Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Locked
User avatar
Daniel
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 2167
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)

Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Daniel »

Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics - Rifts Canada Book

Q: How would it effect AB? Stain? If its TW would it create a minus to AB skill? Like when casting Magic or Psi, is it still at a neg?
A:
  • Info: One of the rarest forms of Techno-Wizardry are techno-wizard cybernetics and bionics. There is only a small number of techno-wizards on Rifts Earth that know how to make these magical cybernetics and bionics. Techno-Wizard Bionics have many advantages over normal bionics and cybernetics but are far more expensive and are very rare. Because of this, only the wealthiest can afford techno-wizard cybernetics and about ten normal cyborgs can be converted for the cost of one techno-wizard cyborg. Because of this, few armies will actually build a large number of techno-wizard cyborgs. The individual cybernetics are popular with adventures who do not want the loss a normal bionic limb causes and do not want the reduced physical abilities on a bio-system. They restrict the magical and psionic ability of the individual with magical bionics far less than normal bionics and have many features not available in normal cybernetics. Also bionic limbs are far stronger than normal cybernetics and have a strength similar to that of many supernatural creatures.

    In appearance, Techno-Wizard bionics and cybernetics look similar to normal cybernetics and bionics but normally integrate precious metals and stones into their design. They are often highly decorated and very attractive.

    Normal (non-magical) cybernetics can be integrated into magical bionics and cybernetics but cost more than they normally. Normal Cyborg Body Armor can be used but special magical armors are available as well.

    For beings who were not spell casters before their were converted, they must have the Skill of Magic Lore to uses the special abilities of the cybernetics and bionics. Enhanced strength of the T.W. Implants can still be used and conventional cybernetics can still be used normally. Some Cybernetics are available in two different styles. One requires P.P.E. each time it is used and the other is always active. Duration of the magic of the cybernetics (if not permanent) is per the level of the Techno-wizard for those with the cybernetics who are not spell casters themselves. For those who are spell casters, the level of spells for the cybernetics are either the techno-wizard or the spell caster, whichever is higher.
Can of worms opened. Achievement unlocked.
Agents of Titan Robotics Industries (AoT)
The Agents (Players)
• Jim - Sparkmort Zipwidget: Male Tinker Gnome Power Armor Ace
• Derrick - Caiden: Male Human, Momano Headhunter
• Steve (Hans) - Berk: Male Simvan Psi-Druid Monster Tamer/Rider
• Murp - Rupetta Martin: Female Human MARS Merc Soldier (X-CS)
• Freemage - Lance: Male Dog Boy Techno-Warrior (Cyber[netic] Knight)
• CSC - Ozy “Oz”: Dragon

My Accounts:
Active
  • Daniel - Admin/GM of AoT
  • Jackal - IC (Neural Intelligence) - 7th SET
  • Vi - Space Pirate - Stars Without Numbers
  • Henry Grimes - CS Commando - Rumble in the Jungle

Not Active
  • Hondo - Wild Psi Stalker
  • Burn - Mega Juicer - Juicer Uprising (On Hold)
  • Blackfish - Ogre Combat Mage - 12th SET (On Hold)
  • Setrakian - Dragon Juicer - FoM Jungles (Retired)

NPC Accounts
  • Lord Coake - NPC
  • Valentine - NPC
  • Erin Tarn - NPC
  • James T - NPC
  • Hagen Lonovich - NPC

User avatar
Hans Greuber
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: The Black Company

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Hans Greuber »

I would think that adding CYBER-PSYCHIC ALIGNMENT and IMPROVED CYBER-PSYCHIC ALIGNMENT to TW converted cybernetics would achieve a similar thing, using current rules, as would using minor upgrades to give a +1 to the Power Skill that is used by the recipient, just to offset the Strain penalty that the cybernetics generates. That would still leave some Upgrade slots to put improvements in, though the PP cost to keep them powered would add up quickly.
Hans Greuber

PPE: 15 / 30 (11 - 13 Invested into Gargamel, 1 Invested into Humble's Bracelet)
Silver Ring 1: 5 / 10
Silver Ring 2: 5 / 10
Active Powers:
None
Combat Edges/Hindrances:
Hesitant
Arcane Machinist Gadgets Left: 1 /6
Created Gadgets:
Arcane Protection (6 PPE left)
Remote Viewing (6 PPE left)
Teleport (4 PPE left)
Dispel (9 PPE left)

Bennies: 1 (+1 Z) / 3
Base Amount
+1 Zombie Bennie
-1 to Reroll Fear against Vithen Wraiths
-1 to Reroll Arcana to Find Geist among Mirror Selves

Toughness: 16 (8); Parry: 4; Pace: 5 (d4)
Golems:
Gargamel (Invested PPE, Flying Pace 12, Mind Rider)
Huey (Mind Rider), Dewey, Louis
Alvin (Mind Rider), Simon, Theodore
https://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?p=76048#p76048

Hans:
  • Fatigue: 0
    Wounds: 0
Golems (*=Mind Link, #=Winged)
  • Gargamel*#
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Huey*
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Dewey
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Louis
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Alvin*
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Simon
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Theodore
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

I've thought about this a lot.

No-strain (or even low-strain) TW cybernetics don't quite work as a player thing. Now, that said, as was noted, incorporating the Cyber-Psychic Alignment Edges would help take the sting--you could get up to two strain worth of buffer that way, at the cost of increasing the PPE drain.

Now, that said, I would say an inactive/uncharged TW cybernetic implant would be more like a conventional prosthetic. So a TW Visual Implant, for instance, would be like a glass eye when inactive--and thus, no Strain caused. Only when activating the implant would the Strain kick in--and if the CPA Edge was part of the item, then it would cancel out immediately.

The big limit, of course, is that an Edge is only effective once. So the first point of strain can be dealt with by CPA; the second requires ICPA, and after that, you've passed the limit on what can be done--it's Strain for the rest of it. Since most 'casual' cyborgs (ie, those without Upgradeable) cap out around 6-8 Strain, that's still a pretty hefty reduction, and seems to fit the intent of the flavor-text above.

Of course, Edges require a TW of the appropriate rank, so CPA requires a Seasoned TW, and ICPA needs a Veteran.

Now, that said, even with CPA using one slot, that still leaves lots of room for other enhancements--sensory implants get notice boosts, powers could be built in, etc, just like any other TW item. And I would recommend the following for cybernetics only:

Minor: Constant Draw: Cybernetic implants can be tuned to draw directly on the user's PPE. This lowers the user's PPE total by one for every point of Strain of the system. The item runs off of this energy and operates in the normal fashion for that type of cybernetic implant, but additional enhancements require the implant to be directly charged using the normal rules for TW items. This Mod has no impact on the item's Strain.

So, for instance, if you've got two levels of TW Bionic Strength Enhancement, the system would need one of the Minor mods above to be able to move normally and get the +2 Strength, at the cost of a permanent reduction of PPE by 2. It could also have additional enhancements, including additional Strength boosts--but those would require spending a PPE to charge the item for 1 hour.

Oh, one last thing--substitute Knowledge: Cybernetics for Knowledge: Engineering for 'lowest-of' roll. Since this isn't a 'free' Skill for TWs, that also feeds into the scarcity issue.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Daniel
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 2167
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Daniel »

Each level of Strain suffered would be calculated as a PP in constant use? No choice, must spend - always.

ie. I have 20 PP normally, then get 6 "strain" of TW Bionics, so my new PP is 14.

Just a thought.
Agents of Titan Robotics Industries (AoT)
The Agents (Players)
• Jim - Sparkmort Zipwidget: Male Tinker Gnome Power Armor Ace
• Derrick - Caiden: Male Human, Momano Headhunter
• Steve (Hans) - Berk: Male Simvan Psi-Druid Monster Tamer/Rider
• Murp - Rupetta Martin: Female Human MARS Merc Soldier (X-CS)
• Freemage - Lance: Male Dog Boy Techno-Warrior (Cyber[netic] Knight)
• CSC - Ozy “Oz”: Dragon

My Accounts:
Active
  • Daniel - Admin/GM of AoT
  • Jackal - IC (Neural Intelligence) - 7th SET
  • Vi - Space Pirate - Stars Without Numbers
  • Henry Grimes - CS Commando - Rumble in the Jungle

Not Active
  • Hondo - Wild Psi Stalker
  • Burn - Mega Juicer - Juicer Uprising (On Hold)
  • Blackfish - Ogre Combat Mage - 12th SET (On Hold)
  • Setrakian - Dragon Juicer - FoM Jungles (Retired)

NPC Accounts
  • Lord Coake - NPC
  • Valentine - NPC
  • Erin Tarn - NPC
  • James T - NPC
  • Hagen Lonovich - NPC

User avatar
Hans Greuber
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: The Black Company

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Hans Greuber »

Freemage wrote:Oh, one last thing--substitute Knowledge: Cybernetics for Knowledge: Engineering for 'lowest-of' roll. Since this isn't a 'free' Skill for TWs, that also feeds into the scarcity issue.
I like this idea

quote="Lars"]Each level of Strain suffered would be calculated as a PP in constant use? No choice, must spend - always.

ie. I have 20 PP normally, then get 6 "strain" of TW Bionics, so my new PP is 14.

Just a thought.[/quote]

Similar to how a Shifter binds his summonings.
Hans Greuber

PPE: 15 / 30 (11 - 13 Invested into Gargamel, 1 Invested into Humble's Bracelet)
Silver Ring 1: 5 / 10
Silver Ring 2: 5 / 10
Active Powers:
None
Combat Edges/Hindrances:
Hesitant
Arcane Machinist Gadgets Left: 1 /6
Created Gadgets:
Arcane Protection (6 PPE left)
Remote Viewing (6 PPE left)
Teleport (4 PPE left)
Dispel (9 PPE left)

Bennies: 1 (+1 Z) / 3
Base Amount
+1 Zombie Bennie
-1 to Reroll Fear against Vithen Wraiths
-1 to Reroll Arcana to Find Geist among Mirror Selves

Toughness: 16 (8); Parry: 4; Pace: 5 (d4)
Golems:
Gargamel (Invested PPE, Flying Pace 12, Mind Rider)
Huey (Mind Rider), Dewey, Louis
Alvin (Mind Rider), Simon, Theodore
https://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?p=76048#p76048

Hans:
  • Fatigue: 0
    Wounds: 0
Golems (*=Mind Link, #=Winged)
  • Gargamel*#
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Huey*
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Dewey
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Louis
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Alvin*
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Simon
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
    Theodore
    • Fatigue: 0
      Wounds: 0
User avatar
Tribe of One
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Tribe of One »

I like the idea of using permanently lost PPE/ISP as the balancing factor, in place of Strain. Harmonizing with the user's magical ability and eliminating Strain should be kind of the point of TW cyber.

I'd say start with something like 2 PPE/4 ISP lost in lieu of each point of Strain for the base cyber. Then maybe additional points lost for any TW enhancements that would add to activation costs.
GM Bennies: 7/7
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

Lars wrote:Each level of Strain suffered would be calculated as a PP in constant use? No choice, must spend - always.

ie. I have 20 PP normally, then get 6 "strain" of TW Bionics, so my new PP is 14.

Just a thought.
That's what I suggested for powering always-on cybernetics (replacement organs, bionic strength enhancement, etc). But I think that's separate from the Strain issue, which should be a factor for cybernetics (and is nicely accounted for with the option of CPA Edges).

And the possible extra oomph of TW Cybernetics (ie, TW Mods) should require a separate expenditure of PPE.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

You guys have some good ideas floating around. I was wondering activating a tw cybernetic system would be the ppt cost as armor or weapon? To me I would think the armor 1 ppt per hour would seem pretty good.

With that being the case the minor mod of permanently reducing the ppts by the amount of strain the item has from the users total ppt cost seems perfectably reasonable as a minor mod. It is nice from a book keeping point of view.

I would also suggest to include a major mod: ignore 1 pt of strain, that would be pretty simple solution to the negatives of affecting casters.

Then like Soren and others suggested if activating edges( 3 rounds of use), and powers you the pay the increase pt cost then. I would think any other tw mods like +1 fighting or what not are included in the general reduction of ppts.

Think of it, having an armor with +2 fighting and 2 increases in fighting dice, only cost 1 ppt per hour to maintain, so a general reduction of 1 pt.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Daniel
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 2167
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Daniel »

All awesome ideas...

It’s page 126 of Canada book...for reference:

Techno-Wizard Bionics

TW Bionics are extremely rare and few people other than the
Momano Headhunters are willing to use them (according to one
legend, they were originally developed for a particular clan of
heroic Momano Devil Slayers. According to another, they were
developed in the Splugorths' Atlantis).

Although most experienced Techno-Wizards can make them,
few will consider it, and even fewer people will consider buying
and using them. The items and effects are actually relatively
simple. Most are cast upon or built into "mechanical" weapon
attachments that are not directly linked to the partial cyborg's
body, such as forearm weapons. As a rule bionics, electronics,
metal, artificial parts and body armor have a negative effect on
magic, reducing its potency or negating its effect entirely. Con-
sequently, only characters with a comparatively low level of bi-
onics can use TW Bionic devices.

The typical Momano (70%) will have no more than seven
implants and 2-4 bionic features (disguise, lungs, chemical
spray in mouth/throat, etc.), and only one bionic limb (with 2-4
weapons or features built into it). Other limbs and organs dam-
aged in combat will be replaced with bio-systems.

Approximately 30% of the Momano are partially recon-
structed 'Borgs with 8-12 cybernetic implants or bionic features
and two bionic limbs (with 2-4 weapons or features each). How-
ever, to use TW Bionics, they must expend an extra 30% in
P.P.E. or I.S.P. points, plus the range and duration of said mysti-
cal effect is half! Any greater amount of bionics will prevent the
use of TW Bionic mechanisms.

Note: Each bionic limb can have a total of four weapons or
features and can combine conventional tech-weapons with TW.

An example:

Flaming Retractable Sword
A seemingly ordinary retractable blade or Vibro-Blade that
becomes a magical flaming sword when sufficient P.P.E. or
I.S.P. has been pumped in to activate its magic. The activation
counts as one melee action and the blade can be no smaller than
a short sword.
Creation Stats:
Initial P.P.E. Cost: 85
Spells Needed: Fire Bolt (7) and Power Weapon (35)
Physical Requirements: The standard bionic weapon and two ru-
bies worth 1000 credits each. Takes about 60 hours of work
to build.
Cost: Standard cost of the bionic weapon plus 55,000 for the
TW conversion.
Weapon Stats:
Damage: 4D6 M.D.
Duration: Two minutes (8 melee rounds).
Range: Hand to hand melee combat.
P.P.E. Cost to Activate: 7 P.P.E. or 14 I.S.P.
Cost: Standard cost of the bionic weapon (30,000) plus 70,000
credits for the TW conversion.
Agents of Titan Robotics Industries (AoT)
The Agents (Players)
• Jim - Sparkmort Zipwidget: Male Tinker Gnome Power Armor Ace
• Derrick - Caiden: Male Human, Momano Headhunter
• Steve (Hans) - Berk: Male Simvan Psi-Druid Monster Tamer/Rider
• Murp - Rupetta Martin: Female Human MARS Merc Soldier (X-CS)
• Freemage - Lance: Male Dog Boy Techno-Warrior (Cyber[netic] Knight)
• CSC - Ozy “Oz”: Dragon

My Accounts:
Active
  • Daniel - Admin/GM of AoT
  • Jackal - IC (Neural Intelligence) - 7th SET
  • Vi - Space Pirate - Stars Without Numbers
  • Henry Grimes - CS Commando - Rumble in the Jungle

Not Active
  • Hondo - Wild Psi Stalker
  • Burn - Mega Juicer - Juicer Uprising (On Hold)
  • Blackfish - Ogre Combat Mage - 12th SET (On Hold)
  • Setrakian - Dragon Juicer - FoM Jungles (Retired)

NPC Accounts
  • Lord Coake - NPC
  • Valentine - NPC
  • Erin Tarn - NPC
  • James T - NPC
  • Hagen Lonovich - NPC

User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:You guys have some good ideas floating around. I was wondering activating a tw cybernetic system would be the ppt cost as armor or weapon? To me I would think the armor 1 ppt per hour would seem pretty good.

With that being the case the minor mod of permanently reducing the ppts by the amount of strain the item has from the users total ppt cost seems perfectably reasonable as a minor mod. It is nice from a book keeping point of view.

I would also suggest to include a major mod: ignore 1 pt of strain, that would be pretty simple solution to the negatives of affecting casters.

Then like Soren and others suggested if activating edges( 3 rounds of use), and powers you the pay the increase pt cost then. I would think any other tw mods like +1 fighting or what not are included in the general reduction of ppts.

Think of it, having an armor with +2 fighting and 2 increases in fighting dice, only cost 1 ppt per hour to maintain, so a general reduction of 1 pt.
I strongly dislike the Major Mod of a 1-pt reduction. It opens up the possibility of a completely TW Pseudo-Techno-Warrior (built off of a different IF, so as to get access to more Power Points out of the gate), who is able to wield magic readily despite having a dozen strain worth of cybernetics. At that point, why play anything else? (Hell, play a Mystic with TW Cyberware, you can eat the permanent PPT cost in your sleep--or maybe a TW, who can not only design all their own TW Cyberware, but can also use it at a +2/+4 thanks to Machine Maestro).

The game already has Cyber-Psychic Alignment, which has the built-in limitation of 2 points of Strain, never any more. If a player couldn't reduce their strain penalty more than that, i don't see why they should be able to get around that cap with magic items.

It's one thing to let a spellcaster overcome a debilitating blow (lost limb or eye) with a unique piece of rare gear. It's another entirely to make a character build that can outdo anyone else.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Daniel
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 2167
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Daniel »

Oh, one last thing--substitute Knowledge: Cybernetics for Knowledge: Engineering for 'lowest-of' roll. Since this isn't a 'free' Skill for TWs, that also feeds into the scarcity issue.
I like this Freemage.
Agents of Titan Robotics Industries (AoT)
The Agents (Players)
• Jim - Sparkmort Zipwidget: Male Tinker Gnome Power Armor Ace
• Derrick - Caiden: Male Human, Momano Headhunter
• Steve (Hans) - Berk: Male Simvan Psi-Druid Monster Tamer/Rider
• Murp - Rupetta Martin: Female Human MARS Merc Soldier (X-CS)
• Freemage - Lance: Male Dog Boy Techno-Warrior (Cyber[netic] Knight)
• CSC - Ozy “Oz”: Dragon

My Accounts:
Active
  • Daniel - Admin/GM of AoT
  • Jackal - IC (Neural Intelligence) - 7th SET
  • Vi - Space Pirate - Stars Without Numbers
  • Henry Grimes - CS Commando - Rumble in the Jungle

Not Active
  • Hondo - Wild Psi Stalker
  • Burn - Mega Juicer - Juicer Uprising (On Hold)
  • Blackfish - Ogre Combat Mage - 12th SET (On Hold)
  • Setrakian - Dragon Juicer - FoM Jungles (Retired)

NPC Accounts
  • Lord Coake - NPC
  • Valentine - NPC
  • Erin Tarn - NPC
  • James T - NPC
  • Hagen Lonovich - NPC

User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Freemage wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:You guys have some good ideas floating around. I was wondering activating a tw cybernetic system would be the ppt cost as armor or weapon? To me I would think the armor 1 ppt per hour would seem pretty good.

With that being the case the minor mod of permanently reducing the ppts by the amount of strain the item has from the users total ppt cost seems perfectably reasonable as a minor mod. It is nice from a book keeping point of view.

I would also suggest to include a major mod: ignore 1 pt of strain, that would be pretty simple solution to the negatives of affecting casters.

Then like Soren and others suggested if activating edges( 3 rounds of use), and powers you the pay the increase pt cost then. I would think any other tw mods like +1 fighting or what not are included in the general reduction of ppts.

Think of it, having an armor with +2 fighting and 2 increases in fighting dice, only cost 1 ppt per hour to maintain, so a general reduction of 1 pt.
I strongly dislike the Major Mod of a 1-pt reduction. It opens up the possibility of a completely TW Pseudo-Techno-Warrior (built off of a different IF, so as to get access to more Power Points out of the gate), who is able to wield magic readily despite having a dozen strain worth of cybernetics. At that point, why play anything else? (Hell, play a Mystic with TW Cyberware, you can eat the permanent PPT cost in your sleep--or maybe a TW, who can not only design all their own TW Cyberware, but can also use it at a +2/+4 thanks to Machine Maestro).

The game already has Cyber-Psychic Alignment, which has the built-in limitation of 2 points of Strain, never any more. If a player couldn't reduce their strain penalty more than that, i don't see why they should be able to get around that cap with magic items.

It's one thing to let a spellcaster overcome a debilitating blow (lost limb or eye) with a unique piece of rare gear. It's another entirely to make a character build that can outdo anyone else.
Fair enough all good points, sorry.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Venatus Vinco
Bronze Patron
Bronze Patron
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:30 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Venatus Vinco »

One option could be strain by mods...so a Major mod is 2 strain and a minor mod is 1 strain. So you want a device that adds +2 to notice (1 strain - call it TW cyber eyes or nose or hearing or what ever) a TW cybernetic blaster would be 2 strain and have the "blast" power.

For activation 1 ppt per hour plus normal activation costs for combat stuff works fine.

This approach just considers the human body as a device with major and minor mod slots equal to strain.

Strain would affect the arcane skill as normal. Power points could come from mods or the user's internal store.

This way a key line walker could become a TW cyborg but effectively lose spellcasting ability in exchange for nifty TW powers.

VV
Signature
Didn't have a signature but wanted the 1 EP for using OOC tags!
User avatar
Jarvis Ursus
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Jarvis Ursus »

You could also look at the minor upgrade of +1 to any trait roll. If it is the arcane background skill, then it effectively negates the penalty. The super tech and enchanted item rules we have here already limit that to a maximum of +3 so with the cyber-psychic alignment edges, you could get a maximum strain offset of 5 which I do not think steps on the combat cyborg or headhunter’s toes too much.

Another option would be to have a Major Upgrade that allows you to ignore prerequisite implants so for example, you could implant a targeting eye without the need of a core electronics package.

I was playing around with the Psyscape and Mindwerks paynetics and using these ideas but it definitely could work for TW cybernetics too.
Jarvis Ursus
Jarvis, Kittani Power Armor Pilot
Pace: 18(d10); Parry: 7; Toughness: 21 (9 M.D.C.)
Combat-Relevant Edges & Abilities:
Combat Ace, Uncanny Reflexes, JAPE Defender Power Armor (STS)
ISP: 10/20
Wounds: 0/3; Fatigue: 0/2
Bennies: 3/3
User avatar
Sgt 86Delta
Game Master
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:47 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Sgt 86Delta »

WIP
Egil Skallgrim wrote:Another option would be to have a Major Upgrade that allows you to ignore prerequisite implants so for example, you could implant a targeting eye without the need of a core electronics package.
Cybernetics is a staged event. Similar to magic, Cyber needs its base components in order to work. Cyber does not require skills to operate becuase those starting packages and strain are necessary.

Upgrades for existing implants. Improving their functionality.
Example:
  • Hand-to-Hand Wiring
  • Hand-to-Hand Wiring: +2 to Fighting Skill (Strain 1, 30,000 cr) --
  • Improved Hand-to-Hand Wiring: Add'l +1 to Fighting Skill (Add'l Strain 0, [1.5 original credit cost = 45,000 cr]) --
  • Master Hand-to-Hand: Add'l +1 to Fighting Skill (Add'l Strain 1, [3 times original credit cost = 90,000 cr])
Upgrades for future implants. Reduce Strain. Improve functionality.
Example:
  • Nano-Repair System
  • Nano-Repair System: Heal One Wound per Day, +4 to Bleed Out Resist, 50% poison/disease resist (Strain 2, 250,000 cr) --
  • Improved Nano-Repair System: Heal One Wound per Day, Add'l +2 to Bleed Out Resist, Add'l 25% poison/disease resist (No Strain Reduction still Strain 2, [1.5 original credit cost = 337,500 cr]) --
  • Master Nano-Repair System: Heal One Wound every 12 Hours, Add'l +2 to Bleed Out Resist, Add'l 25% poison/disease resist (Strain Reduction 1, [3 times original credit cost = 675,000 cr])
Upgrades for replacing implants. Older Implant being Replaced by Newer
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

Egil Skallgrim wrote:You could also look at the minor upgrade of +1 to any trait roll. If it is the arcane background skill, then it effectively negates the penalty. The super tech and enchanted item rules we have here already limit that to a maximum of +3 so with the cyber-psychic alignment edges, you could get a maximum strain offset of 5 which I do not think steps on the combat cyborg or headhunter’s toes too much.

Another option would be to have a Major Upgrade that allows you to ignore prerequisite implants so for example, you could implant a targeting eye without the need of a core electronics package.

I was playing around with the Psyscape and Mindwerks paynetics and using these ideas but it definitely could work for TW cybernetics too.
The issue here is that +1 Minor Mods (and +1 die-type Major Mods) only apply when the item is used as part of the roll. This has been stressed several times by Clint. So unless your cybernetics directly apply to your arcane skill, no-go.

Note on the Mindwerks Psynetics--those are basically what's installed in the TLPG Crazy. Non-psionic Crazies don't actually exist in SW, which is why I put up a proposed variant crazy in the house rules.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Jarvis Ursus
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:12 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Jarvis Ursus »

Good point on when the actual implant is in use. I did not realize that.

I completely disagree with the TLPG Crazy having Mindwerks psynetics though. It actually says in TLPG that the implants originate in South America. I saw the non-psionic crazy and I think that looks good, but I was talking about the individual implants in PR Psyscape and Mindwerks that can be installed in crazies and non-crazies alike to augment psychic ability. In that case you could make an argument that the +1 to psionic skill rolls is applicable. I thought it would be neat to convert those, but that is a separate discussion and realize now it’s not applicable to TW cybernetics.
Jarvis Ursus
Jarvis, Kittani Power Armor Pilot
Pace: 18(d10); Parry: 7; Toughness: 21 (9 M.D.C.)
Combat-Relevant Edges & Abilities:
Combat Ace, Uncanny Reflexes, JAPE Defender Power Armor (STS)
ISP: 10/20
Wounds: 0/3; Fatigue: 0/2
Bennies: 3/3
User avatar
Fizzwaite Zipwidget
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Fizzwaite Zipwidget »

Egil Skallgrim wrote:Good point on when the actual implant is in use. I did not realize that.

I completely disagree with the TLPG Crazy having Mindwerks psynetics though. It actually says in TLPG that the implants originate in South America. I saw the non-psionic crazy and I think that looks good, but I was talking about the individual implants in PR Psyscape and Mindwerks that can be installed in crazies and non-crazies alike to augment psychic ability. In that case you could make an argument that the +1 to psionic skill rolls is applicable. I thought it would be neat to convert those, but that is a separate discussion and realize now it’s not applicable to TW cybernetics.
Could've sworn that Mindwerks HQ is in South America. I think I read that in a wiki somewhere so it may be incorrect. I haven't picked up the South American books yet and I've only skimmed the Psyscape book so far.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

out with the old
Some stuff I came up with in chat

Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Requirement: Arcane Background (Weird Science or Psionics), Extra Power Points
You may take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices. They work as listed, but instead of costing strain, they reduce your Power Points. You may not take more than Strain rating in cybernetics, even if the devices do not reduce that rating. You may take Upgradeable and Beyond the Limit, as normal.
  • Note: Techno-Wizard cybernetics cost the normal amount, plus what it costs for TW conversion. It takes a Veteran Technowizard with Knowledge (Cybernetics) d10 to modify cybernetics with Techno-Wizardry.
Momano Headhunter Mars Package
Begin with the Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment Edge, Arcane Background (Weird Science) or Arcane Background (Psionics), Extra Power Points, and your Arcane Skill at d8. Make two additional rolls on the Cybernetics Hero's Journey Table

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: So ignore all of that
Alright, so looking at the OCC again, the key things are a headhunter (has cybernetics) and the TW Bionics. Thing is all of those are retrapped powers. So they have cybernetics (I'd say 4 strain worth). They also have the Momano Cyber-Psychic Fusion Arcane Background.
Arcane Background (Momano Cyber-Psychic Fusion)
You can combine your implanted cybernetics with your psychic potential to create fantastic effects. You have a version of Weird Science that offers 10 ISP for each of your cyber-psychic devices to work. They are modified cybernetics. You begin with one. Due to the interference from your existing cybernetics, you are always at -2 to to activate these devices. You can take the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges to reduce this. The arcane skill for this Background is Psionics.

MOMANO TECHNO-WARRIOR
Also called a Headhunter and usually operating as a mercenary, heavily focused on improving his value via cybernetics.
Begin with the Arcane Background (Momano Cyber-Psychic Fusion) and Upgradable Edges.
Select cybernetic systems up to 4 total Strain.
Choose the starting gear allotment for the Combat Cyborg, Crazy, or Juicer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Or we can go the Pender Route
Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment [Iconic Edge]
Requirement: Veteran, MARS or ARES
You make the leap to become a Momano Headhunter. You have 5 PPE or ISP (player choice, made when the edge is taken). You may use Techno-Wizard devices. You may also exclusively take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices. They work as normal but may have additional modifications that allow equipment, power, or edge use in addition to what the normal devices offer. They have a -2 penalty of use which can be reduced by the use of the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges. You may also take the Extra Power Points edge.

MOMANO TECHNO-WARRIOR
Also called a Headhunter and usually operating as a mercenary, heavily focused on improving his value via normal and techno-wizard cybernetics.
Begin with the Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment edge. Select techno-wizard and normal cybernetic systems up to 6 total Strain.
Choose the starting gear allotment for the Combat Cyborg, Crazy, or Juicer.

TW Cybernetics

These devices are normal cybernetic devices. They also have added on TW modifications that allow the use of their integrated systems by the Momano Techno-Warrior.
TW Built-In Close Combat Weapons (U): Each of the TW weapons listed in the Close Combat section, as well as custom versions, can be integrated into a Momano Headhunter’s framework. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.

TW Built-In Ranged Weapon (U): Techno-Wizard Weapons listed in the Ranged Weapons—Personal and the Heavy Weapons sections can potentially be embedded in a Momano Headhunter. As the weapons are TW in nature, they often have internal PPE reservoirs. For personal weapons, Strain is +1 for every 100 pounds (round up). Multiply cost of the TW weapon by 1.5 to get the techno-wizard cybernetic version cost.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

I will admit I have not read all of this, but I am definitely 100% not in favor of an approach that allows basically access to Cybernetics and a AB in the same character without the 2 Strain Limit of Improved Tolerance.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

The gchat was fairly illuminating as to what is actually being converted to a tw device when it comes to cybernetics. Most if not all the tw cybernetics would be easily integrated into a normal cybernetic arm or hand(or what have you). So maybe it is not so much about converting cybernetics in SR to a tw item, but instead converting a device, weapon, or what have you and integrating that into the cybernetic system itself. Your cybernetic system functions normally, and you can pay ppts to activate the tw integrated system.

Built-In Close Combat Weapons (U): Each of the weapons listed in the Close Combat section can be integrated into a cyborg's framework. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost. Built-In Ranged Weapon (U): Weapons listed in the Ranged Weapons—Personal and the Heavy and Vehicular Weapons sections can potentially be embedded in a cyborg. Only Combat Cyborgs can power energy weapons that run off internal power sources. For personal weapons, Strain is +1 for every 100 pounds (round up). For vehicular weapons, Mods equal Strain, but no weapon with a Mod greater than the character's Size can be implanted. Multiply cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.

Maybe not so much vehicular weapons. But that would at least address the issue of making cybernetics run on ppe/isp. You of course would still get screwed with casting rolls, but that seems to be a feature of cybernetics and even the TW cybernetics.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Yeah that flat -2 is a bit fishy. I am curious as to how it would play test rules as written, with that 5ppe/isp ability/edge. Maybe start the package with the 5ppe/isp 4 pts worth of strain, and both cyberpsychic alligment SR edges.

Oh also what would you think about some kind of ability to ignore the strain caused by integrated systems(weapons amd the like), for casting rolls only.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

Okay, I'm assuming everything behind the "Out with the Old" tab is just set aside for this discussion.
High Command wrote:
Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment [Iconic Edge]
Requirement: Veteran, MARS or ARES
You make the leap to become a Momano Headhunter. You have 5 PPE or ISP (player choice, made when the edge is taken). You may use Techno-Wizard devices. You may also exclusively take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices. They work as normal but may have additional modifications that allow equipment, power, or edge use in addition to what the normal devices offer. They have a -2 penalty of use which can be reduced by the use of the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges. You may also take the Extra Power Points edge.
I have... points of confusion, here.

1: "You may also exclusively take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices." The word 'exclusively' is throwing me here, because of the flexibility (read: insanity) of English grammar. Does this mean you can only use TWCyb? Or that only characters with this Edge can use TWCyb?

2: "They have a -2 penalty of use which can be reduced by the use of the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges." I straight up do not understand what this sentence actually means. Is the idea that the TWCyb has a fixed -2 Strain, no matter how much of it you actually have in your body, and that furthermore you can mitigate THAT by taking the CPA Edges?

3: If the character is already a MARS or ARES spellcaster, this gives them both... whatever the actual ability of the Edge is supposed to be, plus 5 PPts. Is that the intent?
MOMANO TECHNO-WARRIOR
Also called a Headhunter and usually operating as a mercenary, heavily focused on improving his value via normal and techno-wizard cybernetics.
Begin with the Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment edge. Select techno-wizard and normal cybernetic systems up to 6 total Strain.
Choose the starting gear allotment for the Combat Cyborg, Crazy, or Juicer.

TW Cybernetics

These devices are normal cybernetic devices. They also have added on TW modifications that allow the use of their integrated systems by the Momano Techno-Warrior.
TW Built-In Close Combat Weapons (U): Each of the TW weapons listed in the Close Combat section, as well as custom versions, can be integrated into a Momano Headhunter’s framework. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.

TW Built-In Ranged Weapon (U): Techno-Wizard Weapons listed in the Ranged Weapons—Personal and the Heavy Weapons sections can potentially be embedded in a Momano Headhunter. As the weapons are TW in nature, they often have internal PPE reservoirs. For personal weapons, Strain is +1 for every 100 pounds (round up). Multiply cost of the TW weapon by 1.5 to get the techno-wizard cybernetic version cost.
Is the idea here that integrated weapons are the only Cybernetics that can be converted to TW use? I don't see why they are being called out specifically, if not--the Strain rules from the book seem like they'd apply normally, as would the TW rules for internal PPE and such.

Both write-ups either seem to be very overpowered, or almost needless, depending on the interpretations.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I think we are almost there. What does a technowarrior get? 6 strain, and an edge? Seems 6 strain and the edge which gives ppts and ability to use TW items seems right in line.

The flavor of the TW bionics certainly seems a TW device that is integrated into an existing cybernetic. So it seems super easy to just run it rules as written. With using the two integration methods in SR to determine strain cost.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Sgt 86Delta
Game Master
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:47 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Sgt 86Delta »

I am understanding this as 1 TW device integrated into 1 Cybernetic and that is the limit.

One Cybernetic limb, say an arm, could have a TW Shard Pistol but not say a TW Rail Gun.

Question: If we are talking Cybernetics, does that mean that we would also be considering the application to Armor, Robot Armor, and Power Armor?
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Freemage wrote:Okay, I'm assuming everything behind the "Out with the Old" tab is just set aside for this discussion.
Correct
Freemage wrote:I have... points of confusion, here.
What my mad ramblings and jumbled notes at 2-3 in the morning make no sense to you? What are you illiterate!?! :P (I'm joking in case any of that dripping sarcasm didn't splash your way)
Freemage wrote:1: "You may also exclusively take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices." The word 'exclusively' is throwing me here, because of the flexibility (read: insanity) of English grammar. Does this mean you can only use TWCyb? Or that only characters with this Edge can use TWCyb?
Only characters with this edge can take TW cybernetics. This resolves the issue of "why wouldn't every combat cyborg or headhunter not take this gain access to TW weapons.
Freemage wrote:2: "They have a -2 penalty of use which can be reduced by the use of the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges." I straight up do not understand what this sentence actually means. Is the idea that the TWCyb has a fixed -2 Strain, no matter how much of it you actually have in your body, and that furthermore you can mitigate THAT by taking the CPA Edges?
Only to use the implanted TW devices, which would have to be designed to use another skill aside from an arcane skill, since this character would have no arcane skill as intended. The idea is out of the box you have a penalty from feedback. But some of it is mitigated by the fact you have a direct neural connection to the devices. Because they are literally implanted with nerve connections to your brain.
Freemage wrote:3: If the character is already a MARS or ARES spellcaster, this gives them both... whatever the actual ability of the Edge is supposed to be, plus 5 PPts. Is that the intent?
They can't use TW devices without some PPE or ISP. This gives them the 5 PPE option given to ARES, and allows them to use PPE. Plus they can exclusively use TW Bionic implants. But they get a penalty out of the gate. Not as bad as it would be due to strain, largely because of the direct neural link they have to said weapon. Plus, aside from activation, they'd be using normal fighting or shooting skills to utilize the implanted weapon.
Freemage wrote:Is the idea here that integrated weapons are the only Cybernetics that can be converted to TW use? I don't see why they are being called out specifically, if not--the Strain rules from the book seem like they'd apply normally, as would the TW rules for internal PPE and such.
Both write-ups either seem to be very overpowered, or almost needless, depending on the interpretations.
The call out to PPE batteries was a rewrite of some text in there from the Cybernetic implant and can probably be taken out. As for this being the only two - yes. In WB 20, where the Momano Headhunter originates, the only TW bionics I saw were TW weapons. You might allow some others to be taken (TW Flight options, perhaps, maybe an armor or deflection like forcefield), but the only shown enhancements in the book are TW weapons.

The idea behind the strain not being reflected in their activation or costs is because each implant will have a direct neural link with the nervous system of the recipient. Plus the TW will have to do some weird stuff that allows for that to matter. It should be noted that to build this would require a veteran TW with Knowledge (Cybernetics) at a d8 or better, so this isn't precisely a common thing to have built or something built by amateurs. The original flavor text in WB 20 suggested only very experienced TWs could even build and modify them.

Because the weight of the implanted weapon will determine the strain for the implant, there really doesn't need to be anything more than the two options, the edge allowing PPE/ISP and the ability to use TW bionics and TW weapons. Since the flat penalty seems to be throwing folks, what about a flat -2 for TW bionics ONLY. So use a normal TW weapon they deal with their Strain penalty, but using their specifically designed TW bionics, it tops out at -2. And note that the Cyber-psychic edges apply to both uses. I could also see a couple of Momano Improved versions of the Cyber-Psychic edges that increases the amount ignored. Especially since 50% of them are psychics too.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:I have... points of confusion, here.
What my mad ramblings and jumbled notes at 2-3 in the morning make no sense to you? What are you illiterate!?! :P (I'm joking in case any of that dripping sarcasm didn't splash your way)
No worries, and thanks for 'splainin'.
High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:1: "You may also exclusively take Techno-Wizard versions of cybernetic devices." The word 'exclusively' is throwing me here, because of the flexibility (read: insanity) of English grammar. Does this mean you can only use TWCyb? Or that only characters with this Edge can use TWCyb?
Only characters with this edge can take TW cybernetics. This resolves the issue of "why wouldn't every combat cyborg or headhunter not take this gain access to TW weapons.
See, I'm actually less fond of this, even though I'm the one beating the warning drums about the dangers to game balance here. I'd like to see it as a more open possibility, but with some caveats I'll get into later. Also, it raises a question--can this Edge be implanted into a TW cybernetic device? Or even an external one? ("I activate my armor, which has Momano Techno-Warrior Edge. This, in turn, allows me to activate my TW Cybernetic Sword-Fist FROM HELL." I'm not sure this would actually be a problem, but it's worth noting whenever making an Edge to see what weirdness arises if you put it in a TW device....)
High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:2: "They have a -2 penalty of use which can be reduced by the use of the Cyber-Psychic Alignment edges." I straight up do not understand what this sentence actually means. Is the idea that the TWCyb has a fixed -2 Strain, no matter how much of it you actually have in your body, and that furthermore you can mitigate THAT by taking the CPA Edges?
Only to use the implanted TW devices, which would have to be designed to use another skill aside from an arcane skill, since this character would have no arcane skill as intended. The idea is out of the box you have a penalty from feedback. But some of it is mitigated by the fact you have a direct neural connection to the devices. Because they are literally implanted with nerve connections to your brain.
Would this also apply to using the items as weapons, without activating any powers therein? That is to say, does a Momano with a Vibro-vambraces arm-set suffer a -2 to his Fighting rolls with them, even if he's not activating their Smite ability?
High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:3: If the character is already a MARS or ARES spellcaster, this gives them both... whatever the actual ability of the Edge is supposed to be, plus 5 PPts. Is that the intent?
They can't use TW devices without some PPE or ISP. This gives them the 5 PPE option given to ARES, and allows them to use PPE. Plus they can exclusively use TW Bionic implants. But they get a penalty out of the gate. Not as bad as it would be due to strain, largely because of the direct neural link they have to said weapon. Plus, aside from activation, they'd be using normal fighting or shooting skills to utilize the implanted weapon.
Part of my question is this--if I build a MARS spellcaster (say, using Rogue Scholar as the base, because Rogue Scholars are surprisingly flexible in their builds), then this Edge would also give me an extra 5 PPE for my casting in general--which COULD be used for the enhancements, sure, but could also just be used for Spellcasting. Is that the intent? (Side-query: In the case of a Major Psionic MARS/ARES build, would this provide 10 ISP?)
And, would such a character's Arcane Skill be affected by Strain normally for the implants in question, or by the flat -2?
High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:Is the idea here that integrated weapons are the only Cybernetics that can be converted to TW use? I don't see why they are being called out specifically, if not--the Strain rules from the book seem like they'd apply normally, as would the TW rules for internal PPE and such.
Both write-ups either seem to be very overpowered, or almost needless, depending on the interpretations.
The call out to PPE batteries was a rewrite of some text in there from the Cybernetic implant and can probably be taken out. As for this being the only two - yes. In WB 20, where the Momano Headhunter originates, the only TW bionics I saw were TW weapons. You might allow some others to be taken (TW Flight options, perhaps, maybe an armor or deflection like forcefield), but the only shown enhancements in the book are TW weapons.
Okay, yes, that helps clarify what I'm seeing here. Again, part of me resists making the concept that limited. I don't have an issue with TWCyb that simply use all the rules of TW gear and Cybernetics. There's some serious drawbacks when you combine the two--especially if you're foolish enough to get, say, a TWCyb Lung, since you're one Exalted Dispel from suffocation. But a TWCyb Ocular or Hearing implant (which resulted in the character being Blind/Deaf, respectively, when not activated, but gives normal Strain penalties when activated) could make some interesting roleplay without being overpowered.
High Command wrote: The idea behind the strain not being reflected in their activation or costs is because each implant will have a direct neural link with the nervous system of the recipient. Plus the TW will have to do some weird stuff that allows for that to matter. It should be noted that to build this would require a veteran TW with Knowledge (Cybernetics) at a d8 or better, so this isn't precisely a common thing to have built or something built by amateurs. The original flavor text in WB 20 suggested only very experienced TWs could even build and modify them.
May I suggest an Iconic Edge for TWs as part of this package--Momano Cybernetics Training: Iconic, Veteran, K: Cybernetics d8, K: Arcana d8 or d10--"You can perform TW conversions and modifications to cybernetic gear, but your Build roll for such is the lower of K: Cybernetics, K: Arcana or Techno-Wizardry"?
Because the weight of the implanted weapon will determine the strain for the implant, there really doesn't need to be anything more than the two options, the edge allowing PPE/ISP and the ability to use TW bionics and TW weapons. Since the flat penalty seems to be throwing folks, what about a flat -2 for TW bionics ONLY. So use a normal TW weapon they deal with their Strain penalty, but using their specifically designed TW bionics, it tops out at -2. And note that the Cyber-psychic edges apply to both uses. I could also see a couple of Momano Improved versions of the Cyber-Psychic edges that increases the amount ignored.[/quote]
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Freemage wrote:See, I'm actually less fond of this, even though I'm the one beating the warning drums about the dangers to game balance here. I'd like to see it as a more open possibility, but with some caveats I'll get into later. Also, it raises a question--can this Edge be implanted into a TW cybernetic device? Or even an external one? ("I activate my armor, which has Momano Techno-Warrior Edge. This, in turn, allows me to activate my TW Cybernetic Sword-Fist FROM HELL." I'm not sure this would actually be a problem, but it's worth noting whenever making an Edge to see what weirdness arises if you put it in a TW device....)
You hit a chicken and the egg issue. You need the edge to get TW cybernetics - so yeah you could, but why?
Freemage wrote:Would this also apply to using the items as weapons, without activating any powers therein? That is to say, does a Momano with a Vibro-vambraces arm-set suffer a -2 to his Fighting rolls with them, even if he's not activating their Smite ability?
If a vibro-blade implant has a smite add-on, you could activate the vibro-blade separately, yes. However, if they implant is a flaming sword implant, no, you'd need to activate the weapon with PPE. Trappings matter, of course.
Freemage wrote:Part of my question is this--if I build a MARS spellcaster (say, using Rogue Scholar as the base, because Rogue Scholars are surprisingly flexible in their builds), then this Edge would also give me an extra 5 PPE for my casting in general--which COULD be used for the enhancements, sure, but could also just be used for Spellcasting. Is that the intent? (Side-query: In the case of a Major Psionic MARS/ARES build, would this provide 10 ISP?)
And, would such a character's Arcane Skill be affected by Strain normally for the implants in question, or by the flat -2?
Using the revision I suggested at the bottom, the -2 is ONLY for the implanted TW bionics. The AB the character has would be affected by strain as normal. And yes, it acts as Extra Power Points; But it's not that edge, which is required for Major Psionics
(TLPG 73: Major Psychic Edge) "A greater control of mind, body, and spirit combined with the overwhelming power available on Rifts Earth means this hero can do much more with her inner strength. Major Psionics double their base ISP, and they gain +10 ISP (instead of the usual +5) from the Power Points Edge."
Freemage wrote:Okay, yes, that helps clarify what I'm seeing here. Again, part of me resists making the concept that limited. I don't have an issue with TWCyb that simply use all the rules of TW gear and Cybernetics. There's some serious drawbacks when you combine the two--especially if you're foolish enough to get, say, a TWCyb Lung, since you're one Exalted Dispel from suffocation. But a TWCyb Ocular or Hearing implant (which resulted in the character being Blind/Deaf, respectively, when not activated, but gives normal Strain penalties when activated) could make some interesting roleplay without being overpowered.
The Momano in classic had a list of regular cybernetics as well. No need to do TW optics because the cybernetic ones were so good.
Freemage wrote:May I suggest an Iconic Edge for TWs as part of this package--Momano Cybernetics Training: Iconic, Veteran, K: Cybernetics d8, K: Arcana d8 or d10--"You can perform TW conversions and modifications to cybernetic gear, but your Build roll for such is the lower of K: Cybernetics, K: Arcana or Techno-Wizardry"?
Momano do not build cybernetics or even TW cybernetics. TWs with a knowledge of cybernetics do. They are headhunters, not builders.

The more we talk around the limitations of strain the more I realize it's going to require an IF. Simply because we can't let go of a few issues.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Sgt 86Delta
Game Master
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:47 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Sgt 86Delta »

Momano do not build cybernetics or even TW cybernetics. TWs with a knowledge of cybernetics do. They are headhunters, not builders.
By "They" you mean the Momano?

Are Momano a race with an AB?
User avatar
Daniel
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 2167
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am
Location: Former Alias (GM name) was Lars (2016-2022)

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Daniel »


Sgt 86Delta wrote:By "They" you mean the Momano?

Are Momano a race with an AB?
Momano is a term (Occupational Character Class) from Rifts.

Referring to a type of Head Hunter that uses TW Bionics.

Magic bionics.

-------------

For beings who were not spell casters before their were converted, they must have the Skill of Magic Lore to uses the special abilities of the cybernetics and bionics. Enhanced strength of the T.W. Implants can still be used and conventional cybernetics can still be used normally. Some Cybernetics are available in two different styles. One requires P.P.E. each time it is used and the other is always active.
Agents of Titan Robotics Industries (AoT)
The Agents (Players)
• Jim - Sparkmort Zipwidget: Male Tinker Gnome Power Armor Ace
• Derrick - Caiden: Male Human, Momano Headhunter
• Steve (Hans) - Berk: Male Simvan Psi-Druid Monster Tamer/Rider
• Murp - Rupetta Martin: Female Human MARS Merc Soldier (X-CS)
• Freemage - Lance: Male Dog Boy Techno-Warrior (Cyber[netic] Knight)
• CSC - Ozy “Oz”: Dragon

My Accounts:
Active
  • Daniel - Admin/GM of AoT
  • Jackal - IC (Neural Intelligence) - 7th SET
  • Vi - Space Pirate - Stars Without Numbers
  • Henry Grimes - CS Commando - Rumble in the Jungle

Not Active
  • Hondo - Wild Psi Stalker
  • Burn - Mega Juicer - Juicer Uprising (On Hold)
  • Blackfish - Ogre Combat Mage - 12th SET (On Hold)
  • Setrakian - Dragon Juicer - FoM Jungles (Retired)

NPC Accounts
  • Lord Coake - NPC
  • Valentine - NPC
  • Erin Tarn - NPC
  • James T - NPC
  • Hagen Lonovich - NPC

User avatar
Blackfish
Daniel (Lars)
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:52 pm
Location: 12th AAT

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Blackfish »


Go simple?

Strain works like Strain does.

You want TW Bionics/Cybernetics, okay add up Strain exactly the same way as non TW.

The only difference? Well you need a AB to use TW bionics.

Done. Go play with TW Bionics.


Figure this shit out! I am missing an arm, damn it.
Accounts

Discord: Daniel (Lars)

Savage Rifts Game Master
    • The Black Company
    • Machinations

Savage Rifts Player Characters
  • Niki NEMA Peacekeeper / Commando
    Adventures Inc. GM - Venatus Vinco
  • Mercer Mercenary Exiled RCSG
    Mercy Six GM - Pender Lumkiss
  • Boon Psychic & Mechanic
    Phaseworld GM - Ndreare
  • Blackfish Combat Mage / Ogre
    Tomorrow Legion 12th AAT GM - Snake Eyes
  • Player Account 6 Unlocked & Unused.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Except that strain reduces the activating Arcane roll by the amount of strain you have in cybernetics. If you have 5 strain of cybernetics, you roll arcane skill -5 to activate. That would be like saying "Sure you have this feature you're hardly ever going to get to use - and go!" So no, go simple is not an option. And no, no one is willing to ignore that either, short of some feature that allow for it.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

I really do not see the need for this at all.

We already have a clear rule for allowing AB characters to have Cybernetics (I even included it on Ndreare's advancement plan). As to a TW modifying a Cybernetic or Bionic component I see no big deal, any TW could do it (Heck Mac a TW made available to the 99s specifically says he can do it in his blurb). But they will suffer strain penalties for anything over their Cyber Tolerance.

If you want an Iconic Edge for even more Cyber Tolerance then make that. But by trying to make a custom cybernetic edge you are actually removing a viable and rules legal option from other characters.


PS: This thread is complex enough, with edits and comments I am having trouble understanding what the final version is.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

The reason its required is there is no way currently to effectively do a Momano Headhunter in Savage Rifts. And no the CPA edges and 2 strain of cybernetics do NOT equal the concept.

There is no clear final version because literally nothing has been decided upon. As I said before, this will require a full IF in order to adequately account for the drawbacks and benefits in a way that does not break the game for others. If Lars wants to do that I'd help him. But short of that, I think I'm done.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I am workimg on a M Hunter right now, using the city rat as a guide.
Cybernetics 4 pts of strain
  • Two pts of strain are integrated tw weapons, a tw machinegun, and a tw flame blade.
Upgradable
Kn arcana d6

That seems a good starting point.

I will add AB super powers for ppe. You are right, casting is a pain in the but. That being said I don't need him to cast anything, he just needs to use tw weapons. Sure that means those weapons don't get powers, but I can add other enhancements to them. If I really want powers, The battle fury blade gives a great example of how to just spend ppe and get x features without even making a casting roll.

I also picked up rich and very rich for more cybernetics. If I was interested in going more caster, I would have picked up ab psionics, and the two cyberpsychic alignments. Sure I would be at a -2 to casting rolls, but that is not insurmountable.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

Edit: This was a question for High Command.

Is there a reason you could not simply give a headhunter Arcane Background Super Powers and now he has 20 power point for powering TW devices by the book?
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote:Except that strain reduces the activating Arcane roll by the amount of strain you have in cybernetics. If you have 5 strain of cybernetics, you roll arcane skill -5 to activate. That would be like saying "Sure you have this feature you're hardly ever going to get to use - and go!" So no, go simple is not an option. And no, no one is willing to ignore that either, short of some feature that allow for it.
The Arcane roll is only needed if:

1: The item has Powers implanted
2: The Powers require an Arcane roll (which is not mandatory, per the rules for TW conversion--you can tie it to a non-Arcane skill like Fighting or Shooting for the weapons, thereby bypassing Strain for those weapons, which would explain why the Mamano usually only get TWCyb weapons, actually).

At that point, having 12 Strain doesn't matter (assuming you've got the stats for it), because you're not ever actually affected by Strain.

I guess my question is this--do the Original Recipe Momano typically have spellcasting abilities independent of their implants? If not, then there's no reason for them to need some sort of special abilities here. It becomes fairly trivial to do a reskin like Pender is doing--have them start out with two implanted weapons and two other types of cyberware; the weapons are TW with one Major and two Minor Upgrades. If the Major is a Power, it is installed with the "uses Fighting or Shooting for the activation roll" option.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »


∆∆
∆∆∆
This.


Only the Full Conversation Const Cyborg is off limits.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Freemage wrote:I guess my question is this--do the Original Recipe Momano typically have spellcasting abilities independent of their implants? If not, then there's no reason for them to need some sort of special abilities here. It becomes fairly trivial to do a reskin like Pender is doing--have them start out with two implanted weapons and two other types of cyberware; the weapons are TW with one Major and two Minor Upgrades. If the Major is a Power, it is installed with the "uses Fighting or Shooting for the activation roll" option.
50% of all Momano are full master psychics (Bursters, Zappers, even Mind Melters) and aside from a reduction of 50% in range and some loss of ISP, they function just fine. They are not and never were meant to be spellcasters.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

High Command wrote:
Freemage wrote:I guess my question is this--do the Original Recipe Momano typically have spellcasting abilities independent of their implants? If not, then there's no reason for them to need some sort of special abilities here. It becomes fairly trivial to do a reskin like Pender is doing--have them start out with two implanted weapons and two other types of cyberware; the weapons are TW with one Major and two Minor Upgrades. If the Major is a Power, it is installed with the "uses Fighting or Shooting for the activation roll" option.
50% of all Momano are full master psychics (Bursters, Zappers, even Mind Melters) and aside from a reduction of 50% in range and some loss of ISP, they function just fine. They are not and never were meant to be spellcasters.
What about something that does just that:
Master Momano Hunter
  • requirments: Legendary, IMPROVED CYBER-PSYCHIC ALIGNMENT, 6 strain of cybernetics, arcane background skill d10(this can be changed, how much strain is a near bionic conversion?)
    -Welcome to the pinnacle of blending cybernetics and magic. By sacrificing isp or ppe you are able to cast almost as good as new. Reduce your ppts by the amount by the strain your character has. You can ignore up to 6 strain before suffering penalties to your casting rolls(this includes the benifits from cyber psychic edges)
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Because the same thing was rejected above? I'm fine with it, but it was specifically rejected above.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

To me there are three ways it can go and I'm not sure which is better.
1. You just make a couple of cybernetic implants that integrates TW weapons with internal PPE batteries and are made for mundane users, give them to borgs and call it a day - we lose the flavor of the Momano headhunter, but everyone gains a few options that are kinda cool.
2. You make some edge that allows you to bypass strain if you have an AB; a very specific subset is allowed to have a really cool option
3. We make a specific IF that is the sole exception to all of this nonsense, build it like it needs to be built to match the fluff, and call it a day.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

The following seems to fit the flavor of the text provided from Canada. While I think it is balanced by the Savage Worlds approach. This is only a single edge, that works with other edges, so very little rules change.


Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Requirements: Veteran, Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment, Spirit d10+, Vigor d10+,
This edge allows the character to even exceed the normal threshold limits of Improved Cyber Psychic Alignment. The character may ignore up to 5 Strain when calculating the penalties for using Arcane Background powers. However the character's PPE and ISP are reduced by half, taking the Power Points Edge only provides 3 Power Points (5 if a Major Psionic) and the range of any arcane powers the character can access are all reduced by half.



So the normal Momano who has 5-7 devices will see a slight penalty, heck you could go big, grab upgradable and have more cybernetics, but you will pay the price in strain.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

Okay, some things have been clarified, and I'm getting there in my head.

Since the goal here is specifically to get a strong approximation of the Momano, who were often (but not always) Master Psychics, let's go there--this is specifically for ISP-based characters, now. PPE wielders need not apply.

Likewise, the Momano seemed to suffer some significant crimps in their powers, instead of taking a ton of Strain penalties.

At this point, I'm liking Rob's ECPA, with an addition that it also requires AB: Psionics or AB: Momano Hunter.

And AB: Momano Hunter is basically going to be AB: Superpowers with ISP (and thus eligible for Major/Master Psionic, but not Master of Magic).

HC, does that meet your desires on synching with the fluff?
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

I'd say AB Psionics and AB Major Psionics.

Momano Cyber-Psychic Alignment [Iconic]
Requirements: Veteran, MARS or ARES, Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment, Arcane Background (Psionics), Major Psionics, Spirit d10+, Vigor d10+
This edge allows the character to even exceed the normal threshold limits of Improved Cyber Psychic Alignment. The character may ignore up to 5 Strain when calculating the penalties for using Arcane Background powers. However the character's ISP are reduced by half, taking the Power Points Edge only provides 5 Power Points as a Major Psionic, and the range of any arcane powers the character has is reduced to half (non-ranged powers have their Power Point cost doubled).

Pender, in chat, suggested a retrapping of Adept that instead of free action would grant the ability to ignore Strain penalties but only for self targeting powers, and only one per rank. I'm not 100% convinced, but its an option to look at.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

When taking an edge the requirements, limitations and advantages should balance. I do not see where being a MARS or ARES belongs in this Edge's requirements rationally. But I can see limiting it to Psionics.


Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Requirements: Veteran, Arcane Background (Psionics), Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment, Spirit d10+, Vigor d10+,
This edge allows the character to even exceed the normal threshold limits of Improved Cyber Psychic Alignment. The character may ignore up to 5 Strain when calculating the penalties for using Arcane Background powers. However the character's PPE and ISP are reduced by half, taking the Power Points Edge only provides 3 Power Points (5 if a Major Psionic) and the range of any arcane powers the character can access are all reduced by half.


To be clear lets show what this Edge is granting versus what it is costing. An edge should be balanced to about +2 if you use my arbitrary major things are +/-2 and minor things are +/-1
Benefits(about +6 worth of advantage)
  • Ability to ignore 3 strain (about 3 edges worth of gain, +6)
Consequence(about -5 worth of limitation)
  • 50% of Base ISP (Major limitation -2)
    40%-50% of ISP from advancements. (varies based on number of times selected, assumed minor -1)
    Ranged powers reduced. (Minor limitation -1)
    Limited to a single arcane background. (Minor limitation -1)

High Command wrote:Pender, in chat, suggested a retrapping of Adept that instead of free action would grant the ability to ignore Strain penalties but only for self targeting powers, and only one per rank. I'm not 100% convinced, but its an option to look at.

I would definitely be opposed to anything that let someone ignore all strain. I do not care for the idea of seeing guys running around with 12 of 12 Strain and popping off Boost Trait without penalties.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

The concept is a Momano Headhunter - Headhunters are MARS and ARES by extension (because it includes some MARS options and is meant for the same kind of kitchen sink approach). Also, only MARS (and ARES) are the ONLY IF that allows getting both cybernetics AND Psionics. Crazies are a completely separate concept, and while Bursters and Mind Melters are the in the fluff for it, they can be approximated well enough by MARS (and ARES); Also, they have no ability to get cybernetics by HJ, unless they take rich and very rich. Also most of the Strain upgrading edges require MARS or Combat Cyborg. Cyber-knights have enough boost in their IF as is, and are not thematically anti-supernatural or mercenaries.

Momano are by fluff master psionics, but I think requiring Major Psionics is a good enough requirement. It also simplifies the language of gains from Extra Power Points.

As I said about the suggestion, I wasn't convinced, but it might be something that could be tacked on as an outgrowth of this edge.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote:The concept is a Momano Headhunter - Headhunters are MARS and ARES by extension (because it includes some MARS options and is meant for the same kind of kitchen sink approach). Also, only MARS (and ARES) are the ONLY IF that allows getting both cybernetics AND Psionics. Crazies are a completely separate concept, and while Bursters and Mind Melters are the in the fluff for it, they can be approximated well enough by MARS (and ARES); Also, they have no ability to get cybernetics by HJ, unless they take rich and very rich. Also most of the Strain upgrading edges require MARS or Combat Cyborg. Cyber-knights have enough boost in their IF as is, and are not thematically anti-supernatural or mercenaries.

Momano are by fluff master psionics, but I think requiring Major Psionics is a good enough requirement. It also simplifies the language of gains from Extra Power Points.

As I said about the suggestion, I wasn't convinced, but it might be something that could be tacked on as an outgrowth of this edge.

I bolded the portion I'm confused by. It's true that MMs and Bursters can't use free rolls on the Cybernetics HJ table, but that doesn't mean they can't actually get Cybernetics.

Hell, with a little of luck... Let's see...

Human, HJ Experience and Wisdom table result 10-11 (twice) gets you Rich, with three Edges (Hindrances and Human) still to go. Use your Human slot on Vigor bumping, and then use your attribute points to get to d10s in both Spirit and Vigor. Two Edges: CPA, ICPA, and then use the Rich rolls on the Cybernetics table. You'd be a cybernetically enhanced Mind Melter, most likely with no effect from Strain. So then you get to Veteran, and drop this Edge and get some TW-Modded weapon implants.

I don't see anything about this that is any worse than the Edge existing in the first place, and since the fluff goes there, why not?
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

I do not see a reason it needs to be limited to one particular build from Canada.

This is Savage Rifts a character could be from Federation if Magic, or the Kregor Empire. It The World of Yatzee. The mechanic need not be limited to Canadians
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

[sarcasm]Why not? Everyone loves having every psychic with TW bionics right? Not like we were trying to make one build work. Not like we were trying to limit the exposure of most characters to the option. Sure, open to all...[/sarcasm]

FYI, the class is portable, Palladium happened to shove it into the Canada book. Most are trained in Merctown, Los Alamo, Whykin, and Kingsdale if you must know. Others are probably trained in Old Bones. Maybe Lazlo, but I doubt it. It's an anti-supernatural hunter, so I doubt they'd be from the FoM. Also, it's a uniquely North American concept, like Technowizardry (the Splugorth, Japanese Ninja clans, and some South American nations non-withstanding), Psi-stalkers, and Dogboys. Phase World has different things.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

RFT wrote:When taking an edge the requirements, limitations and advantages should balance. I do not see where being a MARS or ARES belongs in this Edge's requirements rationally. But I can see limiting it to Psionics.


Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Requirements: Veteran, Arcane Background (Psionics), Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment, Spirit d10+, Vigor d10+,
This edge allows the character to even exceed the normal threshold limits of Improved Cyber Psychic Alignment. The character may ignore up to 5 Strain when calculating the penalties for using Arcane Background powers. However the character's PPE and ISP are reduced by half, taking the Power Points Edge only provides 3 Power Points (5 if a Major Psionic) and the range of any arcane powers the character can access are all reduced by half.


To be clear lets show what this Edge is granting versus what it is costing. An edge should be balanced to about +2 if you use my arbitrary major things are +/-2 and minor things are +/-1
Benefits(about +6 worth of advantage)
  • Ability to ignore 3 strain (about 3 edges worth of gain, +6)
Consequence(about -5 worth of limitation)
  • 50% of Base ISP (Major limitation -2)
    40%-50% of ISP from advancements. (varies based on number of times selected, assumed minor -1)
    Ranged powers reduced. (Minor limitation -1)
    Limited to a single arcane background. (Minor limitation -1)
The edge is facinating though if you think about it. It gives just about all the PR hindrences for strain and removes the SR hindrences for strain(for up to 5 pts).

It feels like it is a mistake to not work within the confines of SR and SW rules sets. I am totally for edges breaking or bending the rules, but this one seems to rewrite them all together. As much as I like it, I cannot help but to feel it crosses a boundary too far.

Wouldn't a M-Hunter professional edge that ignores 1 pt of strain suffice, or perhaps doublimg the benifits of cyber psychic alainment edges. The thing about it though, is there is nothing in the M-Hunter that would suggest they deal with cybernetics any better than anyone else. Its not like PR says they get to ignore strain. No they have to deal with it just like everyone else.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote:[sarcasm]Why not? Everyone loves having every psychic with TW bionics right? Not like we were trying to make one build work. Not like we were trying to limit the exposure of most characters to the option. Sure, open to all...[/sarcasm]
Ahhh... 'kay.

Sorry, but part of my concern was that there's already the whole "MM vs. MARS Psychic" thing going on. Putting this into play as a MARS/ARES only thing would pretty much tilt that fairly solidly into the MARS category. And, again, per your own descriptions, the Original Flavor fluff states that both Bursters and Mind Melters can become Mamano Hunters.

I'm not seeing a game balance issue here (and if there is one, it's probably with the Burster rather than the Mind Melter).
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

So since this is all we need aside from the current CPA edges and Major Psionics:

TW Cybernetics

These devices are normal cybernetic devices. They also have added on TW modifications that allow the use of their integrated systems by the psychics like the Momano Techno-Warrior.
TW Implanted Close Combat Weapons (U): Each of the TW weapons listed in the Close Combat section, as well as custom versions, can be integrated into a cyborg’s framework. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.

TW Implanted Ranged Weapon (U): Techno-Wizard Weapons listed in the Ranged Weapons—Personal and the Heavy Weapons sections can potentially be embedded in a cyborg. For personal weapons, Strain is +1 for every 100 pounds (round up). Multiply cost of the TW weapon by 1.5 to get the techno-wizard cybernetic version cost.

TW Implanted Mobility or Defensive Device (U): By modifying a jetpack, jetboots, or forcefield, a TW mobility or defensive device can be implanted in a cyborg. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.
Code

Code: Select all

[b]TW Implanted Close Combat Weapons (U)[/b]: Each of the TW weapons listed in the Close Combat section, as well as custom versions, can be integrated into a cyborg’s framework. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.

[b]TW Implanted Ranged Weapon (U)[/b]: Techno-Wizard Weapons listed in the Ranged Weapons—Personal and the Heavy Weapons sections can potentially be embedded in a cyborg. For personal weapons, Strain is +1 for every 100 pounds (round up). Multiply cost of the TW weapon by 1.5 to get the techno-wizard cybernetic version cost.

[b]TW Implanted Mobility or Defensive Device (U)[/b]: By modifying a jetpack, jetboots, or forcefield, a TW mobility or defensive device can be implanted in a cyborg. Treat the Strain as 1 for every five pounds (round up), and multiply the cost by 1.5 to get the cybernetic version cost.
Momano Anti-Supernatural Specialist [Professional]
Requirements: Seasoned, Major Psionics, Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Specialized training from another Momano gives you increased attunement to your own body despite your enhancements, and teaches how to track your prey more efficiently. Improve the total benefit of Cyber-Psychic Alignment by 1. This combines with Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment. Also gain +2 to survival and tracking when dealing with supernatural creatures.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

I like your professional edge Patrick, with a single minor wording adjustment. But I also like my edge. What if we have them both allowed as follows. A player could go as deep it shallow as they want.
As to the TW stuff. Sounds good.


Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Requirements: Veteran, Improved Cyber-Psychic Alignment, Spirit d10+, Vigor d10+,
This edge allows the character to even exceed the normal threshold limits of Improved Cyber Psychic Alignment. The character may ignore up to 3 Strain when calculating the penalties for using Arcane Background powers. However the character's PPE and ISP are reduced by half, taking the Power Points Edge only provides 3 Power Points (5 if a Major Psionic) and the range of any arcane powers the character can access are all reduced by half.




Momano Anti-Supernatural Specialist [Professional]
Requirements: Seasoned, Major Psionics, Cyber-Psychic Alignment
Specialized training from another Momano gives you increased attunement to your own body despite your enhancements, and teaches how to track your prey more efficiently. Improve the total benefit of Cyber-Psychic Alignment by 1. This combines with Improved and Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment. Also gain +2 to survival and tracking when dealing with supernatural creatures.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

Exceptional as adding one more level, I could get behind. As it is, it's a bit OP. Pender showed in the GM chat how you could conceivably with just the two CPA edges and Major Psychic ignore 4 points of train penalties. The Professional edge pushes it 1 higher. I can see ignore a total of 6, but higher than that is pushing it in my opinion.

Also full credit for the edge goes to VV. :)
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

I now (somehow) am in full agreement with High Command. We must be close.

Should Exceptional Cyber-Psychic Alignment also be limited to Psychics (ie, Major Psionics)? Or are we looking at allowing a 3-point Strain reduction to PPE users? I'll note, just as a way of getting folks to think about that in-depth: in theory, Libertas could get up to a flat d12 with 7 points of Strain (if he upped his stats to the point where he could SURVIVE 7 points of strain, which indicates how insane that is):

+2 Pro/Expert, taken via Born a Hero
+2 Machine Maestro (using a TW combat device)
3 points Strain countered through the CPA Edge chain

Oh, and for powers implanted in the Cybernetics? Just toss an additional +2 Techno-Wizardry on there for 10K Cr. Now at -9 Strain, and still rolling a flat d12 on the powers implanted in the gear.... At that point, who cares about his 'known' powers--he could have 4 installed on each of the installed weapons, giving him pretty much the full Power list....

Now, granted, he'd need some pretty major stat-boosts to get there, but it'd be theoretically doable.

I'm just generally inclined, I admit, to throw psychics some love in this arena. Limiting Exceptional CPA to Major Psionics seems reasonable to me, but I am not going to fight it out, having given my warnings.
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
High Command
The Savage Inquisition
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:10 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by High Command »

I can get behind that reasoning Freemage I'd agree it'd be a mistake to add it for a psychic. Now that still leaves it open to Cyber-knights, Crazies, Mystics and Dragons, but I'm willing to give every other psychic a boost at the expense of powering up those four. Those four, really more than anything else are also a part of why I fought so hard for this to be MARS only. I'd be willing to let it be both if we limit it to MARS and ARES. That way its a boost for MARS builds over all mages and all psychics.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote:I can get behind that reasoning Freemage I'd agree it'd be a mistake to add it for a psychic. Now that still leaves it open to Cyber-knights, Crazies, Mystics and Dragons, but I'm willing to give every other psychic a boost at the expense of powering up those four. Those four, really more than anything else are also a part of why I fought so hard for this to be MARS only. I'd be willing to let it be both if we limit it to MARS and ARES. That way its a boost for MARS builds over all mages and all psychics.
Here's a thought--we make Master Psionic a pre-req for both ECPA and Momano A-S Specialist. This eliminates the two most abuseable candidates (Dragons and Mystics), and Cyber-Knights can't use Cybernetics, so they're not eligible in any case.That leaves Crazies, Mind Melters, MARS/ARES and Bursters as the available candidates. I've really got no issue with Mind Melters getting access to this (for reasons I've stated up-thread). Of the remainder, only the Burster seems likely to be any sort of balance issue at all (a Crazy who goes for Master Psionic and takes the boosting Edges to get the huge Psionics Skill bonuses is going to be less effective as their actual role as a murder-machine, and would mostly end up having to use the cybernetics to counter the losses in murder-ness).
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Ndreare
Savage Siri
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
Contact:

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Ndreare »

For the professional edge yes. But I do not think so for the Exceptional edge. In my opinion it is not needed.



PS: I would point out that the rules do not exist in a vacuum. It is iterated both in SWD and by Clint that the GM is there to stop abuse.


Also as a note like bonuses from equipment do not stack, you only get the highest one.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Freemage
Savage Senior
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Freemage »

RFT wrote:For the professional edge yes. But I do not think so for the Exceptional edge. In my opinion it is not needed.



PS: I would point out that the rules do not exist in a vacuum. It is iterated both in SWD and by Clint that the GM is there to stop abuse.


Also as a note like bonuses from equipment do not stack, you only get the highest one.
I am aware of that last point. My point was that each piece of gear, equipped with four different powers, could then have two minor mods that would only boost those 4 powers--but at 9 implants, that's 36 powers being rolled at a flat d12. Who needs 'known powers' at that point?
GM Bennies (7th SET, Joker's Jokers): 8/8
OOC Comments
GMC Bennies:
  • EJ 2/2
    Thoomba 0/2
    Khem 2/2
PCs, 8 Active Slots, 3 Signature Items
*Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
Serival Drumm, 24th COT
*Ophelia Monk, Mercy Team 6
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Mille Visage, Northern Gun Mercs
*Charon, Black Company
*Hero, Lost Jungle/TL

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
Lance, 24th COT/Kingsdale (Retired)
Ramson Gourdaine, Phase World (Blazed)
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC (Frozen)
Sir Blurre, 18th COT/New West (Retired)
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited (Frozen)
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless (Frozen?)
.
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Freemage wrote:
High Command wrote:I can get behind that reasoning Freemage I'd agree it'd be a mistake to add it for a psychic. Now that still leaves it open to Cyber-knights, Crazies, Mystics and Dragons, but I'm willing to give every other psychic a boost at the expense of powering up those four. Those four, really more than anything else are also a part of why I fought so hard for this to be MARS only. I'd be willing to let it be both if we limit it to MARS and ARES. That way its a boost for MARS builds over all mages and all psychics.
Here's a thought--we make Master Psionic a pre-req for both ECPA and Momano A-S Specialist. This eliminates the two most abuseable candidates (Dragons and Mystics), and Cyber-Knights can't use Cybernetics, so they're not eligible in any case.That leaves Crazies, Mind Melters, MARS/ARES and Bursters as the available candidates. I've really got no issue with Mind Melters getting access to this (for reasons I've stated up-thread). Of the remainder, only the Burster seems likely to be any sort of balance issue at all (a Crazy who goes for Master Psionic and takes the boosting Edges to get the huge Psionics Skill bonuses is going to be less effective as their actual role as a murder-machine, and would mostly end up having to use the cybernetics to counter the losses in murder-ness).
Dragons cannot take cybernetics.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3648
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Oh amd I wonder with Arcane duality if cyber psychic alignment would offset both sets of arcane backgrounds. Power ppts seem to be seperate, perhaps so would psyberpychic aligment.
Field Team Six Bennies
3/6
User avatar
Venatus Vinco
Bronze Patron
Bronze Patron
Posts: 2872
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:30 pm

Re: Techno-Wizard Cybernetics / Bionics

Post by Venatus Vinco »

Pender: I like the idea the Cyber Psychic Alignment has to be taken for each Arcane Background. That limits the mystic's ability to taker cybernetics. Since Cyberknights and Dragons cannot that really takes everything off the table.

Also, I made a quick MARS Personal Concept Momano Hunter. Worked pretty good.

Hannah Hawkins, Momano Hunter

VV
Signature
Didn't have a signature but wanted the 1 EP for using OOC tags!
Locked

Return to “Archive”