Psionic Power Armor/Robot Commando Edges

[High Command]

Current Version From Tribe, but bumped to heroic.

Arcane Mech Specialist [Professional]
Prerequisites: Seasoned, Arcane Background (any except weird Science), Power Armor Jock or Robot Jock, Spirit d8.[/color]
Some arcane warriors are trained to master their powers even while piloting power armor or giant robot armor. Psionic special forces units, Warlock Marines, and Federation of Magic Techno Wizard Power Armor pilots to name but a few. You are one of the few who have mastered using your arcane powers even while sealed away from the general environment.
You may use powers that target yourself while wearing power armor. You suffer a -2 penalty to the activation roll when doing so.

Arcane Mech Commando [Professional]
Prerequisites: Veteran, Master Psionic or Master of Magic, Arcane Mech Specialist
Practice has made perfect and the arcane practitioner has truly learned to be one with their machine. She can now focus past their enhanced armor to any target within range.
You not only know how to use your powers on yourself, you have moved on to the next level. While wearing power armor or robot armor you can use indirect powers on other targets at a -2 penalty.

Arcane Mech Union [Professional]
Prerequisites: Heroic, Arcane Mech Commando
Moving beyond simple comfort in the vehicle, when piloting your character has such a union that she often cannot tell where the boundaries between you and the vehicle are as even your own awareness has completely merged into one.
You no longer suffer a -2 penalty when using powers while piloting robot armor or power armor.


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Original

Psionic Power Armor/Robot Specialist [Professional]
Prerequisites: Veteran, Arcane Background (Psionics), Major Psionic, and either Power Armor Jock or Robot Jock.
Not needing arcane gestures, psionicists can learn to focus past their confining armor and affect those outside it.
You may use psionics while in power armor on targets outside the power armor at a -4 penalty to the psionics activation roll.

Psionic Power Armor/Robot Commando [Professional]
Prerequisites: Legendary, Psionic Power Armor Specialist
Practice has made perfect and the psionic can now focus past their enhanced armor to any target within range.
You no longer take a penalty to using psionics while in power armor.

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Created these using Rob's feedback. We're building it into some TW work, but we need the edges here listed. Comment at your leisure.

[Ndreare]

Lets edit it a little bit, because one of the players was thinking of making a Warlock Marine also.

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Arcane Mech Specialist [Professional]
Prerequisites: Veteran, Arcane Background (any except weird Science), Major Psionic or Master of Magic, and either Power Armor Jock or Robot Jock.
Some arcane warriors are trained to master their powers even while piloting power armor or giant robot armor. Psionic special forces units, Warlock Marines, and Federation of Magic Techno Wizard Power Armor pilots to name but a few. You are one of the few who have mastered using your arcane powers even while sealed away from the general environment.
You may use psionics while in power armor on targets outside the power armor at a -4 penalty to the psionics activation roll. While in Robot armor only powers with indirect trappings can be used.

Arcane Mech Commando [Professional]
Prerequisites: Legendary, Arcane Mech Specialist
Practice has made perfect and the arcane practitioner has truly learned to be one with their machine. She can now focus past their enhanced armor to any target within range.
You no longer take a penalty to using psionics while in power armor. While in Robot armor only powers with indirect trappings can be used.

[Ndreare]

As a note the 99 already has a fiat rule allowing Arcane abilities to be used in armor with a penalty equal to the Armor+Toughness provided to a maximum of -8.

[High Command]

Works for me. It actually allows for making Warlock Marine Power armor have teeth. Same for Arzno and the TW PA sold in MercTown and Stormspire.

[Tribe of One]

Hmmmmm.

Hmmmmm.

My gut reaction is "Aw hell no," but I'll push past that.

First, I see no reason for a robot version of this. Robot pilots (and passengers) already can affect themselves and other targets inside without issue, and can affect targets outside the RA with any power that isn't a physical ray/line of effect (so basically anything but a "fiery bolt" or "cone of cold" or "arcane laser beam" sort of thing). So no need for that chain at all.

AB users in Power Armor give me pause. But having built some PA pilots loaded out with tons of cybernetics, I'm not sure the equivalent Edge investment in an AB, extra powers, PP, etc. is gonna be that much worse, especially with a 1-2 Edge price of entry. Maybe something like:

Arcane Mech Specialist [Professional]
Prerequisites: Seasoned, Arcane Background (any except weird Science), Power Armor Jock (and perhaps Agility and/or Spirit minimums, since lack of spiritual attunement and clumsiness are supposed to be the reason you can't use powers in PA at baseline?).
Some arcane warriors are trained to master their powers even while piloting power armor or giant robot armor. Psionic special forces units, Warlock Marines, and Federation of Magic Techno Wizard Power Armor pilots to name but a few. You are one of the few who have mastered using your arcane powers even while sealed away from the general environment.
You may use powers that target yourself while wearing power armor. You suffer a -2 penalty to the activation roll when doing so.

Arcane Mech Commando [Professional]
Prerequisites: Veteran (or maybe Heroic; Legendary is too high), Master Psionic or Master of Magic, Arcane Mech Specialist
Practice has made perfect and the arcane practitioner has truly learned to be one with their machine. She can now focus past their enhanced armor to any target within range.
You no longer suffer a penalty when using powers on yourself while wearing power armor and can use powers on other targets at a -2 penalty.

[Tribe of One]

And very importantly, even with the above Edges, a bunch of powers are going to be pretty much useless to someone in PA or RA. Per the GM's Guide, lots of self-targeting spells like intangibility, growth/shrink, shapechange and wall walker won't work on anything larger than normal body armor, and darksight and farsight don't combine with tech sensors. Boost Trait, Quickness, Speed, Deflection, Armor ... those are going to be your go-to self-buffs. Fly if you're in Super Trooper or Samson. Invisibility is a bit of a question mark as it's no specifically addressed, but I'd treat it the same as intangibility and say it can't affect PA or RA.

So it might be worth adding a line above to specify "You may use powers that target yourself while wearing power armor, although restrictions that limit the use of certain powers on larger targets still apply" or something to that effect. I'm okay with letting a character around the prohibition against casting while in PA, but not on letting certain powers affect characters in PA.

[High Command]

Well as the PA Pilot in question, and as I don't use self buff powers or powers to buff the PA itself, none of that matters to me. I want to be able to use TK and dispel and banish at will. I want to be able to use my nullification abilities things that work at range. I don't need buffs, I have a SAMAS and a Railgun. I'm good.

As for affecting Power Armor and Robot Armor with powers, I'll grant some don't care for it. Personally I think it's a load of crap, but that's my Classic brain where not only CAN you affect vehicles and power armor and robots with invisibility and true invisibility (though it can cost you more PPE at the GM's discretion) but the first core book included TW mods with THAT concept in mind. It's literally baked into the setting. I don't get being afraid of/concerned about that. But again, that does not matter to me, as that is not what LC does. If my players were to start using powers on PA, I would just reciprocate. The players have no tools I do not have more of, so I see no need to be concerned about them using any. But that's also my response in Classic where a magic user with a certain spell can literally carry enough PPE around to summon entire armies, or to boost and buff themselves into have 10 times the number of normal attacks (I'm only vaguely exagerating here btw).

Yes I know what the GM's guide says. Its a limitation of the SW system and so be it. It doesn't mean I have to like it.

Rob added the bit about Robot Pilots and points to rules (listed under body armor) that seem to apply to PA and RA that prohibit any external use. I'll let him cite.

[Ndreare]

Thanks for contributing Tribe, i was worried we would get no feedback.

RE: robot armor
Specifically the rules Pender pointed out when i missruled in the Training Ground on letting robot pilots cast spells. Found on Page 108 it declares such is not possible. Then Clint clarifies that self targeting powers could be used.

[Tribe of One]

Yeah, to be clear, my concern is 100 percent about balancing the proposed options withing the SW/SR rules environment. Fidelity to Classic rules or fluff doesnt really enter into my thought process. Casting spells on anything PA or larger in SW just isn't really accounted for, so I'd shy away from it without *very* careful consideration.

That's an interesting catch on p. 108, which seems to contradict the more detailed rules elsewhere in TLPG and GMs Guide. I'd be inclined to ignore it for that reason, but at most it prevents a robot *pilot* from casting powers on outside targets; it says nothing about passengers, who I would say are treated just like those in vehicles and have no restrictions, beyond line of sight.

I guess for anyone who thinks the page 108 reference is valid, you could have a single Edge for robot Pilots that lets them use indirect or non-physical powers on targets outside the robot.

At the basic level, I think a one or two Edge tax to allow PA or robot Pilots to use powers is about right, considering that they must give up cybernetics and still have to abide by all the restrictions on Powers from the GM's guide.

[Ndreare]

Yeah, to be clear, my concern is 100 percent about balancing the proposed options withing the SW/SR rules environment. Fidelity to Classic rules or fluff doesnt really enter into my thought process. Casting spells on anything PA or larger in SW just isn't really accounted for, so I'd shy away from it without *very* careful consideration.

That's an interesting catch on p. 108, which seems to contradict the more detailed rules elsewhere in TLPG and GMs Guide. I'd be inclined to ignore it for that reason, but at most it prevents a robot *pilot* from casting powers on outside targets; it says nothing about passengers, who I would say are treated just like those in vehicles and have no restrictions, beyond line of sight.

I guess for anyone who thinks the page 108 reference is valid, you could have a single Edge for robot Pilots that lets them use indirect or non-physical powers on targets outside the robot.

At the basic level, I think a one or two Edge tax to allow PA or robot Pilots to use powers is about right, considering that they must give up cybernetics and still have to abide by all the restrictions on Powers from the GM's guide.

So for power armor are you saying you simply would not allow it. Or are you saying for power armor a Edge Tree would be okay as long as there is enough steps?

[Tribe of One]

Yes, I'd allow casting in power armor (with the strictures in the GM's Guide remaining as far as casting powers on the power armor), probably for two Edges -- one to let you cast on yourself, a second to also cast on others.

Robot armor, I'd ignore the p. 108 reference, which is contradictory and to me looks to be an editing artifact. But, if anyone was hung up on it, I'd add a single Edge for RA pilots (who can already cast on themselves) to let them cast on outside targets as long as the power doesn't require uninterrupted line of sight (ie. Puppet is fine, Bolt not).

[Ndreare]

Yes, I'd allow casting in power armor (with the strictures in the GM's Guide remaining as far as casting powers on the power armor), probably for two Edges -- one to let you cast on yourself, a second to also cast on others.

Robot armor, I'd ignore the p. 108 reference, which is contradictory and to me looks to be an editing artifact. But, if anyone was hung up on it, I'd add a single Edge for RA pilots (who can already cast on themselves) to let them cast on outside targets as long as the power doesn't require uninterrupted line of sight (ie. Puppet is fine, Bolt not).

Cool.

[Venatus Vinco]

Is this a round about house rules proposal

VV

[Ndreare]

I plan on giving something to this effect but only for one game.

So really we're skipping the house rules so you can still have a break while still allowing a house rule. I don't know that it matters because it will only be in one game.

I don't want to open it for house rules because I don't plan on hanging up for 3 months while people talk about it. I like tribes version I think I will go to that.

[High Command]

Is this a round about house rules proposal

VV

This is a discussion of a couple of edges.

[Pender Lumkiss]

The cadence on gthe edges seems off compared to what is in the book. Fine start with -4, but then it goes to -2, then to 0.

[Ndreare]

The cadence on gthe edges seems off compared to what is in the book. Fine start with -4, but then it goes to -2, then to 0.

Refresh, I updated Patrick's post to show the version proposed by Tribe that is likely the version we will use.

[Pender Lumkiss]

The cadence on gthe edges seems off compared to what is in the book. Fine start with -4, but then it goes to -2, then to 0.

Refresh, I updated Patrick's post to show the version proposed by Tribe that is likely the version we will use.

As long as I never have to game with a character with these two edges I am down with it.

[High Command]

I don't care for needing it to step like this, but given it gives me what I lost, let's do it.

Can we add a third that eliminates the penalty entirely?

[Ndreare]

That would fit the normal edge tree.

1st Edge lets you do something at a penalty
2nd Edge lets you do something without the above penalty.


Arcane Mech Specialist [Professional]
Prerequisites: Seasoned, Arcane Background (any except weird Science), Power Armor Jock or Robot Jock, Spirit d8.[/color]
Some arcane warriors are trained to master their powers even while piloting power armor or giant robot armor. Psionic special forces units, Warlock Marines, and Federation of Magic Techno Wizard Power Armor pilots to name but a few. You are one of the few who have mastered using your arcane powers even while sealed away from the general environment.
You may use powers that target yourself while wearing power armor. You suffer a -2 penalty to the activation roll when doing so.

Arcane Mech Commando [Professional]
Prerequisites: Veteran, Master Psionic or Master of Magic, Arcane Mech Specialist
Practice has made perfect and the arcane practitioner has truly learned to be one with their machine. She can now focus past their enhanced armor to any target within range.
You not only know how to use your powers on yourself, you have moved on to the next level. While wearing power armor or robot armor you can use indirect powers on other targets at a -2 penalty.

Arcane Mech Union [Professional]
Prerequisites: Heroic, Arcane Mech Commando
Moving beyond simple comfort in the vehicle, when piloting your character has such a union that she often cannot tell where the boundaries between you and the vehicle are as even your own awareness has completely merged into one.
You no longer suffer a -2 penalty when using powers while piloting robot armor or power armor.

[High Command]

So with Commando, you can do powers on yourself and others at -2. Specialist is just on yourself at -2 and Union is no penalty to either. Shouldn't Commando remove the penalty to self powers?

[Ndreare]

So with Commando, you can do powers on yourself and others at -2. Specialist is just on yourself at -2 and Union is no penalty to either. Shouldn't Commando remove the penalty to self powers?

Yes it should but when i was "rewriting them" to add the last edge I ruined them. Want to draft another final trio of edges. (Oh boy is that a heavy tax, but I think it is worth it, for someone who has it in mind.

[Pender Lumkiss]

You probably need to toss in something super extraneous like Spirit d8, STR d6 for the first one, then spirit d10 for the second, and spirit d12 for the last. Just looking at the cyber psichic alignment edges for some guidence.

I actually might allow something like the cyber psychic alignment edges in my games but instead of strain ignored just allow 1 power, and then a second.

[Ndreare]

... Just looking at the cyber psichic alignment edges for some guidence...

Funny, I totally should have started there. But i did not, i will check them out as soon as I get home.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Tribe of One]

You probably need to toss in something super extraneous like Spirit d8, STR d6 for the first one, then spirit d10 for the second, and spirit d12 for the last. Just looking at the cyber psichic alignment edges for some guidence.

I actually might allow something like the cyber psychic alignment edges in my games but instead of strain ignored just allow 1 power, and then a second.

Yeah, it would have been nice if casting in Power Armor wasn't simply banned, but assessed a stiff penalty (say, -6 or so). Then it would be easy to have Edges or TW mods or whatever that reduce the penalty.

[Pender Lumkiss]

You probably need to toss in something super extraneous like Spirit d8, STR d6 for the first one, then spirit d10 for the second, and spirit d12 for the last. Just looking at the cyber psichic alignment edges for some guidence.

I actually might allow something like the cyber psychic alignment edges in my games but instead of strain ignored just allow 1 power, and then a second.

Yeah, it would have been nice if casting in Power Armor wasn't simply banned, but assessed a stiff penalty (say, -6 or so). Then it would be easy to have Edges or TW mods or whatever that reduce the penalty.

For sure.