Rob's Quick Combat

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Ndreare
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Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

For my home games and games on Roll20 I use a hybrid of Mass Battles and Quick Combat. It allows for representing there is always a Risk, but there is room for improvement in the system.

A couple other Game Masters have recognized the system and offered some improvements. So here is the current version and a place to discuss it so all groups can contribute instead of one at a time.


REVISED VERSION

Savage Quick Combat
Useful for when the players are wading through masses of enemies before getting to the Big Bad Guy or just when you want to let the players shine.

Steps: the following is the Order of Operations for a Quick Combat.
  1. Scene Modifier
  2. Player Character Options (Resources Spent)
  3. Quick Combat Roll
  4. Describe outcome (Narrative)
1. Scene Modifier (if any): The scene modifier should be determined by the GM. This modifier takes into account all of the edges, numbers, superiority or inferiority of forces. (Typically -2 is the standard starting level.)

2. Player Character Options: this will allow you the Player Character to have more control over the results of Quick Combat, Mass Combat or Quick Battle without having to use Bennies. You may use Bennies as normal.

Resources Spent: As a default your character spends 4 Power Points or 8 rounds. Before rolling declare if you would like to have your character risk more or expend more resources for a better chance of success. Note: you must have the resources to spend them.
  • -2: Conserve your energy - Believing it may be an easy battle you accept -2 to your roll in exchange for spending 1/2 (rounded down) the resources. However, your character receives a free soak roll versus any wounds taken from failure.
  • +0: In The Fight - Wanting to stay on top of things you fight like a professional. You roll without an additional modifier for the default resource cost.
  • +2: Serious Business - You do not play around and do what you have to in order to ensure victory, even when it requires risking yourself. You may double the resources spent, or accept 1 Fatigue or 1 Wound to gain a bonus of +2 to this roll.
  • +4: No Matter The Cost - When Battle comes you go all in, winning no matter the personal cost. You may triple the resources spent, or accept 2 Fatigue or 2 Wounds to gain a bonus of +4 to this roll.
3. Quick Combat Roll:
  • Critical Failure (-1): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 2 wounds. In addition he accidentally inhibits another players efforts reducing the number of successes for the group by 1. (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Failure (+0): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 1 Wound (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Success (+1): The hero fights well and adds +1 to success to his team’s efforts. He adds 1 success to his side’s battle. Though the dangers of the battle put him at risk of receiving a serious wound. Your hero must make a Vigor roll (no penalties), Failure he suffers a wound, on success he suffers no wound.
  • Raise (+2): The hero wreaks havoc, slaying enemy leaders and destroying important assets. He adds 2 successes to his side’s battle. Escaping the dangers of battle he finds himself uninjured. In addition you gain a Benny
  • Two or More Raises (+3): The warrior covers himself in glory! Many foes fall before him and his success inspires his allies to fight like demons. His efforts add +3 (or more) to his side’s successes and he emerges from the fight unscathed. The character may also reduce another player's Critical Failure result to a normal failure if he narrates how he interfered. In addition you gain a Benny, or things lined up well for you, your character was able to conserve resources more than expected, as a result regain half of the resources spent for this roll, if you don't take the bennie.
4. Narrative: You then do your best to narrate the result of your roll to make your character seem as awesome as possible.

For reference Savage Worlds Quick Combat in available on the Pinnacle Entertainment Web Site.
Out with the Old
Savage Quick Combat
Useful for when the players are wading through massses of enemies before getting to the Big Bad Guy or just when you want to let the players shine.

Steps: the following is the Order of Operations for a Quick Combat.
  1. Scene Modifier
  2. Player Character Options (Resources Spent)
  3. Quick Combat Roll
  4. Describe outcome (Narrative)
1. Scene Modifier (if any): The scene modifier should be determined by the GM. This modifier takes into account all of the edges, numbers, superiority or inferiority of forces. (Typically -2 is the standard starting level.)

2. Player Character Options: this will allow you the Player Character to have more control over the results of Quick Combat, Mass Combat or Quick Battle without having to use Bennies. You may use Bennies as normal.

Resources Spent: Must be declared before rolling and to spend PPE or Rounds you must have a minimum of 2 PPE/ROUNDS per die.
  • -2: Conserve your energy - Believing it may be an easy battle you spend 0 Fatigue, 1d6 Power Points or 2d6 Payload.
  • +0: In The Fight - Wanting to stay on top of things you fight like a professional you spend 0 Fatigue, 2d6 Power Points or 3d6 Payload.
  • +2: Serious Business - You do not play around and do what you have to to ensure victory spending 1 Fatigue, 1 Extra Wound, 4d6 Power Points or 6d6 Payload.
  • +4: No Matter The Cost - When Battle comes your go all in winning no matter the cost spending 2 Fatigue, 2 Extra Wounds, 6d6 Power Points or 9d6 Payload.
    Note: Fatigue spent in this way can only recover with 1 hour of rest and cannot be healed by Succor. Wounds used in this way suffer their normal wound modifier or -2 whichever is higher for recovery.
3. Quick Combat Roll: Each turn your character will use either 2d6 Power Points or 3d6 uses of Ammunition and roll for Quick Battle.
  • Critical Failure (-1): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 1d3+1 wounds. In addition he accidentally inhibits another players efforts reducing the number of successes for the group by 1. (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Failure (+0): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 1d3 wounds (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Success (+1): The hero fights well and adds +1 to success to his team’s efforts. He adds 1 success to his side’s battle. Though the dangers of the battle caused him to suffer 1 wound. (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Raise (+2): The hero wreaks havoc, slaying enemy leaders and destroying important assets. He adds 2 successes to his side’s battle. Escaping the dangers of battle he finds himself uninjured.
  • Two or More Raises (+3): The warrior covers himself in glory! Scores of foes fall before him and his success inspires his allies to fight like demons. His efforts add +3 to his side’s successes and he emerges from the fight unscathed. In addition he reduce another player's Critical Failure result to a normal failure if he narrates how he interfered.
4. Narrative: You then do your best to narrate the result of your roll to make your character seem as awesome as possible.

For reference Savage Worlds Quick Combat in available on the Pinnacle Entertainment Web Site.


So I am wanting feedback on improving this a bit. If more than one of us are going to use it, it should be sharp as a razor.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Ndreare
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

Pender had the idea of allow an Extreme Effort

Your character spends 3 fatigue and gains a +6!

But the character should be incapacitated at the end of the scene. I really like that idea.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

Interesting, though considerably more lethal than standard Quick Combat rules. (Serious Business + Critical Failure means rolling for Incapacitation roughly 66% of the time. No Matter the Cost and a Critical Failure means the Incapacitation roll is automatic.)

Also, while rare, there are builds out there that use Fighting without Power Points. (I've occasionally tinkered with a Combat Cyborg Martial Artist--it can be surprisingly deadly.) Even some of the AB Fighting builds don't necessarily have Powers that relate to combat. Savant (my Crazy) has Mind Reading, Divination and Clairvoyance. In a quick combat taking place in a bar, it's unlikely she'd pop off even a single Power Point.

Also, is there any penalty/downside to rolling above and beyond your ammo/PPE supply, or are you just out of ammo/juice?

The fact that most combats will average out to a -2 (on a fair fight) means that you're pretty much stuck using Serious Business at a minimum if you want to actually succeed at the roll reliably. So a Wound and a Fatigue level, just to roll at even-odds seems... extreme. And even then, if everyone rolls a success, they get a second Wound for doing well. So first round, you should be expecting everyone to walk out with a Fatigue and 2 Wounds. (Or to have multiple failed rolls, leading to d3 Wounds each.)

There's no discussion of how many successes/raises are supposed to be made to 'win', nor of how many turns things are supposed to take (though there is a reference to 'each turn', meaning that it's meant to accommodate a multi-round fight, each round of which would end as I note above, meaning at two turns on an average fight, you're probably dealing with multiple Incapacitations). A 5-round fight (the standard for Mass Battles) would pretty much be a TPK, unless everyone is draining not only their Bennies, but also dipping into their EP for auto-raises on at least some fo the rolls.

My reaction to a -2 Quick Combat using these rules, especially if told it was going to be two or three turns, would be say, "Right, retreat it is, then. Hope you planned for that." I mean, unless I've got a character with a Death Wish Hindrance.

If the scene is meant to be important enough that the characters could die in the combat, I'd rather go full tactical.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
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Ndreare
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

Paying the Wounds, Fatigue, Power Points, or Rounds are optional. The player picks if he wants to pay any of them and then which one he wants.

To address you primary concern of lethality. What if I change Failure to 1 Wound and Critical Failure to 2 wounds? Would that still be a risk you would take?



PS: I did just see a player in Shaintar PBP use three bennies to soak those wounds so I think you are right about the lethal nature.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

RFT wrote:Paying the Wounds, Fatigue, Power Points, or Rounds are optional. The player picks if he wants to pay any of them and then which one he wants.

To address you primary concern of lethality. What if I change Failure to 1 Wound and Critical Failure to 2 wounds? Would that still be a risk you would take?



PS: I did just see a player in Shaintar PBP use three bennies to soak those wounds so I think you are right about the lethal nature.
My point was that they were 'optional' in the sense of, "Go ahead and fail if you want to (and the way I read it, ammo/PPE isn't optional--variable, but you can't choose not to use an attack method like Fighting that doesn't rely on them--and even if you try to conserve them, you're really just making yourself more likely to fail, and thus take the wounds anyway). Oh, then you'll take d3 Wounds anyway." The -2 Modifier being the default for a multi-round effect (with no means given to amp it up) is, frankly, a bennie tax, and a further push for every character to take Elan.

Here's my issues:

1: Multi-'round' sequences that can inflict wounds every round (and will, on an average fight if you don't spend bennies).*
2: Requiring non-Succor-able Fatigue, as well as Wounds, to get the roll to something more manageable. Actually, I dislike most non-Succor-able Fatigue unless it's specifically from a magical effect. I don't see any reason for someone pushing themselves to excel in combat to produce exhaustion that isn't removeable between rounds.
3: The 'group difficulty' setting of the rolls--the combat monster is, as far as I can tell, at the same overall modifier as the Pacifist Body Doc.
4: The lack of any explicit options other than Shooting or Casting rolls.
5: There's a lack of clarity about how many 'rounds' a fight should take, or what the success/raise criteria are for the group. Is it measured at the end of the combat? After each round?

*: Let's say the character has a d12 in their combat skill (not all do, mind you, but I suspect if this system were in place, that would change rapidly). Let's give it a test-drive for a five-round combat (that's the baseline for both Mass Battles and Dramatic Tasks, so I'm going to use that as my baseline for this one, too):

[dice]0[/dice]
[dice]1[/dice] ACE [dice]5[/dice]
[dice]2[/dice]
[dice]3[/dice]
[dice]4[/dice]

Please note that this assumes that I've got enough Power Points/Ammo (if I'm a caster/shooter) for five rounds of In The Fight. If I run out beforehand because of bad rolls on the earlier rounds, (totally possible by the end of Round 3 for most Power-users off of a Ley Line), then my total is even worse, since I'm at an additional -2 for those rounds.

Not once did I get the "eliminate an ally's CritFail result" total of 3 Raises. Hell, I didn't even get a 2-Raise result (I'd need a 12 for that, and the highest I got, using a d12 that managed to Ace once, was an 11).

Net, I got 2 successes to my side's "total". Meanwhile, I took a Wound on each of three rounds (assuming your gentler proposal--on the original one, I took d3 Wounds on each of those rounds), and heaven help me if I failed to Soak them, since the penalties would stack up.

Now, let's say I decide to use Serious Business each of those rounds. We'll assume I have Elan, and can Extra Effort for a minimum of +3 every round, if needed

Round 1: +2 to roll (net flat roll). Still a Failure. Extra Effort Bennie makes it a Success. However, I'm now Wounded (i soak) and Fatigued (no Succor for you!).
Round 2: Fatigue from round 1 means I am now at -1. No real effect on the rolls. Still a Raise (yay!). Oh, but now I take another level of Fatigue.
Round 3: Okay, since I don't want to be incapacitated, Serious Business is out from this point forward. However, I'm now at -2 from Fatigue for each of these other three rolls. Whew--my 4 here is still a success.
Round 4: I now need a 6 on my Extra Effort Bennie to hope for a success. Even with Elan, that's about a 50/50 shot.
Round 5: And again, I spend a bennie to make this a success.

So, with extra Effort, I'm down a minimum of 4 Bennies if I want to succeed each round and soak. I end the fight with two Fatigue.

Yeah, I'd still prefer Tactical, especially for an "average difficulty" fight.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
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Radecliffe
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Radecliffe »

If this is supposed to work as Freemage suggests I have to agree that this system is way too lethal. If this is just for a single roll to represent a battle then it's still a little over the top but I assume that's because this is Rifts and it's also over the top. ;)

From reading the base rules it seems like quick combat isn't supposed to be lethal but with these modified rules even with a single roll the upgraded damage potential can potentially kill off pretty much any given character, particularly on a critical fail. I would recommend making adjustments so that on a fail there is no possibility of incapacitation unless the hero is already wounded (i.e. cap total wounds on a fail to 3) On a crit fail roll a d4 and take that many wounds OR the number of wounds they took from their player's choice option +1, whichever is higher. This at least should avoid stacking up 5 or more wounds which seems out of character as to what the intent of quick combat is for.

That's my two cents.
Radecliffe
Player: James
Active Alts: Jim Cannon, Jame Graeme, Dorn GiantSlayer, Steele


Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d10, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Pace: 8; Running Die: d8; Parry: 6; Toughness: 11(4); Strain: 6/6; Bennies 4 of 4

Skills
Agility: Athletics d8, Fighting d8, Shooting d6, Stealth d8, Thievery d8
Smarts: Common Knowledge d4, Healing d6+2, Language (American) d8, Notice d8, Occult d10, Psionics d10, Survival d10+2
Spirit: Persuasion d4

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Pender Lumkiss
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Looks good to me man. I have gone through it twice and both times a blast. I can see freemages pt on fatigue being easier to recover.
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Radecliffe
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Radecliffe »

I don't object to the concept of quick combat. I think it is an excellent idea. I just point out based on the design notes from the quick combat download that it was not designed to be quite this lethal, particularly if used several times in a row as Freemage suggests. According to Shane's notes quick combats should wear a party down, not put them in the ground.

Granted if the player and/or party succeeds this isn't going to happen on a success and probably not even on a fail if the player didn't go for a big bonus which would be a bit of an edge case regardless. But a crit fail regardless of how remote the possibility shouldn't result incapacitation and (possibly) death from a single quick combat.
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Ndreare
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

I think part of the problem is it may be too late.

But also the idea of using it multiple rounds in a row.

I can think of cases where I expect it to be backed by a Dramatic task where it would be repeated a second time. But I was using this as a Quick Combat. Kind of one roll, sure blow some Bennies. But one too and call it good.


If I did run it multiple rounds in a row I would not put a big modifier on it.



Curious though, do you believe reduction of the failure penalty to 1 Wound, or to for a critical failure would address some of the basic lethalness.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Fizzwaite Zipwidget »

Well the base rules say 1 wound for a failure and 1d3 for a critical failure. I could see bumping that to two wounds for a failure and 1d4 for a crit fail for Rifts because, you know, Rifts. Speaking just for myself and considering that this would just be used for one round my main concern is the worst case scenario. I get to make one roll which if it crit fails there is a real possibility that my character is a goner especially if I had taken a bonus for the roll and tacked on a couple extra wounds. If the number of wounds is limited to four then the main goal is still accomplished I think. Bennies will most likely be spent and resources expended and no one has to die. ;)
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

RFT wrote:I think part of the problem is it may be too late.

But also the idea of using it multiple rounds in a row.

I can think of cases where I expect it to be backed by a Dramatic task where it would be repeated a second time. But I was using this as a Quick Combat. Kind of one roll, sure blow some Bennies. But one too and call it good.


If I did run it multiple rounds in a row I would not put a big modifier on it.



Curious though, do you believe reduction of the failure penalty to 1 Wound, or to for a critical failure would address some of the basic lethalness.
Reduction of the failure penalty helps, yes. However, especially for the multi-round scenario, the 'cost' of participating needs to be lowered--where you currently have both a Fatigue and a Wound, make it one or the other (player's choice). Where you have two of each, make it two 'levels' total, which can be divided how the player wants (two wounds, two fatigue or one of each). For the Holding Back tier, the penalty to the roll is fine, but they should also gain a 'shadow bennie' to make a free soak roll if they fail. (The whole idea is that they're playing it safe, after all, at the increased risk of not adding to the group's success tally.)

Finally, take the 'no succor' bit back behind the woodshed. It can be buried next to Old Yeller.
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Ndreare
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

@Fizz,

I need to rewrite it apparently, but I thought it was clear you only pay one of the four options if you want to.


I love The idea of the Playing it Safe giving a free soak roll if you fail. That is genius.

I will have a revised writing up in a couple hours at first lunch.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Fizzwaite Zipwidget »

No, it's clear (at least to me.) I was just pointing out that the option, along with the increased wounds for failure, do make quick combat more lethal than originally intended or at least that is my view. Along the lines with what Freemage suggests I'd say make the player options bonus inflict fatigue and increased resource usage and leave the wound count to failure. Even if the fatigue can be healed via succor that still accomplishes the goal of getting the players to expend resources.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

REVISED

Savage Quick Combat
Useful for when the players are wading through masses of enemies before getting to the Big Bad Guy or just when you want to let the players shine.

Steps: the following is the Order of Operations for a Quick Combat.
  1. Scene Modifier
  2. Player Character Options (Resources Spent)
  3. Quick Combat Roll
  4. Describe outcome (Narrative)
1. Scene Modifier (if any): The scene modifier should be determined by the GM. This modifier takes into account all of the edges, numbers, superiority or inferiority of forces. (Typically -2 is the standard starting level.)

2. Player Character Options: this will allow you the Player Character to have more control over the results of Quick Combat, Mass Combat or Quick Battle without having to use Bennies. You may use Bennies as normal.

Resources Spent: As a default your character spends 4 Power Points or 8 rounds. Before rolling declare if you would like to have your character risk more or expend more resources for a better chance of success. Note: you must have the resources to spend them.
  • -2: Conserve your energy - Believing it may be an easy battle you accept -2 to your roll in exchange for spending 1/2 (rounded down) the resources. However, your character receives a free soak roll versus any wounds taken from failure.
  • +0: In The Fight - Wanting to stay on top of things you fight like a professional. You roll without an additional modifier for the default resource cost.
  • +2: Serious Business - You do not play around and do what you have to in order to ensure victory, even when it requires risking yourself. You may double the resources spent, or accept 1 Fatigue or 1 Wound to gain a bonus of +2 to this roll.
  • +4: No Matter The Cost - When Battle comes you go all in, winning no matter the personal cost. You may triple the resources spent, or accept 2 Fatigue or 2 Wounds to gain a bonus of +4 to this roll.
3. Quick Combat Roll:
  • Critical Failure (-1): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 2 wounds. In addition he accidentally inhibits another players efforts reducing the number of successes for the group by 1. (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Failure (+0): The hero is stopped by overwhelming numbers, an unfortunate tactical development, or bad fortune. He suffers 1 Wound (The Hero may spend a Bennie as usual to make a Soak roll if desired.)
  • Success (+1): The hero fights well and adds +1 to success to his team’s efforts. He adds 1 success to his side’s battle. Though the dangers of the battle put him at risk of receiving a serious wound. Your hero must make a Vigor roll (no penalties), Failure he suffers a wound, on success he suffers no wound.
  • Raise (+2): The hero wreaks havoc, slaying enemy leaders and destroying important assets. He adds 2 successes to his side’s battle. Escaping the dangers of battle he finds himself uninjured. In addition you gain a Benny
  • Two or More Raises (+3): The warrior covers himself in glory! Scores of foes fall before him and his success inspires his allies to fight like demons. His efforts add +3 (or more) to his side’s successes and he emerges from the fight unscathed. The character may also reduce another player's Critical Failure result to a normal failure if he narrates how he interfered. In addition you gain a Benny, or things lined up well for you, your character was able to conserve resources more than expected, as a result regain half of the resources spent for this roll, if you don't take the bennie.
4. Narrative: You then do your best to narrate the result of your roll to make your character seem as awesome as possible.

For reference Savage Worlds Quick Combat in available on the Pinnacle Entertainment Web Site.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Daniel
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Daniel »

I edited grammar and spelling to the previous post.

I love it Rob.

I am using it.

The only thing I hesitate on is:

Two or More Raises (+3): The warrior covers himself in glory! Scores of foes fall before him and his success inspires his allies to fight like demons. His efforts add +3 (or more) to his side’s successes and he emerges from the fight unscathed. The character may also reduce another player's Critical Failure result to a normal failure if he narrates how he interfered.

I wonder if this is too much? Maybe one or the other?

In addition you gain a Benny.
OR
Finally things lined up well for you, your character was able to conserve resources more than expected. Regain half of the resources spent for this roll.

Other than that, and I can just modify it in my game, the whole thing looks great.

So it might look like this when I use it:

Two or More Raises (+3): The warrior covers himself in glory! Scores of foes fall before him and his success inspires his allies to fight like demons. His efforts add +3 (or more) to his side’s successes and he emerges from the fight unscathed. The character may also reduce another player's Critical Failure result to a normal failure if he narrates how he interfered. In addition you gain a Benny, or things lined up well for you, your character was able to conserve resources more than expected, as a result regain half of the resources spent for this roll, if you don't take the bennie.
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Ndreare
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

I like it. I will edit your revision into my post.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Ndreare
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

Lars wrote:I love it Rob.

I am using it.
Does this mean you will use this for our current scene?
Because that would be awesome, it would make Humbles roll of 22 legitimately awesome.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I like it as well. I could see using it for the 13th or vamp game. Depending on the enemies I might make it all feed up to a kn battle roll and make it opposed vs the enemy comanders.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

There's still no mention of how 'expenditures' work for Fighting-based characters who don't use PPts. Do they just get a pass on that requirement and move on?
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

They would have the default +0 or could offer wounds or fatigue.

The base cost is the same as the Mass Battle rules.

Personally, I liked the Mass Battle rules on their own for Quick Combat but I wanted a way a player could save their Bennie's.

I do not like the quick combat rules because the guy who rolls a raise and has a narrative of shooting 20 bad guys spend less resources than the guy who rolls a Fail and does not get even one taste of glory.
I like that the resources spent are something the player controls.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Hardin »

RFT wrote:They would have the default +0 or could offer wounds or fatigue.

The base cost is the same as the Mass Battle rules.

Personally, I liked the Mass Battle rules on their own for Quick Combat but I wanted a way a player could save their Bennie's.

I do not like the quick combat rules because the guy who rolls a raise and has a narrative of shooting 20 bad guys spend less resources than the guy who rolls a Fail and does not get even one taste of glory.
I like that the resources spent are something the player controls.
I don't have anything profound to add, but as a player who has been subject to these rules, I like them quite a bit. It's nice to have a little more control over a quick combat (without getting into the minutua of declaring and rolling for every combat action).
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Hardin a Half-Elf Psi-Slinger
Parry: 5
Toughness: 10(3)
Notable Edges/Hindrances: Quick, Marksman, Wanted (Major): Coalition, Illiterate
Attributes: Agility d10, Smarts d12, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d8
Skills: Fighting d6, Shooting d10, Stealth d6, Riding d6 + 3, Notice d8, Psionics d12, Survival d6, Intimidate d8 + 3
Powers: Push (smite*) costs +1 ISP for +2 AP, ‘Kinesis (telekinesis) on a raise, gains effects of Steady Hands, Resist Energy (deflection*) gives the raise effect but is only good against energy (or partial-energy) attacks, Clear Mind (boost Trait*) costs +1 ISP to activate and has different trappings for each attribute and linked skills
Charisma: -2 (Half-elves treated as outsiders)
Equipment of Note: A Spiffy Hat (+1 to Intimidation, Rapid Recharge Edge, +2 to damage w/TW weapons or direct damage powers, Always Present)

Jane a Bandito Arms Robot Mustang
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d12+5, Vigor d12
Skills: Fighting d8, Shooting d4, Stealth d8, Swimming d6, Notice d8 + 4, Survival d6
Pace: 12 (Acc/TS 10/50)
Parry: 6
Toughness: 20(10) MDC
Notes/Special Features:
  • All-Terrain: +2 to Riding checks
  • Sensor Suite (+2 to Notice, power armor sensor package)
  • Kick does Strength + d6 Mega Damage
  • Size +2
  • Brave/Fearless
  • Expanded Detection and Security Array (Danger Sense Edge and +2 to Notice)
  • Extraction (Agility roll to break off from melee without giving a free attack)
  • Nano-Repair System
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Jude Maverick »

I like them. I just don't think they should be any more lethal than normal quick combat rules. Spending Wounds or Fatigue is fine, but don't make them any harder to heal than any other Wound or Fatigue. If part of a quick combat is to expend resources, then expending power points to heal those works just as well (unless, I suppose, someone is rocking a good Healing skill, but that doesn't get rid of fatigue).
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Jude Maverick Character Sheet
Parry: 6; Toughness: 17 (8 natural, +1 duster, 4 armor, 4 personal force field [nonmagical attacks only, ignores AP)
You Know What to Do: During the first round of combat you gain and extra card draw and +2 to your trait rolls, +2 damage, +2 pace (stacks with a joker).
Battle Hardened: +2 Soak
Brave: +2 Fear
Common Bond: Share bennies
Elan: +2 when spending Bennies
Hard to Kill: When making rolls for Incapacitation or death, ignore Wound modifiers
I Know a Guy
Strong Willed: 2 vs. Tests of Will
Trademark Weapon: +1 Shooting with JA-11
Healing Stone: 15/15 PPE
Armor: 15/15 PPE
Necklace: 9/15 PPE
Nike Airs: Teleport/Teleport Others (K. Electronics roll)
Rifle Ammo: 59 (Spare clips: 2 x 20; 1 x 16; 2 x 30; 2 x 60)
Pistol Ammo: 16 (Spare clips: 2 x 16)
Bennies: 4/7
Adventure Cards
  • We Have the Talent: You gain the benefits of an immediate Advance of your choice. You must meet any prerequisites. This benefit (new skill, increased trait, new Edge, etc.) lasts for the remainder of the session; your next actual Advance must be spent on this same benefit.
  • Enemy: Play at the beginning of the game session. A villain of the GM’s choice becomes your character’s sworn enemy and you may not soak wounds caused directly by him. Starting now, you draw an extra Adventure Card each game session until the enemy is “retired.”
  • Epiphany: Something you never understood before suddenly “clicks.” You gain a d6 in any skill you previously did not have for the remainder of this game session.
  • Speedy Gonzales: Expend this card to gain +2 to your Pace for the rest of the scene.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

Okay, I think I like the current form.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Venatus Vinco »

As an aside: I think this combat results in more wounds and fatigue than regular combat! I think I have yet to see a player get wounded in regular combat.

VV
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

Venatus Vinco wrote:As an aside: I think this combat results in more wounds and fatigue than regular combat! I think I have yet to see a player get wounded in regular combat.

VV
Yes, it does definitely more than Quick Combat and I did tone it down after the results in Shaintar seeing how much more dangerous it was for normal Savage Worlds.


PS: Out of curiosity, have you played regular SW or only Supers and Savage Rifts?
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

Jude Maverick wrote:I like them. I just don't think they should be any more lethal than normal quick combat rules. Spending Wounds or Fatigue is fine, but don't make them any harder to heal than any other Wound or Fatigue. If part of a quick combat is to expend resources, then expending power points to heal those works just as well (unless, I suppose, someone is rocking a good Healing skill, but that doesn't get rid of fatigue).
I heard this from multiple people and agree that I was wrong in my assumption and I removed that.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Venatus Vinco »

RFT wrote:PS: Out of curiosity, have you played regular SW or only Supers and Savage Rifts?
Only SR until we started Shaintair and ARES Protocol.

VV
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Tieronar »

My concern here (as someone who doesn't play RIFTS) is that this doesn't seem to take into account anything but skill. Someone who spends their starting skill points and first two advances to get d12 fighting will do better in quick combat than someone who spends 10 advances on combat edges. This doesn't take into account two weapon fighting, ambidextrous, first strike, dodge, block, sweep, marksman, etc. It also doesn't take into account things like reach, weapons with a better parry, cover, positioning, or all the things that make combat in Savage Worlds fun. SW isn't super crunchy, but the crunch is part of the game that makes it enjoyable.


Savage Worlds combat is quick already (Fast Furious Fun) so I'm not sure what this adds to the game in non-RIFTS play.
Charisma: -2; Pace: 8; Parry: 7 (9/10), -1 TO BE HIT (Skein of the Ages), Opponents at -2 Gangup against me. , Toughness: 9 (3) Bennies: 3+2+1/3 +2+1
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

The skill only argument has been made before and I have seen it myself as someone who has characters such as Echo who primary combat skill is d8.

But when the game master factors in the modifiers he normally account for that stuff in general. For example the Notice roll had the option to remove -4 from it and characters with Danger sense would not even have had to make the roll. Sometimes you put in other modifiers, but the idea is to save time so the general battle works out. A perfectly even battle should be -2, which means the players will win, but at the cost of taking some wounds themselves. A greatly outmatched battle might be at much higher number where players think fleeing is the better part of valor.

So for example i assumed as 8 Wild Card Novices your battle versus 20 Experienced Soldiers was an even match and gave it a -2. In the end the time it would have taken to roll for attacks, counter attack and fighting back and forth would have been about 3 posts before getting to aftermath. Here it came out as one post and was over with that quickly. For rounds with Tieronar in it I can definitely put more detail into which edges are helpful or not and allowing modifiers. But in general those are the kinds of things that would provide a +1 to the individuals with those edges.

Perhaps something like: +1 per Combat/Wild Card Edge is fair, but then you would apply the same to the enemy.

For Reference Here is the Original Rules by Shane Hensley: https://www.peginc.com/store/savage-wor ... bat-rules/
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Jude Maverick »

I guess I tend to always build my characters skill first. Edges come more as flavor once combat ability is maxed. Maybe that's a carry over from D&D, though, where you up your Strength (or Dex) first, then grab feats. Different choices, I guess. In fact, it was building my Deadlands characters that was kind of getting me out of the idea of taking ability advances for my Hindrance points (though I still took one for my +5 XP first Advance usually).
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Freemage
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Freemage »

Tieronar wrote:My concern here (as someone who doesn't play RIFTS) is that this doesn't seem to take into account anything but skill. Someone who spends their starting skill points and first two advances to get d12 fighting will do better in quick combat than someone who spends 10 advances on combat edges. This doesn't take into account two weapon fighting, ambidextrous, first strike, dodge, block, sweep, marksman, etc. It also doesn't take into account things like reach, weapons with a better parry, cover, positioning, or all the things that make combat in Savage Worlds fun. SW isn't super crunchy, but the crunch is part of the game that makes it enjoyable.


Savage Worlds combat is quick already (Fast Furious Fun) so I'm not sure what this adds to the game in non-RIFTS play.
Well, the original QC rules were specifically for combats that need to happen narratively, but where you don't want a single bad die roll to result in a chump character death (the goblin with the infinitely acing dagger scenario).

If immediately prior to the Big Boss fight, they can serve to soften up the party a bit (since they might come into the final battle with a Wound, or even badly injured if they CritFailed). Otherwise, they're mostly meant to to be an opportunity for the players to show themselves being awesome, and maybe pick up a free bennie. (I usually let characters benefit from 'always on' Edges and equipment, for pretty much this reason; likewise, if you can describe a way for a situational Edge, like Marksman, to apply to an entire fight--say, there's a high tower you could scale to then stay motionless while picking off your enemies--then I count those, too.)

This version, in turn, tries to straddle the space between the original QC and full-on tactical combat. It's slightly more granular, but it does have the issue of being potentially very deadly (the odds of failing an early roll in a five-round combat are high enough to put people at actual risk of cascade failure, especially if the PCs are not given an opportunity to heal up between rounds.
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Pender Lumkiss
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I don't even think this is a SR vs SW thing. It is probably more about table top vs PBP. In play by post the narrative exchange of quick combat is just easier to resolve. However, using it for everything does seem to do a disservice in a way to the players and villains that might be complex and varied. A simple -2 or -4 cannot account for everything. I would think a mixture of both would be nessesary(to my own chagrin because a tactical combat feels like more work on the GM than table top, and it i not as clear to the players what is happening when). we have a few different Types of combat rolling arround. I think they each have a place.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Tribe of One »

I think a mix combats is essential -- some quick, some with all options on the table -- but PbP is definitely a different beast. Unless you have some interesting wild cards and terrain involved, just go with a quick combat and the PCs will likely make it interesting with their narratives. If it makes sense for their to be combat there, it still serves a purpose story-wise as well as using resources. Save the more complex combats for the big moments, and try to make sure they're special.

When I first started playing Savage Worlds, I thought the idea of one combat per adventure/One Sheet was crazy, especially coming from D&D/Pathfinder where the assumption is more like 3-5 per adventuring day. Tweaking that, I'm finding that four skill challenges or quick combats plus one full combat feels about right for each mini-arc/One Sheet.
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Tieronar
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Tieronar »

Interesting.

I run a lot of one sheets and one shots. (In Western NY, we have Savage Sunday twice a month, which is a day with 2-4 tables of one shots in 4 hour slots)

I normally run 2 combats and one heist or downbeat per adventure. I write an extra one as well, in case the heroes do well. (Like in the Spactre of the Stage adventure where they killed the mid-game Rusalki in one, 8 wound blow.)

I recently (this weekend) ran two Savage Star Wars Lego games at Con on the Cob and we had two combats in the first one, with a investigation interlude and an opening mini chase. The second one had an opening ambush combat, a mid game Heist and combat, and a end of game starship fight.

Both were 4 hour slots and the second one was over in 3 1/2 hours.

I can see where Shane's rules could be useful from a narrative perspective, but I think its more of a story effect. I don't like it for regular combats. I think it waters down the game a bit too much because it's all about one die roll and one skill. I think it takes some of the fun away.

But, like I said, I will go with whatever everyone else wants.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Luca Blake »

For some more action packed and cinematic style games I use many more ‘mook’ style bad guys. Still plenty dangerous but a shaken result drops them.

In combat I’ll make my enemy groupings and the players have a choice: Target the mooks as a group or any specific Extra within. Wild Cards are generally their own ‘group’.

When attacking a group of mooks for every raise on the damage dealt over the mook Toughness results in up to a third mook being dropped per attack.
So a guy frenzying and attacking with his off hand could potentially drop 9 bad guys with those three attacks.
Sweep works normally as it’s just ‘one’ attack.

It seems to have achieved that burn through the horde cover yourselves in bloody glory vibe at my table. It also maintain the standard rules with nothing really extra special to keep track of, it also makes real big combats super fast which is a blast.
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by ZenFox42 »

Sorry for the late follow-up (I hope someone reads this), but I'm wondering what the -1,0,1,2,3 values attached to each result have to do with anything. Perhaps all PC's results are added together to determine the ultimate outcome of the quick contest? If so, when does the party "win" - on a total of 1 or better?

And, was this originally intended for a single roll (as the instructions seem to suggest), or 5 rounds of rolls as some commenters have suggested?

You might want to clarify these issues in your Revised rules. I really like the way this sounds, will have to try it out sometime soon!

Thanks!
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Re: Rob's Quick Combat

Post by Ndreare »

The way the system was designed you need to total a number of successes.

(Normally I base it off the number of players)

So for example if overcoming the challenge required 8 Successes (8 players) Then one player doing exceptionally well could offset a player who did not pull his weight.

For examples of this system being used in practice here on the site I will see if I can find some links for you.

Used in the 99 to defend refugees while being attacked by hoards of bugs.: http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=1255

Used in the crossover with 14 players here: http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?f=136&t=1691


Each time it is used it gets tweaked a little bit to make sure it fits the situation as usually a single system cannot do everything needed.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

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,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
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