Signature Items

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RFT
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Signature Items

Post by RFT » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:23 am

Buying a signature item can be awesome and fun. But we need a way to let them be as awesome as possible without overshadowing the other players.

Currently this is the rules we have. http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=1443
EP Menu For Shaintar wrote: Special Gear
Your hero has access to some special gear. You must include a brief statement of how this item came to your character.
(5 EP) One of your items is White Silver or Iron Wood gaining the resistance to destruction and ability to trigger vulnerabilities of foes.
(10 EP) Gain a Signature Item Slot. This is a custom item equal to an Artificer item of your character’s Rank. Maximum of 1 signature or patron item per character. The player proposes the items and works in the site item validation, once approved the GM arranges for the items delivery in play, or at character creation as appropriate.
Another option i was thinking is perhaps 2 Minors and 1 Major per character Rank.

In both cases the artifact would grow with the character as his bond to it increases.


What are your opinions?
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Lysennia Moonsinger » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:54 am

First thoughts. . . for 5EP, am ironwood (did you mean everwood?) or White silver item? Such items could logically be acquired though play, especially if the player goes to the right place. Hence my question about going to Mindoth's Tower to acquire a Druid Staff. Right place, materials available, according to the details a lot cheaper than many items you can just acquire off the shelf. Does make me wonder if such things need to be an EP buy.

For 10 EP a signature item is considerably more powerful than a 5EP, special material item. especially if it grows with the character. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it again brings into question the 5EP buy above.
What happens if the item becomes lost/destroyed? Will another such item "become available" or is it just an expended resource, kinda like spending EP on something ephemeral?
How does it compare to taking Soul-Bonded/Improved Soul-Bonded Edges? Would such an item have to be replaced because a character spent XP on it, or is that advance (potentially two advances) lost forever with a destroyed item, like one acquired through EP?

Example

The following is an entry for new Druid gear in Mindoth's Tower

Druid’s Staff
An Everwood staff filled with Life energies, a boon to any Druid.
Druid’s Staff (Str+d4, Parry +2, Reach 1, 2 hands, 5 Essence, 1 less maintenance penalty, +2 to resist Disruption)
Cost: 220; Value: -6; Availability: -6; Weight: 8

An essentially off the shelf item, albeit one that would only be available to Druids, and probably from maybe one or two places in the world. Lysennia should be able to acquire one through the druids . Its availability reflects that it is not commonly available, but I'd argue, in the right place, should be available. Also the price (220 comparative monetary value), is way cheaper than even partial chainmail, yet it has potentially 5 minors (+1 parry, 5 essence, 1 less maintenance penalty, +2 resist disruption, everwood properties). Though this may be in error because anything else with a value rating of -6 is generally having a purchase price of n/a eg Elvish weapons, or Shay'Von leather armour (which yes Lysennia could use :) ) indicating again that it's more a matter of being in the right place to get it.

Right, well that's opened the debate up. . . have at it. :)
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Aronan » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:32 am

Shaintair: Immortal Legends has some pages on magic items and loot starting on page 247.
Loot List
loost_list.png
Minor Qualities for Weapons Are Listed As:
  • +1 Hit
    +1 Damage
    +1 AP
    +1 Parry
    +5 Essence
    Everwood
    White Silver
Similar lists are available for Armor (+1 armor, half weight, etc.), Caster, and Misc. items,

Major Qualities Includes powers or Edges and includes some guidelines for adding powers.
Adding Powers
powers.png
To me this is the genesis of the Techno-Wizard System in Savage Rifts: Major and Minor improvements, with a very similar breakdown. It remains less powerful because of the lower number of potential Major/Minor qualities (max looks like 1 major, 2 minor), the lower bonuses (+1 for most minor qualities instead of +2 in SR), and because you are adding these to fantasy weapons and armor and not already over the top super technology items.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:50 am

@Lysennia,
Signature items are limited to one per character, but if it is destroyed it gets replaced. Other EP investments are one and done.

The 5 EP options is for stuff like Exotic items that have a -6 availability to speed the character along, it is an override on the setting rule stating that players can start with -2 availability items and maybe one -4 item. They are not meant to replace what can be had in game. For example right now you guys captured an enemy with a awesome staff. That is simply free to the group to come o go. if someone claims it in character. However a Signature item is like a soul bonded item. It is part of your character slot and needs replacement within a session or so if the GM destroys it or takes it away.


@VV
I will look into it. While obviously I will not have people rolling dice for a Signature item, I think it is more in line with Shaintar's way of handling things.

Perhaps let the player make the item and say treat it as if you had a 1, a 4, and a 6 roll then assign them I do not know. I will read all the sShaintar stuff in the main book today again.

I want the effect to be something like what we have in Savage Rifts where I can run with or without a Signature item and still be cool and equal to my allies.
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Tieronar » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:34 am

I think these items should definitely have some sort of story behind them as well.

Or something with the equivalent of a level-appropriate Edge.

"Powers" should require a PP expenditure. (Maybe item PP = Spirit Die? I've done that before for races with abilities like shapeshiting.
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Tieronar » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:34 am

Shape SHIFTING
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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:56 am

I agree with both of these points
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Tieronar » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:36 pm

I'm not fond of the random draw thing, because that opens the door to one player getting "One minor" and someone else getting "Two Major"

In a game like SW with balanced (mostly...some of the Shaintar stuff is broken) character generation, non randomness in advancement is key.
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Venatus Vinco » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:32 pm

T,

I think random is off the table for all the reasons you mentioned and Rob's deathly allergy to it.

I only posted the loot chart to show the various power levels.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by Angis Ironheart » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:06 am

Sounds good to me. I don't have a signature item idea for Angis anyway, and already "heirloomed" up his axe, so can't really get rid of that! LOL Unless there is some way to transfer qualities like "magic".
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Potion: Immune to disease for several days
Angis Ironheart Character Sheet
Parry: 9; Toughness: Melee 13 (4)/Ranged 15 (6); Pace: 5
Heart of Stone/Magical Resistance: Armor 5 vs. Magic; +5 to resist Magic
Crossbow bolts: 19 (Loaded: 3/3)
Shield Essence: 4/4
Bennies: 4/3
Adventure Card
  • Stand at the Forge: Play during combat with the forces of the Kal-a-Nar Empire. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until the end of combat.
  • False Prophets: Play during combat with the Forces of the Prelacy. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until end of combat.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:16 pm

Ok how about the following?

Special Gear
2 EP: One standard item of -4 Availability is made available to your character. No resource roll required.
(5 EP) The character gains a Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance.
(5 EP) The character's Soul Bonded item becomes an Improved Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance.
(10 EP) The character gains a Improved Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance. (This counts as a signature item slot per site rules)
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Corrigon » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:36 pm

what does a soul bonded item do?
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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Shaintar Legends Arise pg 78 wrote:Soul-Bonded Item
Requirements: Seasoned, Spirit d6+
Throughout the history of Shaintar, the flows of magic
have been strong enough that some individuals of great
worth develop mystical connections to the items they use.
This trend has increased greatly in the most recent years;
some believe it is tied to the appearance of the mysterious
Filaments and Loci, all evidence that the very Patterns of
magic and creation in Shaintar are somehow changing.
In taking this Edge, the player selects one of his Hero’s
items — a sword, a suit of armor, a staff, a pendant — and
undertakes to develop some kind of story regarding how
he came to own it. It may be as simple as random chance,
or as developed as the long history of a family heirloom.
The item in question gains two Minor Qualities; look at the
list under Arcane Artificer (see page 72)
for appropriate
suggestions. The GM must approve all choices, and they
should be story-driven and appropriate to the item in
question.
Shaintar Legends Arise pg 79 wrote:Improved Soul-Bonded Item
Requirements: Veteran, Soul-Bonded Item (same
item)
In taking this Edge, the player may now select another
Minor Quality as well as a power to add to the item
. If
there is a Duration for the chosen power, it will only last
for the base Duration and must be re- activated with
an action. If the Hero is not an arcane caster, he must
use his Spirit to activate or use the power. If there are any
extra effects for the power based on added Essence being
spent, the Hero can add each such effect by suffering a
-1 to his roll to use the power. The chosen power can
only be up to one Rank higher than the Hero, and the
GM must approve the choice.
So a signature item level ability would be 3 minors and 1 power that can be used essentially without Essence.

These are enhancements to an already owned item, so if you had some some ultra awesome sword like the Prelacy exclusive one with +2 Parry and as good as an elven blade you would stack them.
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Angis Ironheart » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:57 am

Sounds cool. What if an item already has a quality, like Angis' +1 Fighting heirloom axe? Would I get less upgrades, up to those given, or would it stack?
Character Tracker
Potion: Immune to disease for several days
Angis Ironheart Character Sheet
Parry: 9; Toughness: Melee 13 (4)/Ranged 15 (6); Pace: 5
Heart of Stone/Magical Resistance: Armor 5 vs. Magic; +5 to resist Magic
Crossbow bolts: 19 (Loaded: 3/3)
Shield Essence: 4/4
Bennies: 4/3
Adventure Card
  • Stand at the Forge: Play during combat with the forces of the Kal-a-Nar Empire. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until the end of combat.
  • False Prophets: Play during combat with the Forces of the Prelacy. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until end of combat.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by Venatus Vinco » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:31 am

RFT wrote:These are enhancements to an already owned item, so if you had some some ultra awesome sword like the Prelacy exclusive one with +2 Parry and as good as an elven blade you would stack them.
Sounds like the answer is yes.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:18 am

It would stack with the existing properties.
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Re: Signature Items

Post by Angis Ironheart » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:48 am

Great!
Character Tracker
Potion: Immune to disease for several days
Angis Ironheart Character Sheet
Parry: 9; Toughness: Melee 13 (4)/Ranged 15 (6); Pace: 5
Heart of Stone/Magical Resistance: Armor 5 vs. Magic; +5 to resist Magic
Crossbow bolts: 19 (Loaded: 3/3)
Shield Essence: 4/4
Bennies: 4/3
Adventure Card
  • Stand at the Forge: Play during combat with the forces of the Kal-a-Nar Empire. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until the end of combat.
  • False Prophets: Play during combat with the Forces of the Prelacy. This character receives +2 to all Fighting, Shooting, Throwing, and Spellcasting rolls, as well as damage until end of combat.

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Re: Signature Items

Post by RFT » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:22 pm

Okay, rules updated as follows to allow buying signature items and stuff with EP when you just cannot wait for the story to get there.


Special Gear
Your hero has access to some special gear. You must include a brief statement of how this item came to your character. A brief story is required for each selection other than the Rich Man's Toys.
Special Gear
(2 EP) Rich Man's Toys: One standard item of -4 Availability is made available to your character. No resource roll required.
(5 EP) It is More Than That: The character gains a Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance.
(5 EP) It Has Always Meant More to Me: The character's Soul Bonded item becomes an Improved Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance.
(10 EP) It Really Means so Much to Me: The character gains a Improved Soul Bonded item, following the rules of the edge, without taking the advance. (This counts as a signature item slot per site rules)
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