Mind Melter Option

[Ndreare]

I know this won't get approved but I want directions in a conversation. And this is the way to do it.


The Mind Melter Framework receives three special abilities at no additional cost as part of the starting framework.
Mixed with Freemages idea

1. Start with Danger Sense
2. Begins with Conceal Arcana
3. The first time each rank a mind. Melted takes a new power edge, they receive a bonus 5 ISP. This is not increased by the major psionic edge." Encourages a large pool of powers, addresses the not enough juice issues.
4. Only suffers Brain Burn on a Critical Failure.

In addition: When selecting an attack power may select Mind Blast trapping which is mechanically identical to Soul Blast, however it only works on sentient. (Advanced AI are considered sentient for this purpose, but not simple AI such as Skelbots)

Version 2

1. Start with Danger Sense
2. Conceal Arcana (self-only) at-will (must pay 2 PPE for Exalted Conceal Arcana)
3. Mind Melters have a Unique version of Wizard which is tied to AB (Psionic), but is other wise mechanically identical to Wizard in SWD.
4. Only suffer Brainburn on a crit fail

In addition: When selecting an attack power may select Mind Blast trapping which is mechanically identical to Soul Blast, however it only works on sentient. (Advanced AI are considered sentient for this purpose, but not simple AI such as Skelbots)

version one abandoned

1) Focused on The Mind: Mind melters spend most of their time focused on their own mind and the amazing abilities of the powers. A Mind Melter may select two additional power edges of choice at character creation to represent the talents they have discovered.

2) Meditation: As outlined in James's proposal.

3) True Mastery: The use of their powers is so inherent to Mind Melters that they do not risk Brain Burn when using Psionics.


Edit: This would retro actively apply to the existing site Mind Melters.

[Radecliffe]

Two issues with this and it's mostly about how much flavor of the original Mind Melter should be in the SR version. First would be that Mind Melters should qualify for Sixth Sense with needing the Danger Sense Edge. Since Sixth Sense is a power edge it would eliminate the need for my Natural Precog edge. Second is the lack of conceal arcana as a at will ability. But if my iconic edge were approved along with this that would work too.

[Pursuit]

I really like 1 and 2. 3, less so, because brainburn is so baked into how SW handles psionics across all settings, even if there is no correlary in original recipe Rifts.

[Ndreare]

Two issues with this and it's mostly about how much flavor of the original Mind Melter should be in the SR version. First would be that Mind Melters should qualify for Sixth Sense with needing the Danger Sense Edge. Since Sixth Sense is a power edge it would eliminate the need for my Natural Precog edge. Second is the lack of conceal arcana as a at will ability. But if my iconic edge were approved along with this that would work too.

First, this would not eliminate your iconic edges.

Secondly Mind Melters did not have special trappings or other gimmicks. Their power was raw power and variety of power. The only Iconic things they really had where

Sixth Sense
Alter Aura at will (nothing about detecting)
Meditation to recover faster

More raw power than anyone else. That is where the extra edges come in. If they want they can take your version of Sixth Sense or they can take your version of other edges. They could even take the power points edge as it is a power edge.

[Tribe of One]

Just adding powers doesn't do it for me as a fix.

I'd be more interested in something along the lines of:

• Start with Danger Sense (or even Sixth Sense), since it's iconic to the original.
• Conceal Arcana (self-only) at-will, for free
• Give 'em access to a version of the Soul Blast trapping.
• Give 'em a version of Wizard
• Only suffer Brainburn on a crit fail

[Ndreare]

Just adding powers doesn't do it for me as a fix.

I'd be more interested in something along the lines of:

• Start with Danger Sense (or even Sixth Sense), since it's iconic to the original.
• Conceal Arcana (self-only) at-will, for free
• Give 'em access to a version of the Soul Blast trapping.
• Give 'em a version of Wizard
• Only suffer Brainburn on a crit fail

I would approve this version. While it does not allow the personal touch my version does. It still makes them better.


PS: I honestly do not see Soul Blats or any other 'Special Trapping' as being iconic to Mind Melters. But I would still approve your version.

[Radecliffe]

A Soul Blast style trapping would be a familiar trope for psychic powers. However, I'd have to say that for a psionic such a trapping would be good only against living beings.

Tribe's suggestions would also work for me.

[Pursuit]

The only suggestions I’ve seen on this thread I wouldn’t be in favor of are the brainburn reductions.

[Ndreare]

I will edit Tribes over my proposal and ignore Pursuits dislike of reducing Brain Burn. I think Brain Burn is 100% counter to the Mind Mage in every way it is presented.

[Radecliffe]

Yeah, Brain Burn may be core to SW but it is really counter intuitive to the nature of a Mind Melter. I could see a crit fail version since even Mind Melters can push too hard and pull a hammy.

[Pursuit]

I will edit Tribes over my proposal and ignore Pursuits dislike of reducing Brain Burn. I think Brain Burn is 100% counter to the Mind Mage in every way it is presented.

Fair. Odds are that I’ll vote for it under protest anyway, because Mind Melters need a fix bad. But brainburn is how SW does psionics, and eliminating it for the IF that is supposed to be the ultimate personification of psionic power just doesn’t compute for me.

Yeah, Brain Burn may be core to SW but it is really counter intuitive to the nature of a Mind Melter. I could see a crit fail version since even Mind Melters can push too hard and pull a hammy.

Sure, and a MD weapon that doesn’t do 100x the damage of a SD weapon runs counter to how Palladium did munitions, too, but this isn’t Palladium. It’s Savage Worlds, and brainburn is part of life for Savage Worlds’ psoinics.

As I said, I’ll probably vote for it anyway, but there aren’t any psychics in Palladium that have to deal with brainburn, and Mind Melters are far from the only frighteningly powerful psionics in the setting (Bursters also have a pretty terrifying power level, for example).

Edit: I recognize that Bursters in SW have a special rule on brainburn for thier flame bolt but not for their other powers. A similarly limited rule for certain Mind Melter abilities could make sense to me.

[Ndreare]

There are edges in published settings and the precedence of Miracles and super powers in the main book to show that backlash and brain burn are not required balance in Savage Worlds Arcane Background.

By considering it and Edge of value to reduce Brain Burn you are effectively acknowledging that Miracles are balanced. After all they are mechanically identical with the exception of -1 power and no backlash in exchange fore a minimalist code of honor.

[Pursuit]

There are edges in published settings and the precedence of Miracles and super powers in the main book to show that backlash and brain burn are not required balance in Savage Worlds Arcane Background.

By considering it and Edge of value to reduce Brain Burn you are effectively acknowledging that Miracles are balanced. After all they are mechanically identical with the exception of -1 power and no backlash in exchange fore a minimalist code of honor.

Not talking about any old arcane backgournd, though. It’s psionics, and psionics has a balancing feature.

I don’t follow your second argument; could you clarify? (Not sarcasm; just not tracking).

[Ndreare]

My argument is that we have precedence that removing backlash or brain burn is considered 1 Edge in published settings.

The rest is details of relative worth.

[Ndreare]

any opinion on revised version?

I want more chatter about this topic until something changes.

[Ndreare]

Mixed with Freemages idea

1. Start with Danger Sense
2. Conceal Arcana (self-only) at-will (must pay 2 PPE for Exalted Conceal Arcana)
3. The first time each rank a mind. Melted takes a new power edge, they receive a bonus 5 ISP. This is not increased by the major psionic edge." Encourages a large pool of powers, addresses the not enough juice issues.

In addition: When selecting an attack power may select Mind Blast trapping which is mechanically identical to Soul Blast, however it only works on sentient. (Advanced AI are considered sentient for this purpose, but not simple AI such as Skelbots)

[High Command]

I’ll note that in Savaging the MM, we all agreed that you cannot get rid of both brainburn. It’s too core. I’ll not comment on the rest for now.

[Ndreare]

I’ll note that in Savaging the MM, we all agreed that you cannot get rid of both brainburn. It’s too core. I’ll not comment on the rest for now.

I do not know who is magically including in "All", but I sure was not consulted and apparently neither was Tribe so I will say it is not an unanimous as presented.
However the version proposed with Freemage's addition does not include the Brain Burn reduction

[High Command]

I’ll note that in Savaging the MM, we all agreed that you cannot get rid of both brainburn. It’s too core. I’ll not comment on the rest for now.

I do not know who is magically including in "All", but I sure was not consulted and apparently neither was Tribe so I will say it is not an unanimous as presented.
However the version proposed with Freemage's addition does not include the Brain Burn reduction

The three of us savaging it

[Tribe of One]

I didn't suggest eliminating brainburn, just reducing it. That way the most powerful/skilled psychics in the game don't paralyze themselves roughly 10 percent of the time they use their powers.

Having MM's only suffer brainburn on a crit fail also gives them something that no other IF in the game can have, nicely setting them apart from all the MARS psionic builds that currently do the MM's job better than the MM.

[Lucius Draper]

I didn't suggest eliminating brainburn, just reducing it. That way the most powerful/skilled psychics in the game don't paralyze themselves roughly 10 percent of the time they use their powers.

Having MM's only suffer brainburn on a crit fail also gives them something that no other IF in the game can have, nicely setting them apart from all the MARS psionic builds that currently do the MM's job better than the MM.

+1

[Ndreare]

I didn't suggest eliminating brainburn, just reducing it. That way the most powerful/skilled psychics in the game don't paralyze themselves roughly 10 percent of the time they use their powers.

Having MM's only suffer brainburn on a crit fail also gives them something that no other IF in the game can have, nicely setting them apart from all the MARS psionic builds that currently do the MM's job better than the MM.

I love this idea and suggested it on the Peg forums and ValhallaGH (one of three people I consider most knowledgeable of Savage Worlds) suggested it was not enough of an edge and added some other ideas. But i think those would be to radical. I was hoping for minor stuff that could actually get voted approved.

As it is everyone has voted against all the ideas.

I know Patrick and John are working on one based off the Ley Line Walker. But honestly I do not really like that approach, I think it is another time where a small tweak is rejected for the most complex approach possible.

[High Command]

Actually we're watching all of this and using it when possible

Or at least I am

[Pursuit]

I was waiting to vote until we for sure had a final form.

[MJH]

I have not been part of the discussions, but I like them getting a variant of wizard. I am not sure what conceal arcana adds but I am not opposed to it either.

Why not start them off with Rapid Recharge or even a faster recharge rate? To me, this would allow them a way to keep up and use powers more often. The Ley Line Walker gets a boost from ley lines and the Mind Melter naturally recharges faster.

If we are thinking custom trappings, I think some of the ones developed on the site could serve as a template. Maybe grant them a version of the illusion trappings without the reflexive Notice roll.