Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

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GM's only please Vote

Poll ended at Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:03 pm

Yes; let's try it and see what happens
7
88%
No; this is still to rough and needs to go back
0
No votes
Abstain; I really do not care.
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

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Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:01 pm

Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!
Whether exposure to cosmic rays that grant amazing abilities or access to ultra powerful alien technology these heroes have extraordinary abilities that make them larger than life. In the inter-dimensional melting pot of Rifts Earth beings with extraordinary power arrive daily through random Rifts while others are born in our midst imbued with powers through mutation, scientific manipulation, or genetic experimentation. Regardless of the source of their powers these heroes can’t avoid center stage for long. After all, with great power comes...well you know the rest.

HERO’S JOURNEY (FIVE ROLLS)
Savage Rifts Superheroes gain three rolls on any of Education, Experience & Wisdom, Training, or Underworld & Black Ops. Plus, two rolls on any tables, except those dealing with Cybernetics, Magic and Psionics.

HEROES WITHOUT EQUAL
One of only two ways of bringing the pure fury and power of Superheroes into your Savage Rifts game, the Savage Rifts Superhero is a powerhouse on par with any character in the Tomorrow Legion.

WITH POWER, LIMITS
Due to the incredible power, Savage Rifts Superheroes limitations based on them by karma, happenstance, and the circumstances of their empowerment. These characters will choose from the options in Complications to define precisely what it is about them that complicates their lives.

SUPERHERO ABILITIES AND BONUSES
  • Awesome Power: Gain the Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC). The character is a Heavy Hitter Rising Star, and starts with 40 Power Points with a power limit of 30 points in any single power, after any modifiers.
  • Rising Stars: Super Heroes may take the Power Points Edge (no more than once per Rank as usual) to add 5 additional points to their existing abilities, or purchase new ones (there is no New Power Edge) These points may be saved, but must be recorded clearly on the advancement record.

SUPERHERO COMPLICATIONS
  • Achilles Heel: Even the most powerful heroes have weaknesses, quirks, and foibles. The character however does not receive any points for these additional Hindrances or Negative Racial Traits.
    The player must chose 6 points of Hindrances or Negative Racial Traits as follows
    1-point:
    • All Thumbs
    • Anemic
    • Bad Eyes--Minor (Requires Glasses)
    • Hard of Hearing--Minor
    • Obese
    • Pacifist--Minor
    • Phobia--Minor
    • Poverty
    • Environmental Weakness
    • Frail -1
    • Non-Standard Physiology
    • Poor Parry -1
    • Small Racial -1
    • Slow -2"
    • Allergy--Minor
    • Weakness--Minor
    • Others as approved by the GM
    2-point:
    • Arrogant
    • Bad Eyes--Major (Cannot be corrected)
    • Bad Luck
    • Blind
    • Clueless
    • Elderly
    • Habit--Major
    • Hard of Hearing--Major
    • Lame
    • One Arm
    • One Eye
    • One Leg
    • Pacifist--Major
    • Phobia--Major
    • Small
    • Yellow
    • Young
    • Attribute Penalty -1
    • Dependency
    • Frail -2
    • Poor Parry -2
    • Small Racial -2
    • Slow -4"
    • Monologuer
    • Mania--Major
    • Alien Form
    • Allergy--Major
    • Power Negation
    • Terminally Ill
    • Weakness--Major
    • Others as approved by the GM
    3-point:
    • Attribute Penalty -2
    • Poor Parry -3
    • Others as approved by the GM -3
  • Dimensional Restrictions: Supers can be any race story-wise, but they must be Human for purposes of character creation mechanics. Use super powers and hindrances to represent a specific race.
  • Enemies Everywhere!: The Coalition States and Dunscon's Federation of Magic see these beings as dangerous aberrations at best and off-world scum at worst. Regardless, no matter how human looking or how magical their abilities, these beings with great and mysterious powers are dangerous and to be destroyed or studied - in a lab. This counts as the Wanted (Minor) hindrance with each organization.
  • Restricted Paths: Supers cannot take any other Arcane Background. As mentioned in the edge's description, cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation to a degree.
    Special Hindrances Available to Super Powered Heroes: the following are additional Hindrances available for selection that have special application to Super Powered Heroes.
    • Allergy (Major/Minor) Your character suffers an aversion to a common condition or substance, such as water, fire, cold, sunlight, etc. Exposure to that substance (generally within six feet of it) inflicts a –2 penalty to all your character’s Trait rolls as a Minor Hindrance. As a Major Hindrance, your hero suffers a –4 penalty to all Trait rolls and his Pace is halved. This continues while exposed and for 2d6 rounds after the substance is removed or shielded somehow.
    • Dependency (Major): The creature must consume or have contact with some sort of relatively common substance. Creatures from water-based worlds, for example, might need to immerse themselves in water one hour out of every 24; plant people might need an hour of sunlight a day. If they don’t have the required contact, they become automatically Fatigued each day until they’re Incapacitated. A day after that, they perish. Each hour spent recovering with the appropriate substance restores a level of Fatigue.
    • Weakness (Major/Minor): Your character is more susceptible to a specific Power Trapping (see below), such as ice and cold, fire and heat, radiation, magic, darkness, light, air, sound, and so on. He suffers +4 damage when hit by an attack of that type, or –4 to resist other types of effects. As a Major Hindrance, the hero or villain is incredibly vulnerable to the Power Type and should avoid it at all costs. He still resists at –4 but damage is doubled.
      Energy: Cold, Darkness, Electricity, Fire/Heat, Kinetic, Light, Magnetism, Mental, Radiation, Sound, Wind.
      Matter: Air, Biological (Animal/Human tissue), Earth/Stone, Force or Solid Light, Metal, Plant, Water.
ICONIC FRAMEWORK STARTING GEAR
  • Begin with the starting gear from any Iconic Framework except M.A.R.S.




Original Submission

Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!
Whether exposure to cosmic rays that grant amazing abilities or access to ultra powerful alien technology these heroes have extraordinary abilities that make them larger than life. In the inter-dimensional melting pot of Rifts Earth beings with extraordinary power arrive daily through random Rifts while others are born in our midst imbued with powers through mutation, scientific manipulation, or genetic experimentation. Regardless of the source of their powers these heroes can’t avoid center stage for long. After all, with great power comes...well you know the rest.

HERO’S JOURNEY (FIVE ROLLS)
Savage Rifts Superheroes gain three rolls on any of Education, Experience & Wisdom, Training, or Underworld & Black Ops. Plus, two rolls on any tables, except those dealing with Cybernetics, Magic and Psionics.

HEROES WITHOUT EQUAL
One of only two ways of bringing the pure fury and power of Superheroes into your Savage Rifts game, the Savage Rifts Superhero is a powerhouse on par with any character in the Tomorrow Legion.

WITH POWER, LIMITS
Due to the incredible power, Savage Rifts Superheroes limitations based on them by karma, happenstance, and the circumstances of their empowerment. These characters will choose from the options in Complications to define precisely what it is about them that complicates their lives.

SUPERHERO ABILITIES AND BONUSES
  • Awesome Power: Gain the Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC). The character is a Heavy Hitter Rising Star and starts with 30 Power Points. Superheroes also have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges from the Super Hero Companion.
  • Extreme Power: these Heroes are larger than life and are never considered an unarmed defender, and have access to the Super Powers Companion Power Tricks setting rules.
  • Rising Stars: Super Heroes may take the Power Points Edge (no more than once per Rank as usual) to add 5 additional points to their existing abilities, or purchase new ones (there is no New Power Edge).


SUPERHERO COMPLICATIONS
  • Achilles Heel: Even the most powerful heroes have weaknesses, quirks, and foibles. Choose 1 Additional Major or 2 Minor Hindrances. Alternately, the GM may allow a character to choose negative racial abilities of 1 or 2 points instead - useful when emulating a specific race.
    You may also utilize those listed below:
    • Allergy (Major/Minor) Your character suffers an aversion to a common condition or substance, such as water, fire, cold, sunlight, etc. Exposure to that substance (generally within six feet of it) inflicts a –2 penalty to all your character’s Trait rolls as a Minor Hindrance. As a Major Hindrance, your hero suffers a –4 penalty to all Trait rolls and his Pace is halved. This continues while exposed and for 2d6 rounds after the substance is removed or shielded somehow.
    • Dependency (Major): The creature must consume or have contact with some sort of relatively common substance. Creatures from water-based worlds, for example, might need to immerse themselves in water one hour out of every 24; plant people might need an hour of sunlight a day. If they don’t have the required contact, they become automatically Fatigued each day until they’re Incapacitated. A day after that, they perish. Each hour spent recovering with the appropriate substance restores a level of Fatigue.
    • Weakness (Major/Minor): Your character is more susceptible to a specific Power Trapping (see below), such as ice and cold, fire and heat, radiation, magic, darkness, light, air, sound, and so on. He suffers +4 damage when hit by an attack of that type, or –4 to resist other types of effects. As a Major Hindrance, the hero or villain is incredibly vulnerable to the Power Type and should avoid it at all costs. He still resists at –4 but damage is doubled.
      Energy: Cold, Darkness, Electricity, Fire/Heat, Kinetic, Light, Magnetism, Mental, Radiation, Sound, Wind.
      Matter: Air, Biological (Animal/Human tissue), Earth/Stone, Force or Solid Light, Metal, Plant, Water.
  • Dimensional Restrictions: Supers can be any race story-wise, but they must be Human for purposes of character creation mechanics. Use super powers and hindrances to represent a specific race.
  • Enemies Everywhere!: The Coalition States and Dunscon's Federation of Magic see these beings as dangerous aberrations at best and off-world scum at worst. Regardless, no matter how human looking or how magical their abilities, these beings with great and mysterious powers are dangerous and to be destroyed or studied - in a lab. This counts as the Wanted (Minor) hindrance with each organization.
  • Restricted Paths: Supers cannot take any other Arcane Background. As mentioned in the edge's description, cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation to a degree.
  • Super Karma: Super powered characters are larger than life, with faults and responsibilities as great as their miraculous powers. For this reason, supers may take one additional Major or two additional Minor Hindrances (including from from the list above under Achilles Heal) during character creation. This can be used normally, or to grant them 10 additional Power Points. These bonus points do not increase the character’s Power Limit.
ICONIC FRAMEWORK STARTING GEAR
  • Begin with the starting gear from any Iconic Framework except M.A.R.S..

New Powers
The following new power is available to Super Powered Heroes with GM permission.

Inner Reservoir (1/level)
You have a pool of mystical or psionic energy that you can use to power techno-wizard or Arcane items. Each level of this power gives you 1 PPE or ISP (choose one) that can only be used to activate and power TW/Arcane devices. These PPE or ISP regenerate at the rate of 1 per hour.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:01 pm

I think this is edited correctly based on the discussion thread.

The original proposal was 3 power points for 5 PPE, I changed that to 1 for 1 in suggestions and again here.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:03 pm

Remove super karma and the rest of the SPC settimg rules then you got my vote.

Super Karma strikes me as a setting rule. I would allow it if the hindrance was power negation or a major weakness.

Also ansolutely no need for the new power inner reserve.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:36 am

Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:03 pm
Remove super karma and the rest of the SPC settimg rules then you got my vote.

Super Karma strikes me as a setting rule. I would allow it if the hindrance was power negation or a major weakness.

Also ansolutely no need for the new power inner reserve.
I am OK if you feel you have to vote against it. However I'm leaving super karma based on the feedback in the thread where everybody voted related to whether or not super karma should be included.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:32 am

Its like having characters from deadlands be able to count coupe, or ravaged earth with their knacks or dark hero option. Its a little extra they can get because of the setting. But it is their setting, and doesn’t need to be or even should be brought into the SR setting. You got all the setting rules you need right their in the back of the book. You want super karama as an option fine but you got to give it to everyone.

This whole only supers are affected by x is just wrong. Equality man that is what I need.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Please just rule supers can use TW items that have ppts to power them using spirit roll. Then it is a yes.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:01 pm

Okay,
Please review again, removed reference to setting rules, removed reference to Power Reserve.
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Phase World - The Remorseless 10
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Abreaz (The Target) 2 elan, Assassin, Can spend a Benny on a Joker for the Drop, Quick, Imp Level Headed, highly tactical, will attack the weakest target until defeated
  • -0 None spent
  • The Pursuit
    Nemesis (Captain - Temporal Wizard) 2
    Royce (Second Officer - Charmer) 4 elan
    Grudge (Security - Brute) 1
    Hiesh (Tactical - Illusionist) 2
    Iasah (Ally - Godling) 4 elan
    Slip (Partial Cyborg - Pilot) 2
  • Naruni
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Tribe of One » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:17 pm

EDIT: After Rob's changes to the OP, this small rewrite pretty much just ties the extra Hindrances/negative traits to the Super Karma option. I don't particularly care, to be honest.
Nevermind. Let's just get on with it.
Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!
Whether exposure to cosmic rays that grant amazing abilities or access to ultra powerful alien technology these heroes have extraordinary abilities that make them larger than life. In the inter-dimensional melting pot of Rifts Earth beings with extraordinary power arrive daily through random Rifts while others are born in our midst imbued with powers through mutation, scientific manipulation, or genetic experimentation. Regardless of the source of their powers these heroes can’t avoid center stage for long. After all, with great power comes ... well you know the rest.

HERO’S JOURNEY (FIVE ROLLS)
Savage Rifts Superheroes gain three rolls on any of Education, Experience & Wisdom, Training, or Underworld & Black Ops. Plus, two rolls on any tables, except those dealing with Cybernetics, Magic and Psionics.

HEROES WITHOUT EQUAL
One of only two ways of bringing the pure fury and power of Superheroes into your Savage Rifts game, the Savage Rifts Superhero is a powerhouse on par with any character in the Tomorrow Legion.

WITH POWER, LIMITS
Savage Rifts Superheroes blessed with the most powerful abilities often find themselves saddled with limitations, as well. Almost all find themselves hunted once their powers are known, and those with additional abilities often sport mutations, weaknesses and other complications.

SUPERHERO ABILITIES AND BONUSES
  • Awesome Power: Gain the Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC). The character is a Heavy Hitter Rising Star and starts with 30 Power Points.
  • Rising Stars: Super Heroes may take the Power Points Edge (no more than once per Rank as usual) to add 5 additional points to their existing abilities, or purchase new ones (there is no New Power Edge).
  • Super Karma: Super Heroes may take the Super Karma option to gain an additional 10 Power Points to start. If they choose this option, they must select an additional 6 points of negative traits from the Achilles Heel table below to represent mutations or other weaknesses that come with such power.


SUPERHERO COMPLICATIONS
  • Dimensional Restrictions: Supers can be any race story-wise, but they must be Human for purposes of character creation mechanics. Use super powers and hindrances to represent a specific race.
  • Enemies Everywhere!: The Coalition States and Dunscon's Federation of Magic see these beings as dangerous aberrations at best and off-world scum at worst. Regardless, no matter how human looking or how magical their abilities, these beings with great and mysterious powers are dangerous and to be destroyed or studied − in a lab. This counts as the Wanted (Minor) hindrance with each organization.
  • Restricted Paths: Supers cannot take any other Arcane Background. As mentioned in the edge's description, cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a -1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation to a degree.

    ACHILLES HEEL
    Super Heroes that take the Super Karma option gain greater power, balanced by significant weaknesses. They must select 6 points of negative traits from the following table:

    TABLE GOES HERE. PATRICK WILL WORK SOMETHING UP, INCLUDED ARE A FEW EXAMPLES
    • Allergy (1-2 points) Your character suffers an aversion to a common condition or substance, such as water, fire, cold, sunlight, etc. Exposure to that substance (generally within six feet of it) inflicts a –2 penalty to all your character’s Trait rolls as a 1-point drawback. As a 2-point drawback, your hero suffers a –4 penalty to all Trait rolls and his Pace is halved. This continues while exposed and for 2d6 rounds after the substance is removed or shielded somehow.
    • Dependency (2 points): The creature must consume or have contact with some sort of relatively common substance. Creatures from water-based worlds, for example, might need to immerse themselves in water one hour out of every 24; plant people might need an hour of sunlight a day. If they don’t have the required contact, they become automatically Fatigued each day until they’re Incapacitated. A day after that, they perish. Each hour spent recovering with the appropriate substance restores a level of Fatigue.
    • Weakness (1-2 points): Your character is more susceptible to a specific Power Trapping (see below), such as ice and cold, fire and heat, radiation, magic, darkness, light, air, sound, and so on. As a 1-point drawback, he suffers +4 damage when hit by an attack of that type, or –4 to resist other types of effects. As a 2-point drawback, the hero or villain is incredibly vulnerable to the Power Type and should avoid it at all costs. He still resists at –4 but damage is doubled. Energy: Cold, Darkness, Electricity, Fire/Heat, Kinetic, Light, Magnetism, Mental, Radiation, Sound, Wind. Matter: Air, Biological (Animal/Human tissue), Earth/Stone, Force or Solid Light, Metal, Plant, Water.
    ICONIC FRAMEWORK STARTING GEAR
    • Begin with the starting gear from any Iconic Framework except M.A.R.S..
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Heracles » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:32 pm

To be clear up front, I have no stake in this fight, and I'm not a GM so that cuts the weight of my opinion. But to me? The previous write-up was better, Super Karma or not. This one has way too much, both positive and negative, in points and hindrances/negative points, to it. I'm speaking from running the numbers, just the FEEL of it to me. 30 points in powers, the Achilles' Heel, etc in the previous write-up in the Community Projects thread felt like a good not-full-on super-hero while still feeling 'super'.

This write-up feels like too many up-front points with the ability to get a lot more, too many negatives, but again - I'm not a numbers guy. I'm not crunching the numbers for balance versus IFs in the book or whatever. The main thing to me was that the previous end-write-ups felt like a little Super in a Savage Rifts game, which was kind of cool as you got some of the flavor without playing Heroes Unlimited suddenly.

I mean Jon slammed down in both write-ups about how we shouldn't use rules and whatnot that aren't from Savage Rifts and leave that to those specific games - well, then why even bring this stuff over to Savage Rifts?? Just use the SR book and not use Deadlands stuff, or SPC2 stuff or whatever. Isn't that the point? That some people at least want to merge some things together? - To be clear I am not slamming Jon nor his opinions. He is absolutely entitled to them!!

I don't know. Ultimately, I likely won't use these as they were and will scrap the one I've been working on the last few days using the Community Projects write-up. I was almost down with a weather controller built on the 30pts that I think would have been interesting - but making them with this write-up, or some things you could build with 40 (or really 50 with Rising Stars at creation) points seems kind of insane and staggering - and belongs in a supers game. Shrug. That's my 2 cents I guess for whatever it's worth.
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Weapon in hand: Chain Long Sword, Vibrosword or Wilk’s 447 Laser Rifle

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Freemage » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:06 pm

Alan, just so you know, the numbers you posted are a bit off: it would be 45 at character creation. (30 + 10 Super Karma + 5 from taking your Novice Power Points option right away).

The thing is, I'll be honest--even with all that, you can make a very potent one-trick pony, but if you want to try to match the typical Rifts character at skills or raw damage potential, you're going to come up hurting, unless you throw a lot of points at Super Skill and Super Attribute to play catch-up. (Also, keep in mind that if you want to play a non-human, you have to buy all the racial traits here.) That eats up points over time.

I will say that GMs need to be on the watch for Modifier Abuse. If someone takes lots of Requires Activation/Contingency/etc stuff, they've built their character with a weakness that is meant to be exploited--honestly, most of those negatives should come up about once a session, at a minimum. RA means that you can get caught short sleeping; Contingent pyramids can get shut down with a single well-applied anti-power power on the target.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:55 am

Freemage wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:06 pm
I will say that GMs need to be on the watch for Modifier Abuse. If someone takes lots of Requires Activation/Contingency/etc stuff, they've built their character with a weakness that is meant to be exploited--honestly, most of those negatives should come up about once a session, at a minimum. RA means that you can get caught short sleeping; Contingent pyramids can get shut down with a single well-applied anti-power power on the target.
This is a core concept. As a GM I normally look at the points saved on modifiers. Then roll a d10, if it is equal to or higher, then i bring up the effect that causes the modifier in the combat. This keeps them from meaning nothing but free points.



Also much like Glitterboys, MARS PCO, Cyborgs and Dragons I agree some Scrutiny is always needed on the part of the GM.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 am

PS: As an example when I made a super for Freemage's game I told the GM in the PM that I deliberately wanted to abuse Notice and Matter Control (Shaping) and planned on having a ridiculous Notice.

This gave him the option as the GM to say yes or no as to if it would be appropriate for his game for a Character with such a super high skill.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 am

There needs to be a note on Achilles Heel that strictly role-playing hindrances are generally ill suited for the hindrances.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Tribe of One » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:03 am

High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 am
There needs to be a note on Achilles Heel that strictly role-playing hindrances are generally ill suited for the hindrances.
+1. Should be physical mutations or mechanical complications with concrete effects, and not just stacking a bunch of Charisma penalties. Although I'd still allow a character to forego the extra 10 Power Points to not mess with Achilles Heel at all.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Koshnek » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:57 pm

@Heracles, as Soren said, at maximum the rising star IF comes up 5 points lower than the original IF’s maximum (at the cost of a starting edge; super edge can only purchase combat edges). At minimum, 10 points less.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:02 pm

Koshnek wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:57 pm
@Heracles, as Soren said, at maximum the rising star IF comes up 5 points lower than the original IF’s maximum (at the cost of a starting edge; super edge can only purchase combat edges). At minimum, 10 points less.
Actually the maximum delta is 15 (veteran to even the field) minimum is even match.

Old Option
  • 40 points and 5 HJ rolls
    or
  • 45 points, + Super Karma = 55 points
New Option
  • 40 points and 5 HJ rolls
    or
  • 45 points and 5 HJ rolls
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Koshnek » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:35 pm

I see. Didn’t realize “super karma” was mandatory now, in that case I am wrong. That’s what I get for not checking the progress intermittently.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:00 pm

So we need to add "With a power limit of 30 in any one power" after the initial outlay of points

Code: Select all

[b]Awesome Power[/b]: Gain the Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC). The character is a Heavy Hitter Rising Star, and starts with 40 Power Points with a power limit of 30 points in any single power, after any modifiers.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:32 pm

High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:00 pm
So we need to add "With a power limit of 30 in any one power" after the initial outlay of points

Code: Select all

[b]Awesome Power[/b]: Gain the Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC). The character is a Heavy Hitter Rising Star, and starts with 40 Power Points with a power limit of 30 points in any single power, after any modifiers.
Sure make the change.

I think we have enough votes I can make my character now!
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:13 am

Tribe of One wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:03 am
High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:55 am
There needs to be a note on Achilles Heel that strictly role-playing hindrances are generally ill suited for the hindrances.
+1. Should be physical mutations or mechanical complications with concrete effects, and not just stacking a bunch of Charisma penalties. Although I'd still allow a character to forego the extra 10 Power Points to not mess with Achilles Heel at all.
A mostly agree with this. -6 in game mechanic hindrances is hard without making a bunch of clones. I would say perhaps better to say "At least half of which much have mechanical consequence as approved by you GM." or some such.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Freemage » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:57 am

If we limit it to non-Charisma-affecting Mechanical Hindrances and Racial Drawbacks, we get this list. Note that you can always use the two Minor and one Major Hindrance every character gets for "roleplay" Hindrances:

1-point:
All Thumbs
Anemic
Bad Eyes--Minor (Requires Glasses)
Hard of Hearing--Minor
Illiterate (Borderline, but I'd allow it)
Obese
Pacifist--Minor*
Phobia--Minor
Poverty
Environmental Weakness
Frail -1
Non-Standard Physiology
Poor Parry -1
Small Racial -1
Slow -2"

2-point:
Arrogant*
Bad Eyes--Major (Cannot be corrected)
Bad Luck
Blind (Note: I would say a Blind SPC Character still gets the bonus Edge that comes from this Hindrance)
Clueless (Again, borderline, but I'd probably allow it)
Elderly
Habit--Major
Hard of Hearing--Major
Lame
One Arm
One Eye
One Leg
Pacifist--Major*
Phobia--Major
Small
Yellow
Young
Attribute Penalty -1
Dependency
Frail -2
Poor Parry -2
Small Racial -2
Slow -4"
Monologuer
Mania--Major*

3-point:
Attribute Penalty -2
Poor Parry -3

I don't think it's too much to use this as the list from which 6 points need to be taken, and I don't think we'll end up with a bunch of clones as a result, in part because some SPC builds are going to have very different focuses from others, and even the seemingly obvious choices may not be the best for some builds.

*: These are theoretically 'roleplay' Hindrances, but they have very specific requirements that mean they're going to cause problems for the PC. They're the sorts of things that the GM can intercede with, "No, you can't do that, because you have/are [X]." So long as an Arrogant character has a clear route, for instance, he's GOT to move to engage the biggest threat on the field, even if that means letting his allies face opponents that he'd be capable of mopping up. (He could also MAP to get the other enemies, but he's not fulfilling the Arrogance requirement if he isn't attacking or otherwise directing at least one action against the preferred target.) Pacifists can't attack without their preconditions being met. Major Manias mean your behavior isn't just extreme, it's also problematic if anyone learns about it--not in a -2 Charisma sense, but in a "Could get you court-martialed, arrested or burned at the stake" fashion. Because of all this, I don't put them in the same class as Overconfident, Curious and Heroic.
I'd also note that Wanted and Enemy could apply to these lists as well--it's just that those tend to require GM approval in any case.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:35 am

I think that much fuller list works.

Although I would take out illiterate. I have been illiterate for years and it never gave me support powers.
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Heracles » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:14 am

I would like to think we don't need a hard-and-fast list and that the GM could be involved but...

I will say that I think Quirk should be added. "Trapped" correctly it can be used to tie in with things possibly.

For instance, and this I guess would be a good time to find out if this wouldn't be something allowed), on the sample character using this IF that I made up: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3162

A weather controller with:
Quirk (Minor): Storms of Emotion. The weather around him tends to reflect his moods. This is an unconscious effect and something he has to actually think about to restrain.

Yes, that could instead be one of his roleplay Hindrances that everyone could take, but it fits in to the character and powers so I think would be eligible for Achilles Heel.
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Character Summary
Dog Boy Crazy

Active effects: Uncanny Reflexes (-2).

Parry: 7 (plus Uncanny Reflexes -2; -2 when Berserk); Toughness: 18(7) [Triax T-11 Enhanced Armor]
Weapon in hand: Chain Long Sword, Vibrosword or Wilk’s 447 Laser Rifle

Edges: Elan, Jack-of-all-Trades, Major Psionic, Off The Handle, Quick, Split the Seconds, Sublime Chaos

Powers: Boost/Lower Trait, Deflection, Healing, Smite
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Freemage » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:32 pm

Heracles wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:14 am
I would like to think we don't need a hard-and-fast list and that the GM could be involved but...

I will say that I think Quirk should be added. "Trapped" correctly it can be used to tie in with things possibly.

For instance, and this I guess would be a good time to find out if this wouldn't be something allowed), on the sample character using this IF that I made up: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3162

A weather controller with:
Quirk (Minor): Storms of Emotion. The weather around him tends to reflect his moods. This is an unconscious effect and something he has to actually think about to restrain.

Yes, that could instead be one of his roleplay Hindrances that everyone could take, but it fits in to the character and powers so I think would be eligible for Achilles Heel.
The point is that the drawbacks must have an actual drawback, not just be a neat tie-in to the powerset. If he has NO ability to restrain it? It would fit, because it'd literally be impossible for him to hide his emotional state from someone who knows about the Quirk. But if it's just, "Oh, I need to concentrate on it," it's not a drawback that has sufficient impact to account for the extra Power Points you get from it.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 am

Achilles Heel: Even the most powerful heroes have weaknesses, quirks, and foibles. The character however does not receive any points for these additional Hindrances or Negative Racial Traits.
The player must chose 6 points of Hindrances or Negative Racial Traits as follows
1-point:
  • All Thumbs
  • Anemic
  • Bad Eyes--Minor (Requires Glasses)
  • Hard of Hearing--Minor
  • Obese
  • Pacifist--Minor
  • Phobia--Minor
  • Poverty
  • Environmental Weakness
  • Frail -1
  • Non-Standard Physiology
  • Poor Parry -1
  • Small Racial -1
  • Slow -2"
  • Others as approved by the GM
2-point:
  • Arrogant
  • Bad Eyes--Major (Cannot be corrected)
  • Bad Luck
  • Blind
  • Clueless
  • Elderly
  • Habit--Major
  • Hard of Hearing--Major
  • Lame
  • One Arm
  • One Eye
  • One Leg
  • Pacifist--Major
  • Phobia--Major
  • Small
  • Yellow
  • Young
  • Attribute Penalty -1
  • Dependency
  • Frail -2
  • Poor Parry -2
  • Small Racial -2
  • Slow -4"
  • Monologuer
  • Mania--Major
  • Others as approved by the GM
3-point:
  • Attribute Penalty -2
  • Poor Parry -3
  • Others as approved by the GM -3
As I have it above, based on feedback


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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:09 pm

No it does not. Not all 6 points need mechanical delta. Some of them should, but it should not be penalty fest. That is an overly punitive application IMO. Others as approved by the GM does not work on controlling this because the assumption of most GMs will be all 6.


Note this wont affect my character because all mine are mechanical. But there are a lot of situations where only -3 or -4 in mechanical penalties makes sense.
Shaping Worlds Together
The 99's Game Master Bennies 0
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
    -5 Stupid Slumber
    -4 To Soak one Neeto attack
    -2 EE and Unshake
  • Zarbun
    Ba'al Zarbun 0 (-1 Wound)
    Cookie 0
    Zwer 0 (-3 wounds, used Blaze of Glory)
    Headmaster 0

Shaintar Game Master Bennies 6
  • +8 Players
    -2 Bennies to save Yellow Jack

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 4
  • +5 Players
    -1 Sweeping can be very hard
  • The Jail
    Danielson 0 (spent to set the stage)
    Grimm 3 elan, Against the Odds, The Winning Side
    Harvest 0
    Marry 2 Against the Odds
    Michael 2 Against the Odds
Phase World - The Remorseless 10
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
Abreaz (The Target) 2 elan, Assassin, Can spend a Benny on a Joker for the Drop, Quick, Imp Level Headed, highly tactical, will attack the weakest target until defeated
  • -0 None spent
  • The Pursuit
    Nemesis (Captain - Temporal Wizard) 2
    Royce (Second Officer - Charmer) 4 elan
    Grudge (Security - Brute) 1
    Hiesh (Tactical - Illusionist) 2
    Iasah (Ally - Godling) 4 elan
    Slip (Partial Cyborg - Pilot) 2
  • Naruni
    Castruccio (Uteni - Contract Holder) 3 elan
    Opserv (Security - Repobot) 2
    Ultor (Security - Repobot) 2
    Indohc (Security - TW) 2
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:20 am

All I did was clean up Derrick's list, which you nominally agreed with.
RFT wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:35 am
I think that much fuller list works.

Although I would take out illiterate. I have been illiterate for years and it never gave me support powers.
I added a wild card to cover that not all builds are the same. If you have a specific suggestion to clean up the list, please include it. That said, this is meant to be the weakness of the character, not their psychology. Sometimes those weaknesses are social, sometimes they are physical, but they are real and not just a bunch of charisma modifiers.

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:51 pm

@Venatus Vinco
Is this good enough we can move it? The only characters on site using the the old framework are Moira and Echo and both their GMs have approved updating for consistency.
Shaping Worlds Together
The 99's Game Master Bennies 0
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
    -5 Stupid Slumber
    -4 To Soak one Neeto attack
    -2 EE and Unshake
  • Zarbun
    Ba'al Zarbun 0 (-1 Wound)
    Cookie 0
    Zwer 0 (-3 wounds, used Blaze of Glory)
    Headmaster 0

Shaintar Game Master Bennies 6
  • +8 Players
    -2 Bennies to save Yellow Jack

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 4
  • +5 Players
    -1 Sweeping can be very hard
  • The Jail
    Danielson 0 (spent to set the stage)
    Grimm 3 elan, Against the Odds, The Winning Side
    Harvest 0
    Marry 2 Against the Odds
    Michael 2 Against the Odds
Phase World - The Remorseless 10
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
Abreaz (The Target) 2 elan, Assassin, Can spend a Benny on a Joker for the Drop, Quick, Imp Level Headed, highly tactical, will attack the weakest target until defeated
  • -0 None spent
  • The Pursuit
    Nemesis (Captain - Temporal Wizard) 2
    Royce (Second Officer - Charmer) 4 elan
    Grudge (Security - Brute) 1
    Hiesh (Tactical - Illusionist) 2
    Iasah (Ally - Godling) 4 elan
    Slip (Partial Cyborg - Pilot) 2
  • Naruni
    Castruccio (Uteni - Contract Holder) 3 elan
    Opserv (Security - Repobot) 2
    Ultor (Security - Repobot) 2
    Indohc (Security - TW) 2
  • Dream Makers
    Aalor 0
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by Venatus Vinco » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:57 pm

RFT wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:51 pm
@Venatus Vinco
Is this good enough we can move it? The only characters on site using the the old framework are Moira and Echo and both their GMs have approved updating for consistency.
Sure.

VV
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Re: Iconic Framework - Super Powered Heroes of Rifts Earth and Beyond!

Post by RFT » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:33 pm

Great, I will have lots of down time this weekend and will clean these up.
Shaping Worlds Together
The 99's Game Master Bennies 0
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
    -5 Stupid Slumber
    -4 To Soak one Neeto attack
    -2 EE and Unshake
  • Zarbun
    Ba'al Zarbun 0 (-1 Wound)
    Cookie 0
    Zwer 0 (-3 wounds, used Blaze of Glory)
    Headmaster 0

Shaintar Game Master Bennies 6
  • +8 Players
    -2 Bennies to save Yellow Jack

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 4
  • +5 Players
    -1 Sweeping can be very hard
  • The Jail
    Danielson 0 (spent to set the stage)
    Grimm 3 elan, Against the Odds, The Winning Side
    Harvest 0
    Marry 2 Against the Odds
    Michael 2 Against the Odds
Phase World - The Remorseless 10
  • +8 Players
    +2 Sidekicks
Abreaz (The Target) 2 elan, Assassin, Can spend a Benny on a Joker for the Drop, Quick, Imp Level Headed, highly tactical, will attack the weakest target until defeated
  • -0 None spent
  • The Pursuit
    Nemesis (Captain - Temporal Wizard) 2
    Royce (Second Officer - Charmer) 4 elan
    Grudge (Security - Brute) 1
    Hiesh (Tactical - Illusionist) 2
    Iasah (Ally - Godling) 4 elan
    Slip (Partial Cyborg - Pilot) 2
  • Naruni
    Castruccio (Uteni - Contract Holder) 3 elan
    Opserv (Security - Repobot) 2
    Ultor (Security - Repobot) 2
    Indohc (Security - TW) 2
  • Dream Makers
    Aalor 0
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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