Magic Items Discussion

[Pender Lumkiss]

Question: are the available poers flr enchanted items thr same as a TW item or do "enchanters" have a different spell list.

[Ndreare]

Question: are the available poers flr enchanted items thr same as a TW item or do "enchanters" have a different spell list.

I think a power list needs to be had. But the list has to be different.
Powers like Growth, Puppet, and Summon Ally are common to enchanted items. But not allowed for TW.

Anyone have an idea of powers an enchanted item cannot do?

Perhaps set it per the nature. Holy items use the Mystic List, Magic Items use the LLW list?

[Tribe of One]

I'd leave it open to any power, as long as there's a justification.

[Venatus Vinco]

I'd leave it open to any power, as long as there's a justification.

This is also my opinion.

VV

[Freemage]

Yeah. I'm still twitchy about allowing Mega-Powers to folks without the AB, but I know I'm getting outvoted there. But I'm fine with a 'power is determined by the backstory' for Enchanted Items. If we approve an Artificer IF that can build magic items, of course, they'd be limited to whatever their Power-list is, just like a TW would be.

[High Command]

As the one making that AB and the rules to support it, I agree totally Freemage. Players do not get the cool that Signature Items get. One is EP/Patreon - the other a matter of in-character time, skill and luck.

[Pender Lumkiss]

Totally get he twitchy feeling of giving mega powers to those with no ab. Go get yourself an ab and master of magic you damn muggles. Other than declaring it an appropriate major upgrade there is no other way. After thinking about it, I do think it is beyond the scope of a major upgrade to give the power access to the mega power expansion. There is already a way to do it. The way to do it is master of magic, but then of course with no ab it would not work... Well tough luck. Sometimes that is just how it goes.
Not suggesting a change by any means, but I do want to support Freemage here. I know exactly how it feels to be a lone voice. Oh and incase if anyone is wondering if this messes up any existing items. I just spent 15 min looking at the approved items. It does not appear any one has done this mega option.

[Ndreare]

I don't really see why this is a problem. The ability to add master of magic as a major upgrade is already precedented and validated by Clint. So he's saying instead of a Master of Magic and getting every major power with items he has the item gives him Master of Magic with only that one power consider it just at trapping on the master of magic Edge.

[Tribe of One]

I really don't understand this attitude that the best and most powerful gear should be reserved for casters, who already have access to various tricks (Puppet, four spells a round with Quickness, Shapeshifting and summoning, infinite power on ley lines) that put a juicer in power armor to shame. It's the biggest flaw of the PEG conversion, in my mind, and a total reversal from Palladium Rifts, where actual spellcasting (TW especially) was pretty lame and all the best and coolest gear was either tech or magic usable by anyone (hey there rune weapons). I get that the writers are AB fetishists, but that doesn't mean we have to make it worse by limiting access to items (tech and permanent enchantments) that per the source material should be superior to the TW toys, anyway. In the absence of discrete systems for weapon mods or rune magic, we're stuck adaptng the TW system, and I simply see no justification -- fluff- or power-based -- for not granting access to the full range of options.

/rant

[Pender Lumkiss]

I think you guys missed all my points. Did you not see the smily faces?

[Jude Maverick]

Not sure if I have a voice here or not, but I don't think that an item should grant a Master edge. Spellcaster picks it up, and suddenly they have a gazillion extra spells, plus the other benefits of the edge. I do think, however, that an item could grant a distinct power and its mega power, if paid for appropriately (per the rules) by a Major Upgrade. For my part, I don't want Jude to be a Master of Magic. He isn't a magic character, and I don't intend to grab an AB. But the power made sense with his skill set, and the rules specifically allowed to add a mega power. Master of Magic would be wasted. In fact, the item would be more valuable to pass off to some AB caster on the team that didn't have Master than for Jude to keep it if you put the Edge on it.

I guess I just don't understand why Mega MUST be limited. There is a pretty big limit on enchanted items anyway with the 2 major upgrade limit anyway.

[Pender Lumkiss]

Not sure if I have a voice here or not, but I don't think that an item should grant a Master edge. Spellcaster picks it up, and suddenly they have a gazillion extra spells, plus the other benefits of the edge. I do think, however, that an item could grant a distinct power and its mega power, if paid for appropriately (per the rules) by a Major Upgrade. For my part, I don't want Jude to be a Master of Magic. He isn't a magic character, and I don't intend to grab an AB. But the power made sense with his skill set, and the rules specifically allowed to add a mega power. Master of Magic would be wasted. In fact, the item would be more valuable to pass off to some AB caster on the team that didn't have Master than for Jude to keep it if you put the Edge on it.

I guess I just don't understand why Mega MUST be limited. There is a pretty big limit on enchanted items anyway with the 2 major upgrade limit anyway.

I don't think a TW item could give a character master of magic edge for him to use with spells he knows. The edges are uses with the item itself. Like you cannot make a sword with sweep, and all of a sudden sweep with a different sword. It is that specific sword that sweeps. So master of magic would only grant mega powers for that item.

By the way I am absolutely fine with the mega option, and echanted items as VV and now I think patrick have posted them. I 100% like Jude's item.

[High Command]

The caveat I put into the rules a PC would use I think would apply here: If an item includes both a power and the Master of Magic edge, then the user may use both the normal and mega version of that power. Note this would not allow the general use of the Master of Magic ability outside the confines of the enchanted item.

I actually added it because of the discussion here

[Venatus Vinco]

The caveat I put into the rules a PC would use I think would apply here: If an item includes both a power and the Master of Magic edge, then the user may use both the normal and mega version of that power. Note this would not allow the general use of the Master of Magic ability outside the confines of the enchanted item.

I wonder if SR needs an edge like we did for Temporal Magic. Something called "Mega Power" that lets a caster access the Mega Version of one power.

Why do this instead of Master of Magic (or Master Psionic) since they both cost an edge?

• Lower eligibility requirements.
  Fits certain concepts better
  Solves the TW/Magic item access to Mega powers question

Yes, master of Magic (or Master Psionic) is way better but requires a big investment of skills and edges to get there for the sake of maybe one or two powers necessary to build a cool concept.

VV

[Freemage]

Master Power (Power Edge)
Prerequisites: Arcane Background Edge, Novice
Select one Power you know; you can cast that Power as the Mega-Version as well as the regular version.

[High Command]

I could see that working well for some Core Super Power based concepts too.

[Freemage]

I could see that working well for some Core Super Power based concepts too.

That was actually what I had in mind when I wrote it up--since that's going to be the primary example of someone with just one Power who wants to be able to pull off the Mega version.

[Jude Maverick]

I like that edge, yeah. No reason some items need the bells and whistles of a full Master edge if they just want one power mega'd out.

[Ndreare]

You should copy threat to the House rules section.

I would approve it.

[High Command]

Done: http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1645