is the free Always A Hero advance. I like the respec idea too though it may be to expensive an option for the milestone. Though if the cost becomes per change and it is made part of the EP menu then one free change would become a reasonable option for me.
In the end if there is no consensus I'm cool with another coupon too.
Right now my favorite option is the free Always A Hero advance. I like the respec idea too though it may be to expensive an option for the milestone. Though if the cost becomes per change and it is made part of the EP menu then one free change would become a reasonable option for me.
In the end if there is no consensus I'm cool with another coupon too.
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I am A-okay with you having that opinion, just as I think the idea of any sort of formalized respec outside the confines of GM-Player interaction is a supremely bad idea. But what you (and others) see as an inequality I (and others still) see as flavor. And as I mentioned, you have the ability through EP - which everyone can earn - to manipulate up or down the result you get. This turns an Aquatic Mode upgrade into a Ranged Data Finder or Bionic Strength Augmentation. Or it turns +2 Common Knowledge and +2 Survival and Streetwise into +2 Charisma and Knowledge (Politics) at a d8. Or alternately, a d8 in Knowledge (Electronics) and a +1 to repair electronics. Enough EP can turn it Into the Linguist Edge or Knowledge (Battle) d8 and the Command Edge. Yes, that is additional EP to ensure you get the best use out of a benefit, but it's not unreasonable. It's 5-10 EP to do so, so personally I'd make the best of it, but that also depends on just how important that is. Further, it can be traded in for more EP. So no one loses.RFT wrote:As to rolls on the HJ table it is time again for my diatribe of hate...
It is a simple dichotomy that can be answered with a yes or no question:
Are all the results on Heroes Journey Equal?IMHO they are not equal and I will vote against it Everytime.
Yes - If Yes, then what rational reason is there to force someone to roll other than to force your play preference on others?
No - If No, then acknowledge that random rolls create inherently superior combinations for some characters and inherently inefficient builds for others. This is then a flaw in the system.
And to be honest, as a GM, if one of my Fighting Joes took this and their result simply did not work, we would simply rework it or reroll it until it did! The GM has the power to make final determination here as I see it, and should work with the player to ensure they have fun with the process. "Man that roll of 9 on Education got you a benefit you already have. You were flip-flopping between it and Experience and Wisdom, how about you take the 9 on Experience and Wisdom instead - that gives you Quick or Level Headed. But I expect that interlude to be at least four paragraphs. And the hindrance needs to more than a quirk." Hence, me harping on how much NEEDS to be left to the GM and Player to work out.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Ndreare
- Savage Siri
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Hardin wrote:...I don’t think it follows that the inequality is inherently a flaw. I enjoy a little randomness in character creation; it makes things a little more exciting for me...
Both of these are acknowledging it is a play preference thing and fit solidly in the enforcing your preferred play style on others. The assumption should have been to select what makes sense for your character, or if you like the spice of randomness, then roll. But by reversing the assumption and putting a punitive 50% tax on the idea Sean/Ross/Clint introduce a terrible thing into Savage Worlds called a Concept Tax where you are punished or taxed for having a concept with no room for randomness the past. In the end it is absurd, because it is a blatant acknowledgement that players who think their who backstory up without random elements should not have characters as efficient as players who enjoy random elements in their character and get lucky. It is a design idea that should not have been introduced into Savage Worlds from the get go.High Command wrote: But what you (and others) see as an inequality I (and others still) see as flavor.
As to the idea of spending EP to rock the table. That only works for players who have large banks of EP. It is expensive and cannot be done on a first or second character. And again forces people who have a different play style to pay a punitive fee for not enjoying "old school". In the same way Sean's 2 for 1 rule does.
To then take that flawed design idea and as our 75 Patreon Reward Milestone place it again on those of us that do not like randomness in character design is essentially making the 75 milestone worthless to us.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Given the above posts, I was working under the assumption that a table roll would be an option the player could choose as their 75 Patron reward (sort of like at 50 you could choose a Signature Item or a Sidekick-type reward). I would support there being at least a couple of things for patrons to choose from, so nobody gets backed into a “reward” they don’t want.RFT wrote:To then take that flawed design idea and as our 75 Patreon Reward Milestone place it again on those of us that do not like randomness in character design is essentially making the 75 milestone worthless to us.
Hardin and Jane
- High Command
- The Savage Inquisition
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- Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
My intention is to provide options for VV and Augur to choose from based on feedback. My assumption is that multiple options will be available. Coupon exists, no need to recreate it here. Same for an account.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Ndreare
- Savage Siri
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Multiple options would be great. Then those who like could have the HJ roll and those who don't could have another option.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
- Pender Lumkiss
- Diamond Patron
- Posts: 3648
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
Field Team Six Bennies
- Jude Maverick
- Diamond Patron
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:17 am
- Location: Chicago suburbs
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Why not make the Patron Milestone rewards cumulative, like the Patron Levels are? So the list for 75 will include the 50 milestone reward, the 60 reward, and a new 75 reward(s) to choose from. Jude would benefit from another HJ roll. His F&G rolls made him very different (way smarter!) from what I imagined, but I can't really think of a signature item he needs. And another free character account is always cool. Same with the coupons.
Character Tracker
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I believe there is significant resistance to 'Patron Only' things of that nature. It's got to be something that can be obtained with a reasonable EP investment.Pender Lumkiss wrote:75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
I do like Matthew's suggestion--making it possible with each successive Patron Milestone to buy either the new Milestone reward, or one of the prior level rewards. This makes 'dud' options (such as HJ rolls for players who dislike randomness) less of a concern.
- Pender Lumkiss
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
If Patrons are helping to pay for the site why not give them something others cannot have? I just don't understand why the resistance. They litterally pay so we can have fun, they deserve a nice perk that cannot be obtained from not paying.
Field Team Six Bennies
- Radecliffe
- Diamond Patron
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- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:18 pm
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Patron only items can leave some feeling that this is a pay to win kind of site. I don't really understand the concept of winning in a rpg setting (at least vs other players) but I can understand that some may feel that way. By making Patron rewards something that anyone can buy with EP but making the Patron version either cheaper or for free allows Patrons to be rewarded for their support without creating an us vs. them mentality. For the long term health of the site I really think this is the best policy.Pender Lumkiss wrote:If Patrons are helping to pay for the site why not give them something others cannot have? I just don't understand why the resistance. They litterally pay so we can have fun, they deserve a nice perk that cannot be obtained from not paying.
- Maximilian
- Silver Patron
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I was under the impression that all new patrons immediately get the benefit of previous milestones, and all current patrons gain the benefit of the new milestone. Is that not the case?Freemage wrote:I believe there is significant resistance to 'Patron Only' things of that nature. It's got to be something that can be obtained with a reasonable EP investment.Pender Lumkiss wrote:75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
I do like Matthew's suggestion--making it possible with each successive Patron Milestone to buy either the new Milestone reward, or one of the prior level rewards. This makes 'dud' options (such as HJ rolls for players who dislike randomness) less of a concern.
Maximilian
- Radecliffe
- Diamond Patron
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
I think he means you could take a previous reward again. Take a second character unlock, for example or another Patron/Signature item.Maximilian wrote:I was under the impression that all new patrons immediately get the benefit of previous milestones, and all current patrons gain the benefit of the new milestone. Is that not the case?Freemage wrote:I believe there is significant resistance to 'Patron Only' things of that nature. It's got to be something that can be obtained with a reasonable EP investment.Pender Lumkiss wrote:75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
I do like Matthew's suggestion--making it possible with each successive Patron Milestone to buy either the new Milestone reward, or one of the prior level rewards. This makes 'dud' options (such as HJ rolls for players who dislike randomness) less of a concern.
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
The only thing here I would be resistant to would be the extra character slot not counting against the total. I thought that was a cool perk for the 50 milestone, but it should probably start counting toward character slots if you cash in more than one.Freemage wrote:I believe there is significant resistance to 'Patron Only' things of that nature. It's got to be something that can be obtained with a reasonable EP investment.Pender Lumkiss wrote:75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
I do like Matthew's suggestion--making it possible with each successive Patron Milestone to buy either the new Milestone reward, or one of the prior level rewards. This makes 'dud' options (such as HJ rolls for players who dislike randomness) less of a concern.
Hardin and Jane
- Daniel
- Daniel (Lars)
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- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
- Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Unlock: 1EP to 1XP transfer. Ie spend your EP on XP. Lol. Maybe not.
Maybe just change a boring yellow name to a cool color.
Maybe just change a boring yellow name to a cool color.
- Hans Greuber
- Diamond Patron
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
If there was some way to change a post's originator to another of your characters, that would make a great option for the reward.
- Radecliffe
- Diamond Patron
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
That seems unnecessary and against the spirit of the intent of the Patron rewards in my opinion. It also would make it possible to just skip the python lump that is the fourth slot and I don't think that is the intent either. That would make one of those free slots potentially worth 20 EP.Hardin wrote:The only thing here I would be resistant to would be the extra character slot not counting against the total. I thought that was a cool perk for the 50 milestone, but it should probably start counting toward character slots if you cash in more than one.Freemage wrote:I believe there is significant resistance to 'Patron Only' things of that nature. It's got to be something that can be obtained with a reasonable EP investment.Pender Lumkiss wrote:75 is no joke. If a wild card edge is not an option, what about a suit of glitterboy armor? Some kind of special patron only GB?
I do like Matthew's suggestion--making it possible with each successive Patron Milestone to buy either the new Milestone reward, or one of the prior level rewards. This makes 'dud' options (such as HJ rolls for players who dislike randomness) less of a concern.
- Ndreare
- Savage Siri
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Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Your GM can do this is he see you scene post as another character.Hans Greuber wrote:If there was some way to change a post's originator to another of your characters, that would make a great option for the reward.
VV tried working with that, but it was not used friendly.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
- Daniel
- Daniel (Lars)
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- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
- Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)
Re: 75 Patron Milestone
Or, just say'n, become a GM Hans and have Powers!
Like best part is there is no Power Point cap and its endless spellcasting and rainbows when you are a GM.
Edit: Savage Rifts Lottery ... Each Person gets a ticket - Patron members get 2 tickets. Some one wins EP each Quarter. Say 100 EP!! or 20.... dunno.
Like best part is there is no Power Point cap and its endless spellcasting and rainbows when you are a GM.
Edit: Savage Rifts Lottery ... Each Person gets a ticket - Patron members get 2 tickets. Some one wins EP each Quarter. Say 100 EP!! or 20.... dunno.