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Mind Melter Redux

Proposed Change to House Rules Proposal (Remember only GM Accounts may vote)

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Total votes: 6

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Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

This cooperative effort is meant to replace the Mind Melter as presented in the Tomorrow Legion Player's Guide, pages 34 and 35. It is markedly more powerful than the original, but not overpoweringly so. It is meant to reflect the versatility of the original and incorporates what were some powers into class features.

CHANGELOG - TLDR, what’s changed?
Previous Updates
v. 1.1
Added one extra HJ roll
Alter Aura was added to Expanded Awareness and renamed (about half an edge); Also, Expanded Awareness is different.
Melting of the Minds was added (about an edge)
Mental Resistance has an added bonus (about half an edge)
Speed of Thought was added (about an edge)
Master Psionic was renamed Super Psionic. Also Danger Sense and Sixth Sense were added.
A Major Hindrance (Strong Psychic Scent) was added

v. 1.11
Speed of thought has an additional limitation involving rank of the power vs the MM's rank.
Intimidating Aura was modified.
Meditation was revised to be more clear
Precognitive Maestro has divinitation as a rereq now.
Psychic Domination had this added to the power: The power may be maintained with I.S.P. once the initial duration runs out. Also Added Spirit d8 requirement. Also increased penalty to Vigor checks to -2.
True Puppet has been clarified.

v. 1.12
Alter and See Aura have some wording clarifications (Arcana, not Arcane)
Melting of the Minds has added fluff to help explain the intent better.
Speed of Thought changed to once per round.
Strong Psychic Scent has been changed to Strong Psychic Aura and has had its mechanics change.
v. 1.13
Alter and See Aura, Mega versions are free actions.
Mental Resistance has added fluff to better explain itself.
Melting of the Minds made an Iconic Edge. Psionic Specialization Added in its place.
Strong Psychic Aura had this added at the end: "In addition, Mental Resistance does not apply to detect arcana. Arcane Resistance still does apply."
Meditation changed to x5 ISP recovery.v. 1.14
Renamed True Puppet and cleaned up language a bit, removing ambiguity.
v 2.0
Removed Psionic Specialization, Psychic Scent
Removed Meditation, Precognitive Maestro
Revised Psychic Body Field
v. 2.1
Removed Speed of Thought as a feature and made it a Veteran Iconic Edge. Iconic and Power Edges are now 7, equal to the Cyber-Knight.
Added Psionic Mastery (Power Stunts from SPC) and Tricks of the Mind (Power Tricks from SPC) to replace it.

PSYCHIC POWERHOUSE: MIND MELTER

Imagine a person’s liquified brain oozing forth from their ears, mouth, and nose. For many this is exactly the image invoked when the think of the awesome psychics known as Mind Melters. The name Mind Melter itself developed on the streets but it was the Coalition propaganda machine that made the term universal. In a concerted campaign to turn the public against these “Dominator class psychics” they cemented the name, and the stigma, in the public’s mind. Despite the reputation that precedes them most Mind Melters generally wear the name like a badge of honor, reveling in the respect and (far more often) fear their very presence generates. Even the ones with a more noble or gentle intent grasp just how terrifying their powerful minds are.

Mind Melters are masters of manipulating psionic energies. Only experience and training limits what they are capable of. To them, the energies of every mind create a tapestry depicting the past and the future, as well as all possible present moments, and they can grab any thread they like, tug it out of order, and rethread it as they will.

Some use this power for benevolent purposes, trying to defend the weak and make the world a better place. Others seek only personal power and aggrandizement. All must use their strange abilities, however, for the constant thrum of power in their very soul cannot be denied.

HERO’S JOURNEY (FIVE ROLLS)

Mind Melters get three rolls on any of the following tables: Enchanted Items & Mystic Gadgets, Experience & Wisdom, or Psionics. They also get two additional roll on any table except Cybernetics or Magic & Mysticism.

A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO MELT

Mind Melters are the epitome of the Master Psionic, beginning with extraordinary power and developing more of it over time. They possess the core powers of the Arcane Background (Psionics), and can take Master Psionic Powers as well. While they do not possess the Burster’s capacity for raw devastation, they have an extraordinarily wide array of capabilities they can bring to bear in almost any situation.

Mind Melters are highly resistant to psionic abilities, making them excellent partners to have along when dealing with inherently psionic beings and monsters. Like Bursters, Mind Melters tend to be confident in their own powers, rarely depending on mundane armor and weapons. They enjoy using Techno-Wizard devices when they can acquire them. Like any psionic, they can power such items with their ISP instead of the usual PPE required.

Mind Melters have the definitive list of powers for the Psionics Arcane Background:
armor, barrier, blind, bolt, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, confusion, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, dispel, divination, drain Power Points, entangle, environmental protection, farsight, fear, fly, havoc, healing, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, mind reading, pummel, puppet, slow, slumber, smite, speak language, stun, telekinesis, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift. This, plus detect/conceal arcana, is the same list for others with the Arcane Background (Psionics) Edge.

MIND MELTER ABILITIES AND BONUSES
  • See and Alter Aura: Mind Melters can use conceal arcana and detect arcana, with no ISP cost, as a free action on their turn. She must pay ISP as normal to use the Exalted version of either power, though they are still free actions.

    Arcane Background (Psionics): A Mind Melter begins with a great knowledge and understanding of psionics. She begins with five powers from the list above, 20 ISP, and a d8 Psionics skill.

    Major Psionics: Mind Melters have the Major Psionic edge and can spend 2 ISP to gain a +1 with any Psionic skill roll, or 4 ISP for a +2 (paid before the roll is made). These effects are doubled when on a ley line. Each time they take the Power Points edge, she gains +10 ISP (instead of 5).

    Mental Resistance: A Mind Melter's protective sixth sense applies to much more than simply warning against attacks. It also helps to erect psionic shields that provide +4 to all checks to resist psionic effects, and +4 armor against psionic damage. This stacks with Arcane Resistance.
    On occasion, when pushed, it can do more than that. By spending a benny, this resistance can apply to any opposed power regardless of the arcane source.

    Psionic Mastery: Spend a benny to use any power on the Mind Melter power list. This may be done a number of times per session equal to one half her Spirit die.

    Trick of the Mind: The Mind Melter may spend 2 ISP to add the following Power Tricks to any power they use that turn..
    • Delay: The victim must trade his current Action Card with the next character lower than him (he can’t trade with a character on Hold). If the victim already acted this round, the trade occurs on the following round unless the target gets the Joker (which negates the effect).
      Lower Defenses: The target’s Parry is lowered by 2 until his next action. This is simply a different way to successfully perform the Trick maneuver (see Savage Worlds), so it does not stack with a regular Trick.
      Lower Trait: One of the target’s attributes and all linked skills suffer a –2 penalty on his next action.
      Setup: Allies get a +2 bonus against the victim until his next action.
      Slow: The target’s Pace is halved on his next action.
    Super Psionic: A Mind Melter has the Master Psionic Edge, gaining all the Mega Powers associated with his selected powers. Additionally, the Mind Melter has the Danger Sense and Sixth Sense edges.
MIND MELTER COMPLICATIONS
  • A Little Odd: Though hardly as far gone as a Crazy, Mind Melters tend to be a little different due to the nature of their powers. Each Mind Melter begins with the Quirk Hindrance.

    Cybernetics: No remotely sane Mind Melter would allow any cybernetics to ruin their carefully tuned mind or body. Medical necessity might dictate otherwise, but such characters suffer −1 to the Psionics skill for each point of Strain.

    Enemies: Mind Melters not working for the Coalition’s Psi-Battalion are shot on sight by all Coalition troops, then shot again to be certain they’re dead. Those working for the Coalition don’t usually lack for enemies or prejudice. True Federation folks also tend to hate them.

    Feared: Though it’s possible to hide his true nature, if the general populace discovers the presence of a Mind Melter, they tend to be very nervous—and possibly outright terrified. Mind Melters suffer a −2 Charisma when dealing with those who fear them.
ICONIC FRAMEWORK STARTING GEAR

SFD Huntsman Lightweight Personal Armor, NG-33 Laser Pistol, NG-S2 Survival Pack, 4d6 × 100 credits.






New/Revised Iconic Edges
  • Intimidating Aura [Power]
    Requirements: Mind Melter, telepathy, Intimidate d6+, Seasoned
    While the Mind Melter has telepathy active, the Mind Melter can, for the power’s duration, add the value of any of his negative Charisma modifiers (including any situational modifiers) as a bonus on Intimidation checks, as she is surrounded by a barely perceptible aura of domination and fear.

    Melting of the Minds [Iconic]
    Requirements: Mind Melter, Mentalist, Spirit d8, Psionics d10, mind reading or stun power, Veteran
    Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers that can be resisted, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, is shaken as his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them.

    Psychic Body Field [Power]
    Requirements: Mind Melter, armor power, Veteran
    Yet another powerful manifestation of will and telekinetic strength, the Psychic Body Field provides the psionic with increased protection from telekinetic force fields that makes the entire bonus from the armor power one of toughness. The greater armor power has two armor added, half of which counts as toughness, and the rest counts as M.D.C. armor. The Mind Melter simply activates her armor or greater armor power, summoning the Psychic Body Field.

    Psychic Domination [Iconic]
    Requirements: Mind Melter, puppet power, Spirit d8, Seasoned
    Possessed of incredible will and the ability to control the minds of others, a Mind Melter can use the puppet power without using ISP. Each time he uses it, she must make a Vigor roll to resist gaining a level of Fatigue. The power may be maintained with I.S.P. once the initial duration runs out. Each subsequent use of the power imposes a cumulative −2 penalty on the Vigor check until she gets a full night’s rest (eight hours). It is possible for a Mind Melter to Incapacitate herself with this ability. Fatigue levels gained from Psychic Domination can only be recovered with eight hours of rest (succor cannot restore). Mind control must be activated normally.
    • Psychic Ensnarement [Iconic]
      Requirements: Psychic Domination edge, Legendary
      A Mind Melter can control minds for an extended period of time. He does this by reducing his maximum ISP by the cost of the mind control power (6 ISP) and suffering a −1 penalty on all other actions for each person under his control. The being remains bound to his service until he releases it, no matter the distance, or the dominated person is Incapacitated (in either case, freeing the person from psychic servitude). As usual, any time a target is forced to do something completely against his nature, he gains a new opposed roll to break control. As per mind control, a success enables him to resist the action, doing nothing instead. A raise means he’s completely free of this ability.
    Speed of Thought [Iconic]
    Prerequisite: Mind Melter, Veteran, Spirit d8
    Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought or counter psychic mental lapses. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any power known as a free action. There are three limitations to this talent:
    • • If more than one power is activated this way only one wild die is rolled and bolt cannot be used except in its singular forum.
      • This Talent can be used a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die.
      • There is an additional -2 per rank penalty to the psionics roll that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
    Telekinetic Force Field [Power]
    Requirements: Mind Melter, barrier power, Veteran
    When activating the barrier power, the Mind Melter adds 4 armor to the power. To stalwart walls it adds +2 toughness and +2 armor, which remains M.D.C. The Mind Melter simply activates her barrier or stalwart walls power, summoning the Telekinetic Force Field which reinforces the barrier.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

We'll have a comment period that lasts until Thursday the 1st, then we'll put up a poll.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Remove conceal arcana from the spell list
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Done
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Freemage »

Meditation needs a little clarity--if someone tries to disrupt the meditation, and the MM succeeds at the Spirit roll, is the trance disrupted?

Also, a meditating MM should be helpless (and thus vulnerable to Finishing Moves), not merely grant the drop. If he's that unaware of his surroundings, an opponent can just walk up and slit his throat.

Finally, how long is the trance supposed to be, if not disrupted? Can the MM declare the time to elapse, or does it just automatically end once he's got a full ISP pool?
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Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Revision:

Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 4 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.

ok?
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:Revision:

Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 4 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.

ok?
Can the MM make an attempt to leave the trance? Say he knows he only has a few minutes to spare but not enough time to fully fill his reserves.

Also, melting of the Minds (for the crit fail) and Mental Resistance (for the benny benefit) could both use more fluff to explain why they work the way they do.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Further Revision
Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 4 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and any attacker is considered to be helpless.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Freemage »

Precognitive Maestro should require the divination power.

Psychic Domination needs a Spirit pre-req, probably d8.

For True Puppet, a small edit: "... he gains a new opposed roll to break control." Prevents confusion about whether the break-out roll is opposed by the MM's Psionics, or just a straight TN 4.
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Ophelia Monk, Field Team 6
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

I'd like to see Precognitive Maestro be linked to Spirit in order to avoid duplication/overlap and easier access to the Psionics HJ selection, which is available either on 3 facets of a d20, or by trading 2 HJ rolls for one result. It makes more sense to give them iconic access to something that's already on the HJ table. MMs are likely to max Smarts to begin with. Spirit is (slightly) more of a secondary attribute for the MM and doesn't help with increasing your Psionics skill. Spirit makes more sense to me, too, from a fluff standpoint. Spirit is that intangible something that sets you apart. Smarts is just brain power. Spirit is putting your soul into something you need to do well right then.
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Wounds / Fatigue: 0 / 0
Parry: 7
Toughness: 22 (9) (Enchanted Berserker Plate Armor, Tough Breed)
Pace: 6/8 in armor
Edges: Robot Armor Jock, Ace, Combat Ace, Ambidextrous, Quick, Level Headed, Improved Level Headed, Charismatic, I Know A Guy, Elan, Battle Hardened
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Freemage »

While I get what you were going for with Intimidating Aura, there's one issue--the math gets really funky. MMs are normally -2 Charisma, so this would give them a +2 to Intimidate. They could increase that by being Ugly, or an obvious D-Bee race in CS territory. But an MM with Charismatic actually LOSES effectiveness, as does an Attractive one.

May I suggest, instead, that it allow a single Intimidate attempt as a free action, against a target within a range of Spirit inches?

Either that, or make it similar to (I think) Rebel Yell--as an action, you can make an Intimidate roll against all targets within Spirit inches.

Thinking it over, I believe the Psychic Domination Vigor roll's penalty should be cumulative -2 for subsequent uses, not -1. That puts it in line with the Ley Line Walker's LL Phasing/Gate powers, rather than the Mystic's Divination ability.
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GMC Bennies:
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Gaspard Gillead, 12th AAT/Dirty Dozen
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Ophelia Monk, Field Team 6
Hexx, Rising Stars SPC
Malaetheryan, Phase World/Relentless
Jaenelle, Beyond the Wall
Yeitso & Alicia Forsythe, Prestige Unlimited

Inactive/Retired/Deceased
Gorgeous George, 4th COT/Murder Hobos(Frozen)
Nomel Sagia, Nameless (Frozen)
Libertas Magicorum, 13th SET/Silent Ones(Retired)
Savant, 3rd SET/Losers(Frozen)
Other Mother, Ravenloft (Frozen)
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

I don't want to invalidate the HJ option, and switching it to Spirit would do just that.

The intent was to capitalize on the Mind Melter's fear as a means of extracting information and favors. Making it the absolute value was an attempt not to penalize those that build up charisma.
I guess I could make it a specific bonus from any penalty to charisma, instead of all charisma. Honestly the basic one and the CS one are situational. They don't always apply.

I can see that on Psychic Domination - make it more of a MAP like penalty.

BTW, someone asked about Melt the Mind. That ability is two things: An attempt to use Brain Burn offensively and to bring to game rules part of the fluff. One of the starkest images in the book is a graffiti covered wall, with a vagrant sitting in front of it, and the words "Melt my Mind" over his head.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Here is the edge the frightening ability is based of off.

Frightening/Impressive

Requirements: Novice, Spirit d6+, Intimidation d6+

Some folks are very Frightening in their appearance and presence, while others project a highly Impressive bearing. This Edge allows the Hero to apply his Charisma modifier to any Intimidation checks; if it is negative, the Edge counts as Frightening (and the value is inverted as a bonus), while a positive modifier counts as Impressive. The maximum amount of modifier from Charisma that should be permitted for the Intimidation check is +4.

Maybe we should just leave it as the edge itself. Pg 78 Shaintar.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Carlos »

I think there needs to be a side effect of the Speed of Thought ability, something that makes it so that it is not something the Mind Melter does every time they are going to do as often as possible. Granted, it being limited in usese per "session"...which is a highly variable term...helps, but there should be something else, something that makes it a "save for a real emergency" thing.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Carlos wrote:I think there needs to be a side effect of the Speed of Thought ability, something that makes it so that it is not something the Mind Melter does every time they are going to do as often as possible. Granted, it being limited in usese per "session"...which is a highly variable term...helps, but there should be something else, something that makes it a "save for a real emergency" thing.
We could toss in −2 per Rank the power is above her own. Maybe some extra backlash? Like a roll of 1 on Psionics is a psychic scream. And crit fail is a large burst?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Here is the edge the frightening ability is based of off.
Frightening/Impressive
Requirements: Novice, Spirit d6+, Intimidation d6+
Some folks are very Frightening in their appearance and presence, while others project a highly Impressive bearing. This Edge allows the Hero to apply his Charisma modifier to any Intimidation checks; if it is negative, the Edge counts as Frightening (and the value is inverted as a bonus), while a positive modifier counts as Impressive. The maximum amount of modifier from Charisma that should be permitted for the Intimidation check is +4.
Maybe we should just leave it as the edge itself. Pg 78 Shaintar.
This doesn't change Soren's point any, but good to clear up language with. I think for this ability, we'd be better off with something like this:
  • While the Mind Melter has telepathy active, the Mind Melter can, for the power’s duration, add the value of any of his negative Charisma modifiers (including any situational modifiers) as a bonus on Intimidation checks, as she is surrounded by a barely perceptible aura of domination and fear.
I could get behind a penalty for powers above the character's rank.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Radecliffe »

Carlos wrote:I think there needs to be a side effect of the Speed of Thought ability, something that makes it so that it is not something the Mind Melter does every time they are going to do as often as possible. Granted, it being limited in usese per "session"...which is a highly variable term...helps, but there should be something else, something that makes it a "save for a real emergency" thing.
On this site a session is three months. I see it less for emergencies than to use sparingly.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Peta Chante »

Radecliffe wrote: On this site a session is three months. I see it less for emergencies than to use sparingly.
To me this is awesome, I know as a Mind Melter there was one occasion when staring down a SAMAS this would have saved my bacon. As it was it took an adventure Card to get the same effect.

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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

I am very much against the strong psychic presence hindrance. It is the opposite of mine melter starting off with conceale Arcana.

Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.



Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

RFT wrote:I am very much against the strong psychic presence hindrance. It is the opposite of mine melter starting off with conceale Arcana.

Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.



Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.
Any suggestions on how to make the stuff you don't like RFT approved?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Yes, eliminate Speed of thought and Strong Psychic Presence.

Remove the wild die exception from Melting Minds

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

RFT wrote:Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.
It's simply Brain Burn applied to the enemy and has some pretty severe usage limitations. Not sure why this is pushing limits
RFT wrote:Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.
Not allowing it if approved all is not only unfair, it's simply prohibitive without giving any actual feedback to revise. Constructive feedback, not simply "I don't like it" is requested.

Is there some other cost you would add to Speed of Thought? I mean we could make it an iconic edge, but really it's no more broken than Quickness or the CK/Juicer/Crazy crap. And at least it is limited to a few times every 3 months. It doesn't remove that you can't cast the same power more than once a round. All it does is eliminate MAP without resorting to Quickness. I can promise you *I* will never pick up Quickness if its included.

Some version of Strong Psychic Scent will be added as an available Hindrance if nothing else, but TBH I put it in (or rather didn't fight its inclusion) to balance Speed of Thought.

Remove the wild die exception to Melting Minds? Why?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

High Command wrote:
RFT wrote:Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.
It's simply Brain Burn applied to the enemy and has some pretty severe usage limitations. Not sure why this is pushing limits
RFT wrote:Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.
Not allowing it if approved all is not only unfair, it's simply prohibitive without giving any actual feedback to revise. Constructive feedback, not simply "I don't like it" is requested.

Is there some other cost you would add to Speed of Thought? I mean we could make it an iconic edge, but really it's no more broken than Quickness or the CK/Juicer/Crazy crap. And at least it is limited to a few times every 3 months. It doesn't remove that you can't cast the same power more than once a round. All it does is eliminate MAP without resorting to Quickness. I can promise you *I* will never pick up Quickness if its included.

Some version of Strong Psychic Scent will be added as an available Hindrance if nothing else, but TBH I put it in (or rather didn't fight its inclusion) to balance Speed of Thought.

Remove the wild die exception to Melting Minds? Why?
The only problem I can see is the mechanical aspect of the melting minds thing. Say the enemy (or PC) wild card rolls a 1 on trait die, and ends up with a net success and/or raise to resist the Mind Melter's psionic attack on the wild die. Effectively, they're still shaken despite having successfully resisted the MM's mental attack, and possibly, a non-psionically active character (Grackle Tooth, D'Norr, etc.) can let out a psionic scream that shakes/wounds those in an LBT. That doesn't jive.
With psionic brainburn, it makes sense that the power could still activate, but a psionic scream is triggered. With Melting of the Minds, it makes no sense that you can successfully resist, but you're still shaken, and possibly can mentally "scream" loud enough to affect those around you.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Their scream is not psychic at all, it's disconcerting and unforeseen. If someone next to you just starts screaming about "Oh my god, they're in my head, get them out! The monsters! They'll make my head explode!!?" It has the potential to freak you out (Spirit roll).

As for resisting the power, I'd say yay, you resisted, now this other thing happens. It's two different effects, just like with Brain Burn. A mind Melter reads your mind, you resist, but roll a 1 on Spirit. You experience something that makes you scream. If he got a raise, you experience something that makes you scream that has the potential to freak out everyone around you.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

High Command wrote:
RFT wrote:Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.
It's simply Brain Burn applied to the enemy and has some pretty severe usage limitations. Not sure why this is pushing limits
RFT wrote:Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.
Not allowing it if approved all is not only unfair, it's simply prohibitive without giving any actual feedback to revise. Constructive feedback, not simply "I don't like it" is requested.

Is there some other cost you would add to Speed of Thought? I mean we could make it an iconic edge, but really it's no more broken than Quickness or the CK/Juicer/Crazy crap. And at least it is limited to a few times every 3 months. It doesn't remove that you can't cast the same power more than once a round. All it does is eliminate MAP without resorting to Quickness. I can promise you *I* will never pick up Quickness if its included.

Some version of Strong Psychic Scent will be added as an available Hindrance if nothing else, but TBH I put it in (or rather didn't fight its inclusion) to balance Speed of Thought.

Remove the wild die exception to Melting Minds? Why?

The feedback is the same as last couple few times this came up. I am against Attack powers as free actions in general, but can see exceptions when framed in very limited trappings. This is definitely not a very limited trapping, it is as wide open as can be and would flip the Mind Mage from weakest to ridiculousness. The mechanical effect of this is a Mind Melter can simply spam the encounter and eliminate the need for other combatants. The only time it 'balances' is if the GM spams battles so the characters are constantly fighting ISP.
It is beyond that as the Mind Mage has a minimum of 5 actions and potentially more as he can stack this with Quickness and get 10 actions. All assuming he has not added a bunch more powers as each power is an additional free action.

Compare this in power to Adept, narrow list of defense and/or self only effects.

The balance I gave was getting rid of both it and the Strong Psychic Limitation.

For melting minds, I think it is boarder line (definitely more than a 1/2 edge) in that it gives a 12.5% chance of even a strong will (d8 spirit) character being shaken even if he succeeds on a resistance.

Edit: For me melting minds is not a deal breaker, but it is borderline because I hate you succeed in your roll and still suck mechanics. However they exist in SW, so while I dislike it I would not vote against it.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Thats perfect RFT, lets just limit speed of thought to non attack powers and toss in the -2 per rank difference.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

RFT wrote:
High Command wrote:
RFT wrote:Melting Minds is borderline. I think it is pushing the limits, but could see it as valid. And i would still approve.
It's simply Brain Burn applied to the enemy and has some pretty severe usage limitations. Not sure why this is pushing limits
RFT wrote:Speed of thought i simply would not allow, even if site approved.
Not allowing it if approved all is not only unfair, it's simply prohibitive without giving any actual feedback to revise. Constructive feedback, not simply "I don't like it" is requested.

Is there some other cost you would add to Speed of Thought? I mean we could make it an iconic edge, but really it's no more broken than Quickness or the CK/Juicer/Crazy crap. And at least it is limited to a few times every 3 months. It doesn't remove that you can't cast the same power more than once a round. All it does is eliminate MAP without resorting to Quickness. I can promise you *I* will never pick up Quickness if its included.

Some version of Strong Psychic Scent will be added as an available Hindrance if nothing else, but TBH I put it in (or rather didn't fight its inclusion) to balance Speed of Thought.

Remove the wild die exception to Melting Minds? Why?

The feedback is the same as last couple few times this came up. I am against Attack powers as free actions in general, but can see exceptions when framed in very limited trappings. This is definitely not a very limited trapping, it is as wide open as can be and would flip the Mind Mage from weakest to ridiculousness. The mechanical effect of this is a Mind Melter can simply spam the encounter and eliminate the need for other combatants. The only time it 'balances' is if the GM spams battles so the characters are constantly fighting ISP.
It is beyond that as the Mind Mage has a minimum of 5 actions and potentially more as he can stack this with Quickness and get 10 actions. All assuming he has not added a bunch more powers as each power is an additional free action.

Compare this in power to Adept, narrow list of defense and/or self only effects.

The balance I gave was getting rid of both it and the Strong Psychic Limitation.

For melting minds, I think it is boarder line (definitely more than a 1/2 edge) in that it gives a 12.5% chance of even a strong will (d8 spirit) character being shaken even if he succeeds on a resistance.

Edit: For me melting minds is not a deal breaker, but it is borderline because I hate you succeed in your roll and still suck mechanics. However they exist in SW, so while I dislike it I would not vote against it.

He has a point that Adept gives a framework for activating powers as free actions. What if you re-skinned Adept but with a selection of MM appropriate powers (assuming you don't want to use the Adept list)?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Yeah lets change the psychic scream to something else, same mechanic but a different name. Max thoughts on what we could call it?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Pursuit i am fine just limiting speed of thought to non attack powers.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Some notes for consideration.

Adept
  • 4 powers maximum
    only 1 per rank starting at seasoned even if taken as novice
    only self only powers
    only highly limited power list
CK unique adept like power
  • a few limited powers
    only self only powers
    Was notably more powerful by SW players than Adept like an improved version (this is effectively like two edges)
Likewise for Gunslinger.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

RFT wrote:Some notes for consideration.

Adept
  • 4 powers maximum
    only 1 per rank starting at seasoned even if taken as novice
    only self only powers
    only highly limited power list
CK unique adept like power
  • a few limited powers
    only self only powers
    Was notably more powerful by SW players than Adept like an improved version (this is effectively like two edges)
Likewise for Gunslinger.
I am not denying it is awesome or frighting, because speed of thought is supposed to help capture the PR flavor text of them using powers at the speed of thought while also speaking to how frightening they are.

So I assume limiting it to non attacking powers would not be good enough?

Clearly the ability's mechanics are drawn from the TW framework and their ability to do x a certain number of sessions but instead of build any power we went with free action with a power known. I would be the first to say this ability of the TW is pretty awesome. In turn we are trying to capture that same with the MM.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:I am not denying it is awesome or frighting, because speed of thought is supposed to help capture the PR flavor text of them using powers at the speed of thought while also speaking to how frightening they are.

So I assume limiting it to non attacking powers would not be good enough?

Clearly the ability's mechanics are drawn from the TW framework and their ability to do x a certain number of sessions but instead of build any power we went with free action with a power known. I would be the first to say this ability of the TW is pretty awesome. In turn we are trying to capture that same with the MM.
I have played enough Palladium Rifts to know that that is definitely not iconic to them. I would be happy with a list about the same size as the adepts or Cyber-Knights. But Not attack powers and I would consider it very heavily weighted like two edges.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

To be fair, as I've said in chat, this power came out of that rather permissive reading of the Palladium Fluff. And it is wholly Pender's brain child. That said I also like it. So how about this:

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from the list that follows. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
  • armor, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, divination, environmental protection, farsight, fly, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, smite, speak language, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift
This gives Mind Melters greater flexibility, but not the focused ability that CKs or adepts get (who can do them all the time as free actions, but limited to self only). The MM is not limited to himself, but still must choose at creation what will be included.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

RFT wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:I am not denying it is awesome or frighting, because speed of thought is supposed to help capture the PR flavor text of them using powers at the speed of thought while also speaking to how frightening they are.

So I assume limiting it to non attacking powers would not be good enough?

Clearly the ability's mechanics are drawn from the TW framework and their ability to do x a certain number of sessions but instead of build any power we went with free action with a power known. I would be the first to say this ability of the TW is pretty awesome. In turn we are trying to capture that same with the MM.
I have played enough Palladium Rifts to know that that is definitely not iconic to them. I would be happy with a list about the same size as the adepts or Cyber-Knights. But Not attack powers and I would consider it very heavily weighted like two edges.
Page 150 in the ultimate edition says their powers come at the speed of thought. From it springs forth their arrogance. To me this would be all powers. But I understand that is unreasonable.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

High Command wrote:To be fair, as I've said in chat, this power came out of that rather permissive reading of the Palladium Fluff. And it is wholly Pender's brain child. That said I also like it. So how about this:

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from the list that follows. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
  • armor, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, divination, environmental protection, farsight, fly, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, smite, speak language, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift
This gives Mind Melters greater flexibility, but not the focused ability that CKs or adepts get (who can do them all the time as free actions, but limited to self only). The MM is not limited to himself, but still must choose at creation what will be included.
Looks good to me, sort of an amagamation of everything that is rolling in my head.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

High Command wrote:To be fair, as I've said in chat, this power came out of that rather permissive reading of the Palladium Fluff. And it is wholly Pender's brain child. That said I also like it. So how about this:

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from the list that follows. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
  • armor, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, divination, environmental protection, farsight, fly, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, smite, speak language, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift
This gives Mind Melters greater flexibility, but not the focused ability that CKs or adepts get (who can do them all the time as free actions, but limited to self only). The MM is not limited to himself, but still must choose at creation what will be included.
Take out Damage Field, Smite and Warrior's Gift and I will buy in.

While it will be a much larger list than normal it is a list of awesome utility powers like teleport, Clairvoyance and Danksight instead of direct combat spells and I think that can bring in some balance while still allowing amazing stuff.





@Pender: As a note they say speed of thought, but Mind melters actually end up with less attacks than anyone else because they cannot take boxing and must spend a million skills for hand to hand. But I do like the idea of bringing in something of mechanics from the descriptions.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Damage Field and Smite I get, but warriors gift is not worse than boost trait. It’s a buff. I don’t agree with limiting a defensive damage field (because unless you focus on hand to hand unarmed it’s not a great offensive power), but I can deal with it.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

High Command wrote:Damage Field and Smite I get, but warriors gift is not worse than boost trait. It’s a buff. I don’t agree with limiting a defensive damage field (because unless you focus on hand to hand unarmed it’s not a great offensive power), but I can deal with it.
My opinion of removing the offensive spells is based on my opinion that the power list is huge, and applies to a whole lot of powers. This is like multiple stacking of Adept.

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,

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Pender Lumkiss
Diamond Patron
Diamond Patron
Posts: 3522
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

RFT wrote: @Pender: As a note they say speed of thought, but Mind melters actually end up with less attacks than anyone else because they cannot take boxing and must spend a million skills for hand to hand. But I do like the idea of bringing in something of mechanics from the descriptions.
See this is where I get lost in the translation. I really try to focus in on the fluff not so much the mechanics of what they get in PR.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Oh question... What about treating each subsquent free action as if it was a frenzy or auto fire in that you only get 1 wild die?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:
RFT wrote: @Pender: As a note they say speed of thought, but Mind melters actually end up with less attacks than anyone else because they cannot take boxing and must spend a million skills for hand to hand. But I do like the idea of bringing in something of mechanics from the descriptions.
See this is where I get lost in the translation. I really try to focus in on the fluff not so much the mechanics of what they get in PR.
That is why I said I do like the idea of bringing something mechanical from the descriptions. A lot of games give endless descriptions, but do not have mechanics, so I like mechanics that give fluff meaning.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Oh question... What about treating each subsquent free action as if it was a frenzy or auto fire in that you only get 1 wild die?
I would not mind that. But I am sure everyone interested in playing a MM would panic.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

With a bit of autofire thrown in.

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from the list that follows. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
  • armor, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, divination, environmental protection, farsight, fly, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, smite, speak language, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift
This gives Mind Melters greater flexibility, but not the focused ability that CKs or adepts get (who can do them all the time as free actions, but limited to self only). The MM is not limited to himself, but still must choose at creation what will be included. Further more this ability when used in rapid sucession only gets one wild die almost as if was an autofire attack.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:With a bit of autofire thrown in.

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from the list that follows. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
  • armor, boost/lower Trait, clairvoyance, damage field, darksight, deflection, disguise, divination, environmental protection, farsight, fly, illusion, intangibility, invisibility, smite, speak language, telepathy, teleport, warrior’s gift
This gives Mind Melters greater flexibility, but not the focused ability that CKs or adepts get (who can do them all the time as free actions, but limited to self only). The MM is not limited to himself, but still must choose at creation what will be included. Further more this ability when used in rapid sucession only gets one wild die almost as if was an autofire attack.
I would approve this. With the autofire limit and the -2 per rank over the MM I would approve allowing them to pick 5 powers from the MM list period.

Even puppet and Burst would have some sting taken out of them by those two rules combined.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Now thats what I am talking about RFT! Patrick, expand the list!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

How about instead we limit it to once per round? It was never my intent to have it happen more than once per round

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. At character creation, choose five powers from their power list. They do not need to be powers the Mind Melter knows at character creation. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use those selected power as a free action once per round. It may not be used more than once per round. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. There is an additional -2 penalty to the psionics roll to activate the power per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

High Command wrote:How about instead we limit it to once per round? It was never my intent to have it happen more than once per round
I like Spirit/2 per session or "By Spending a Benny" and then just let them have it as often as they need it.


The problem with that is GM's vary so much on Benny economy I know some characters like Leben/Ndreare are swimming in Bennies, while other characters are benny starved going a whole session with only one benny opportunity.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Spirit/2 per session is literally where we started, so obviously THAT's not gonna fly. Wanna rethink that? Because all I changed above was to limit it to once per round
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I am torn, part lf me really likes the idea of this speed of thought MM casting slumber, blast, deflection, invisibility, and deflection feild. 5 psionics and 1 wild, and let it fly. Sounds like level 11 to me. Talk about speed of thought.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

what it sounds like is you are changing how core mechanics work and that, by VV's statement is off the table. Sorry, but that's a non-starter for me.
Tales of the 17th SOG
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

What if Speed of thought worked Just like Echo's similar power.

3) Extra Action (3): only for using powers (-0, this is not really a limitation and has no value)

I did this for one of my characters and it works out really well. Basically she just naturally is able to constantly be channeling powers.

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Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

that is literally where this started!!!!! And you hated it! GAHH

Sorry, I just hate the circling back thing.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Nice work you guys, there's a lot here I really like, and most of the things I stumbled over have already been addressed. A couple of things that still stand out:
  • See and Alter Aura should reference conceal and detect arcana, not arcane
  • I really, really hate Melting of the Minds, for much the same reason as Rob. As a player, I'd be super pissed if I make my rolls to resist but still somehow end up Shaken or worse by a power. My gut reaction, and my after-some-consideration reaction are pretty much the same: That's some capital H Horseshit. Cut it, please.
  • On a related note, I'd still like to see the Mind Melter gain some ability to reduce the consequences of Brain Burn. Blah, blah that's how Savage Worlds works ... I don't care. It's dumb that a psionic master has a minimum of a 1 in 12 chance of paralyzing himself every time he uses his powers. Let them ignore a 1 on the trait die (still suffering LBT brain burn on a crit fail) or give them a Spirit roll to ignore Shaken or something.
  • I really dig all the Iconic Edges, nice work
  • I really like Pender's idea for limiting Speed of Thought by treating it like autofire, with a single Wild Die. With that to balance things out, I think I'd let it apply to any of their known powers. Wording could go something like this:
    Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any known power as a free action. This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die. Powers the Mind Melter activates as a free action suffer an additional -2 penalty to the activation roll for every rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter, and the Mind Melter rolls a single Wild Die for all powers activated that round, much like a character firing multiple shots with a full-auto weapon.
  • I see the issue others noted with Strong Psychic Scent basically counteracting Alter Aura. What about this, instead:
    Strong Psychic Scent: All Mind Melters have a strong psychic aura. Dogboys and Psi-stalkers (and those like them) find them easier to sense. Anyone using detect arcana against a Mind Melter gains a +1 bonus to the roll for every power the Mind Melter has activated or maintained since the start of his last turn. This bonus also applies to opposed rolls when the Mind Melter is using conceal arcana to remain hidden.
    That way, the MM flares like a beacon when they're using their powers, but can "run silent" and use conceal if they want to be sneaky.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

So Patrick PM'ed me and Apparently I completely misunderstood what he was trying to say in Speed of Thought.


With this in mind the following I would also buy into.


Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any power as a free action. There are three limitations to this talent:
  • Only one power can be used per turn as a Free action using this ability. (Does not limit powers restricted with a trapping that makes them a free action.)
  • This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die.
  • There is an additional -2 per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.


PS: I agree with Tribe 100% above on everything else mentioned.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

RFT wrote:So Patrick PM'ed me and Apparently I completely misunderstood what he was trying to say in Speed of Thought.


With this in mind the following I would also buy into.


Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any power as a free action. There are three limitations to this talent:
  • Only one power can be used per turn as a Free action using this ability. (Does not limit powers restricted with a trapping that makes them a free action.)
  • This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die.
  • There is an additional -2 per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
I could live with this, but I think it's more fun to let them go nova and roll the dice, using multiple free powers in a round (limited by 1/2 Spirit per session) but with just the one Wild Die. I mean, backed in a corner, going nova with 5-6 powers (if you have the ISP) but just one Wild Die? I'd let that happen once a quarter.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Here's the final I'd approve. As I said above, I refuse to change core mechanics. VV said it's a non-starter, please stop asking. He will just tell us no. So let's not even go there.

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any power they know as a free action. There are three limitations to this talent:
  • Only one power can be used per turn as a Free action using this ability. (Does not limit powers restricted with a trapping that makes them a free action.)
    This can be done a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die.
    There is an additional -2 per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
Tribe of One wrote:See and Alter Aura should reference conceal and detect arcana, not arcane
Noted and I'll change it.
Tribe of One wrote:I really, really hate Melting of the Minds, for much the same reason as Rob. As a player, I'd be super pissed if I make my rolls to resist but still somehow end up Shaken or worse by a power. My gut reaction, and my after-some-consideration reaction are pretty much the same: That's some capital H Horseshit. Cut it, please.
In a word, no. But how about this instead? I don't like it. I think it removes teeth from the power unnecessarily (and I think you are looking at it too much as a player being hit by it and not as a player using it). GMs can do this already if they want. They don't need to worry about character creation balance when making baddies. So I refuse to build to account for bad guys. This is for players. Even if its stripped ANY GM could add it back into their bad guys.
  • Melting of the Minds: When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target rolls a 1 his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught and is shaken. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 on his roll to resist cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind. The shock of this causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry shocks and frightens them. This can cause a wound.
Tribe of One wrote:On a related note, I'd still like to see the Mind Melter gain some ability to reduce the consequences of Brain Burn. Blah, blah that's how Savage Worlds works ... I don't care. It's dumb that a psionic master has a minimum of a 1 in 12 chance of paralyzing himself every time he uses his powers. Let them ignore a 1 on the trait die (still suffering LBT brain burn on a crit fail) or give them a Spirit roll to ignore Shaken or something.
I can't do anything about it, VV specifically has forbidden messing with core mechanics.
Tribe of One wrote:I really dig all the Iconic Edges, nice work
Glad you like!
Tribe of One wrote:I really like Pender's idea for limiting Speed of Thought by treating it like autofire, with a single Wild Die. With that to balance things out, I think I'd let it apply to any of their known powers.
As I said above, I can't do anything to alter core mechanics. And core mechanics on using a power are roll the trait die and wild die. Please accept this cannot be changed. I literally can do nothing about it.
Tribe of One wrote:I see the issue others noted with Strong Psychic Scent basically counteracting Alter Aura. What about this, instead:
Strong Psychic Aura: All Mind Melters have a strong psychic aura. Dogboys and Psi-stalkers (and those like them) find them easier to sense. Anyone using detect arcana against a Mind Melter gains a +1 bonus to the roll for every power the Mind Melter has activated or maintained since the start of his last turn. This bonus also applies to opposed rolls when the Mind Melter is using conceal arcana to remain hidden.
That way, the MM flares like a beacon when they're using their powers, but can "run silent" and use conceal if they want to be sneaky.
I really like that! well done.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Combining speed of thought and some way to ignore brain burn. I would point out bolt is a great example of a power that uses autofire. So it is possible.

Speed of Thought: Mind Melters can pull out all the stops to really gain the advantage by using their psychic prowess to activate powers at the speed of thought or counter psychic mental lapses. This ability allows the Mind Melter to use any power known as a free action or ignore the backlash effects of rolling a 1 on their psionic die. There are three limitations to this talent:
  • If more than one power is activated this way only one wild die is rolled and bolt cannot be used except in its singular forum.
  • This Talent can be used a number of times per session equal to half their Spirit die.
  • There is an additional -2 per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

I could see adding an edge to allow that use of Speed of Thought, but I cannot specifically change that Brain Burn Happens (where Brain Burn = shit).

Clarity of Thought [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d8, Seasoned
You may use your Speed of Thought attempts in another manner. You may choose to use one of those uses to instead reroll a Psionics Trait check that resulted in Brain Burn. This cannot reroll a Critical Failure. The new roll may be further rerolled by spending a Benny as normal, but this may only be used once per round, as per Speed of Thought.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

I don't get the whole "We can't change core mechanics." The entire TLPG is a giant box of modifications and add-ons to the core mechanics.

Ergo: Granting the Mind Melter the chance to make a Spirit roll against Brainburn is no more a change to the core mechanics than allowing AB: Magic users to draw PPE from a ley line (not allowed in core) or allowing any AB user to cast multiple powers in a round (not allowed in core) or requiring every character to roll on Technical Difficulties when they crit fail with a piece of tech (not a drawback to tech in core), or granting Mystics a trapping that ignores Armor (not allowed in core) and on and on and on and on. It's an additional ability for the Mind Melter that lets them modify/ameliorate a consequence, in a way (Spirit roll to avoid Shaken) that is already used in other contexts.

As for Melting of the Minds: What Palladium Rifts OCC ability is that supposed to emulate? Because the fluff text in PR says specifically the "Mind Melter" name comes from the ability to influence and control minds, not the ability to create offensive brain burn with no resist roll, as a free action on every power. If you want to liquify brains or stun opponents, use the appropriate power like bolt or stun.

On top of being a made-up ability with no basis in the original fluff, it actually does break the rules, insofar as there is no ability like it that I'm aware of in SR or SW. The only "bad thing happens on a 1, regardless of Wild Die" effects I can think of from Edges or Hindrances that a player chooses and accepts the consequences for.

Can anyone else think of an offensive effect that causes a negative consequence for the target even after the target succeeds on the roll to resist? If you can, I'll reconsider, but as is it's a deal-killer for me.

EDIT: Good catch by Pender that using a single Wild Die for casting is already in the rules, WRT bolt. And I was under the impression that you could already use a Benny to reroll a 1 on Psionics and avoid brainburn, as long as it wasn't a crit fail. Is there some Clint ruling that disallows it?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Tribe of One wrote:I don't get the whole "We can't change core mechanics." The entire TLPG is a giant box of modifications and add-ons to the core mechanics.
Add-ons and Modifications, not removing options.
Tribe of One wrote:Ergo: Granting the Mind Melter the chance to make a Spirit roll against Brainburn is no more a change to the core mechanics than allowing AB: Magic users to draw PPE from a ley line (not allowed in core) or allowing any AB user to cast multiple powers in a round (not allowed in core) or requiring every character to roll on Technical Difficulties when they crit fail with a piece of tech (not a drawback to tech in core), or granting Mystics a trapping that ignores Armor (not allowed in core) and on and on and on and on. It's an additional ability for the Mind Melter that lets them modify/ameliorate a consequence, in a way (Spirit roll to avoid Shaken) that is already used in other contexts.
All of those options do not remove core mechanics, like the consequences of rolling a 1 on the trait die.
Tribe of One wrote:As for Melting of the Minds: What Palladium Rifts OCC ability is that supposed to emulate? Because the fluff text in PR says specifically the "Mind Melter" name comes from the ability to influence and control minds, not the ability to create offensive brain burn with no resist roll, as a free action on every power. If you want to liquify brains or stun opponents, use the appropriate power like bolt or stun.
On top of being a made-up ability with no basis in the original fluff, it actually does break the rules, insofar as there is no ability like it that I'm aware of in SR or SW. The only "bad thing on a 1, regardless of Wild Die" effects I can think of from Edges or Hindrances that a player chooses and accepts the consequences for.
This particular one is based on their bad reputation and what the populace THINKS happens and as a way of using Brain Burn as a bonus instead of a pain in the ass. Also, I suggested a fix, which you obviously DID NOT READ.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

It's a core mechanic that if you're shot, and damage meets or exceeds your Toughness, you get Shaken. BUT, spending a Benny lets you "change the core mechanic" and make a Spirit roll which, if successful, means you're not shaken. How is it any different to give the Mind Melter the ability to try to avoid being Shaken when it arises under different circumstances?

I did read your proposed change to Melting of the Minds. I still don't like it, don't think it's rooted in PR fluff or mechanics, and don't think there's any basis for negative effects that happen even when the target successfully resists a power. Please read my post for more detail.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

I would have to say the melting minds was born in part ironically from the ongoing discussions of folks wanting some way to reduce or eliminate the effects of brainburn.

The other part at least for me was the terrifying nature of the MM, and the picture of the dudes holding their heads in the ultimate edition.

There are not too many things that can go bad if you suceed. Poisons are really the only thing I can think of.

It does seem that SR does give lee way to change arcane backgrounds, they did it with TW and weird science. Could we do something similiar for AB super powers: Super Psionics, unlike other superpower skills this skill works for all the mind melters powers, it uses ISP, and counts as ab psionics for edge requirments. Otherwise it follows standard rules for ab superpowers. No backlash, no linked attribute.
20 ISP, which goes up to 40 due to major Psionics
Maybe drop the powers to 3.

In a way this does speak to them gaining access to many super powered Psionics.

Just an out of the box thought that probably just needs to go back.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Because of Christian's very adamant refusal to accept a non-psychic scream that wounds others, let's make sure the ability reflects that.
  • Melting of the Minds: When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target rolls a 1 (after wild die) his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught and is shaken. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 (after wild die) on his roll to resist cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them. This can cause a wound.
With regard to AB Super Powers, while it would work mechanically, it makes no sense as the Mind Melter is THE Iconic Psionic. Their power list is the power list for all other AB Psionics users
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Dude stop hovering at 8 and come up to 14. They not the iconic psionic, they are the iconic psionic power house! You want to really have them have the same ab ever tom dick and MARS can have? Shoot I want to have the MM look down their nose at anyone with ab psionics and go too bad you don't have ab super psionics. Now its time to melt your mind!

Including super is right there with an !
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Okay, after some clarification in Hangouts, it looks like the proposed tweak was to change "rolls 1 on the trait die" to resist, to "ends up with a result of 1 to resist" as the trigger, though not worded that well.

I still don't like it as an iconic ability that applies to all of the Mind Melter's powers -- I mean, as is, failing to resist telekinesis or pummelcould trigger it -- but I could accept a more clearly worded version as an IF-specific trapping (with the LBT brainburn version replacing the normal raise effect). Otherwise still a no-go from me.

Here's possible trapping language:
Melting of the Minds: A Mind Melter's ability to influence the minds of his victims is so great, sometimes she is able to establish a greater link to a target, channeling harmful psychic feedback into the target's brain. If the final result of the target's roll to resist the power, including modifiers, is 1 or less, the target's mind begins to “melt” against the mental onslaught and he becomes Shaken. This can cause a wound. If the Mind Melter activates the power with a raise, allies in a Large Burst Template of a target that becomes Shaken must succeed on a Spirit roll or also become Shaken, as the baleful psychic scream bursts forth from the victim. This replaces the normal raise effect.

As well, I'm still failing to see how giving the MM a Spirit roll to avoid being Shaken by brainburn is any different from the countless Edges that reduce penalties, or allow characters to make additional attacks, etc. etc. Specifically, Harder to Kill "breaks the rules" by giving you a roll to avoid death. Extraction gives you a roll to avoid an attack when disengaging; Danger Sense gives you a roll to avoid being surprised;

Hell, Crazies can take an Edge (Gun Nut) that simply eliminates, no roll needed, one of the biggest drawbacks of an Iconic ability (no Shooting while Losing It), and another (Sublime Chaos) that lets her ignore all limitations imposed by the Berserk Edge. Let me repeat that part: An Edge, that removes all of the drawbacks of another Edge. How is that different than an ability that simply reduces the penalties imposed by the AB: Psionics Edge?

EDIT:
Pender wrote:The other part at least for me was the terrifying nature of the MM, and the picture of the dudes holding their heads in the ultimate edition.
Dude, that's just a picture of the Mind Melter casting stun. :D
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Tribe toss out a Heroic edge that eliminates Brain Burn ( Psychic Scream too??). I see what you are saying.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

Tribe of One wrote:[*]I see the issue others noted with Strong Psychic Scent basically counteracting Alter Aura. What about this, instead:
Strong Psychic Scent: All Mind Melters have a strong psychic aura. Dogboys and Psi-stalkers (and those like them) find them easier to sense. Anyone using detect arcana against a Mind Melter gains a +1 bonus to the roll for every power the Mind Melter has activated or maintained since the start of his last turn. This bonus also applies to opposed rolls when the Mind Melter is using conceal arcana to remain hidden.
That way, the MM flares like a beacon when they're using their powers, but can "run silent" and use conceal if they want to be sneaky.[/list]
I think this is an excellent execution of this hindrance.
Tribe of One wrote:As for Melting of the Minds: What Palladium Rifts OCC ability is that supposed to emulate? Because the fluff text in PR says specifically the "Mind Melter" name comes from the ability to influence and control minds, not the ability to create offensive brain burn with no resist roll, as a free action on every power. If you want to liquify brains or stun opponents, use the appropriate power like bolt or stun.

On top of being a made-up ability with no basis in the original fluff, it actually does break the rules, insofar as there is no ability like it that I'm aware of in SR or SW. The only "bad thing happens on a 1, regardless of Wild Die" effects I can think of from Edges or Hindrances that a player chooses and accepts the consequences for.

Can anyone else think of an offensive effect that causes a negative consequence for the target even after the target succeeds on the roll to resist? If you can, I'll reconsider, but as is it's a deal-killer for me.
This was part of my gripe that has since been addressed through reasoned debate and discussion.
Pender Lumkiss wrote:I would have to say the melting minds was born in part ironically from the ongoing discussions of folks wanting some way to reduce or eliminate the effects of brainburn.

The other part at least for me was the terrifying nature of the MM, and the picture of the dudes holding their heads in the ultimate edition.
My Rifts knowledge is limited, but this is exactly what the Coalition wants. They want you to believe that Mind Melters actually melt your brain so you'll have an irrational fear of them. Don't give in! Fight the power!
High Command wrote:Because of Christian's very adamant refusal to accept a non-psychic scream that wounds others, let's make sure the ability reflects that.
  • Melting of the Minds: When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target rolls a 1 (after wild die) his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught and is shaken. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 (after wild die) on his roll to resist cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them. This can cause a wound.
This is a better explanation for how this would work. Thank you. I am nothing if not tenacious. I won't fight the "why would a psychic scream cause a wound that can then be healed by first aid" battle here. That's a core mechanic issue, not anything wrong with the MM.
Tribe of One wrote:Okay, after some clarification in Hangouts, it looks like the proposed tweak was to change "rolls 1 on the trait die" to resist, to "ends up with a result of 1 to resist" as the trigger, though not worded that well.

I still don't like it as an iconic ability that applies to all of the Mind Melter's powers -- I mean, as is, failing to resist telekinesis or pummelcould trigger it -- but I could accept a more clearly worded version as an IF-specific trapping (with the LBT brainburn version replacing the normal raise effect). Otherwise still a no-go from me.
I'd definitely be cool with this as a MM only trapping for their powers, a la Soul Blast from Mystics. I don't like blanket application of this to all of their powers. They should have to select it to the exclusion of all else, just like a fire trapping on their blast or Soul Blast on a Mystic's max damage Onslaught bolt.
Tribe of One wrote:Here's possible trapping language:
Melting of the Minds: A Mind Melter's ability to influence the minds of his victims is so great, sometimes she is able to establish a greater link to a target, channeling harmful psychic feedback into the target's brain. If the final result of the target's roll to resist the power, including modifiers, is 1 or less, the target's mind begins to “melt” against the mental onslaught and he becomes Shaken. This can cause a wound. If the Mind Melter activates the power with a raise, allies in a Large Burst Template of a target that becomes Shaken must succeed on a Spirit roll or also become Shaken, as the baleful psychic scream bursts forth from the victim. This replaces the normal raise effect.
This is where Tribe and I diverge. I don't want to start factoring in modifiers. Leave it as a crit fail (double 1s on dice) for wild cards, and a 1 on trait die for extras. Crit fails don't factor modifiers, they just fail. That's the point. Therefore, if you have the misfortune of crit failing your resistance, you suffer the effects. If it's after modifiers, then this trapping is for naught to begin with, because as HC mentioned in Hangouts, everyone gets Strong Willed and the chances of 1 or less are vastly reduced.
Tribe of One wrote:
Pender wrote:The other part at least for me was the terrifying nature of the MM, and the picture of the dudes holding their heads in the ultimate edition.
Dude, that's just a picture of the Mind Melter casting stun. :D
Agreed. Haven't seen the picture, but as was mentioned above, there is no basis for the actual melting of minds in fluff or rules. I don't mind fabricating this out of whole cloth, but let's at least be honest about the fact that we (you guys) are, indeed, fabricating this out of whole cloth.

I would like to state that I appreciate the discussions on this. I think this is the first discussion of this type that I've really been involved in. Y'all are a blast to do this with.
Final thought from me for now: I know that GMs can make things up for their bad guys. I think most everything will have SOME basis in current or house rules, because I'm sure the players would object to being hit with something like this and having no explanation for where, why, or how this happened. I know we're not supposed to look at it from the perspective of someone on the receiving end, but my own sense of game rules in general is that they should apply equally. With exception of bad guys not being subject to character creation rules (which I'm fine with, because building a bad guy from scratch to Veteran only to have them get one shotted by the party's GB would be frustrating and a waste of the GM's time) their attacks and powers still have to be FROM the rules. If this trapping/power/effect isn't installed as a house rule, I'd like to think most GMs wouldn't throw this effect at their players without some kind of advance warning or something, if at all. I know a couple people in the Hangout expressed the same concern.
Goodnight, and good luck.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Tribe toss out a Heroic edge that eliminates Brain Burn ( Psychic Scream too??). I see what you are saying.
Stalwart Mind
Requirements: Heroic, Mind Melter, Spirit d10+
For the psionic master, the use of mental powers is second nature. A Mind Melter with this Edge has honed her mental strength and discipline to such an extent that she instinctively sidesteps many of the mishaps that paralyze lesser minds. Any time a Mind Melter with this Edge suffers brainburn when activating a psionic power, she may make a Spirit roll. With a success, she is not Shaken, although other consequences, such as the possibility of affecting allies on a critical fail, still apply.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Tribe of One wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:Tribe toss out a Heroic edge that eliminates Brain Burn ( Psychic Scream too??). I see what you are saying.
Stalwart Mind
Requirements: Heroic, Mind Melter, Spirit d10+
For the psionic master, the use of mental powers is second nature. A Mind Melter with this Edge has honed her mental strength and discipline to such an extent that she instinctively sidesteps many of the mishaps that paralyze lesser minds. Any time a Mind Melter with this Edge suffers brainburn when activating a psionic power, she may make a Spirit roll. With a success, she is not Shaken, although other consequences, such as the possibility of affecting allies on a critical fail, still apply.
Well I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Those dudes are having their minds melted!

Can we just double down as a continuation of the Stalwart Mind?

Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targets another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the backlash effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Clarity of Thought [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d8, Seasoned
You may use your Speed of Thought attempts in another manner. You may choose to use one of those uses to instead reroll a Psionics Trait check that resulted in Brain Burn. This cannot reroll a Critical Failure. The new roll may be further rerolled by spending a Benny as normal, but this may only be used once per round, as per Speed of Thought.

Strength of Mind [Iconic]
Requirements:Mind Melter, Spirit d10, Heroic
You may roll your Spirit to avoid Brainburn on a roll of 1 on your Psionics trait die. In order to avoid Brainburn as the result of a Critical Failure, you must also spend a Benny, as well as make a Spirit roll at -2. Success on either result prevents the Brainburn, including secondary effects (such as affecting allies).
  • Commentary: This is about as good as I can get.






no longer a factor
I'm still against this being a trapping only, but I did use your including modifiers now, so literally bad guys and PCs alike can be immune just by having Strong Will or a bonus to their agility or whatever they are rolling to resist. It is much more balanced in that regard, and the ability matches the intent. So pretty much only mooks are bothered by this. Go GMs

Melting of the Minds: When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, is shaken as his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them. This can cause a wound.






With regards to the picture - it's a nice piece of art that can literally not be done in Palladium by the Mind Melter. The closest is Bio-Manipulation, and that is one at a time.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Maximilian wrote:This was part of my gripe that has since been addressed through reasoned debate and discussion.
Is that what we were doing? :mrgreen:
Maximilian wrote:This is where Tribe and I diverge. I don't want to start factoring in modifiers. Leave it as a crit fail (double 1s on dice) for wild cards, and a 1 on trait die for extras. Crit fails don't factor modifiers, they just fail. That's the point. Therefore, if you have the misfortune of crit failing your resistance, you suffer the effects. If it's after modifiers, then this trapping is for naught to begin with, because as HC mentioned in Hangouts, everyone gets Strong Willed and the chances of 1 or less are vastly reduced.
There are negative modifiers, too, though. Wound penalties, for one. Stuff like the environmental effects from Energy Control. It makes sense that the pain or distraction would make a target more susceptible, but I don't think those penalties, or the positive modifiers from Strong-Willed or Arcane Resistance would be all that common. The important thing is, there are things you can do to make yourself less susceptible, if it's something you care about, and there are things the MM can do to make you an easier target, by wearing you down, etc. And on the plus side, Mind Melters with their +4 bonus would be basically immune to the effect.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Well I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Those dudes are having their minds melted!
Melted by the Stun power.
:D
Pender Lumkiss wrote:Can we just double down as a continuation of the Stalwart Mind?

Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targeting another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.
And, queue the EP expenditures of "Always a Hero." This turns a 1 into a form of a success, something no other IF, race, or edge has access to. Crit fails then become successes, insofar as it has a negative effect on your enemy, causing them to be Shaken or even take a wound. "You may have crit failed your Puppet roll, but you DID shake/wound every enemy in a LBT as a result, which is essentially the Stun/Confusion power, but with sharper teeth since there's the possibility of wounding them." I'd have to veto this one, if I had veto power. Which I don't. Because I'm a peasant.
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Wounds / Fatigue: 0 / 0
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Weapon in holster: Vibroswords (2)
Wilk's 227 Pulse Laser
  • Range: 18/36/72
    Damage 2d6+1, AP 2
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2 spare e-clips
Standard out-of-robot gear from NG-S2: flashlight, compass, radio, first aid kit, fire starter, wooden cross, 1 flare, 30 feet rope
Adventure Cards
  • Epiphany: Something you never understood before suddenly "clicks." You gain a d6 in any skill you previously did not have for the remainder of this game session.
    Boom! Head Shot: You may ignore any Called Shot penalties on your next ranged attack.
    Rally: Play to cause all allies in sight/hearing to immediately lose their Shaken status.
Titan TR-001 Combat Robot
Size: 8
Crew: 1+2
Toughness: 44 (22)
Pace: 10
Weapons:
  • Medium Rail Gun
    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 3d10+4, AP 14
      ROF 3, shots 60
    Medium Missile Launchers (2)
    • Range: 200/400/800
      Damage: 8d6, AP 15, MBT
      ROF 1, shots 4
    Mini Missile Launchers (2)
    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 5d6, AP 6, SBT
      ROF 1, shots 12
    Medium Laser
    • Range: 150/300/600
      Damage: 3d10, AP 10
      ROF 1
    Dino Bladder Water Cannon
    • Range: cone
      Damage: 3d10
      5 bursts
    Good Night
    • Melee damage: Str + 2d10 MD Plasma
      Plasma Ejector damage:
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Well I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Those dudes are having their minds melted!

Can we just double down as a continuation of the Stalwart Mind?

Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targets another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the backlash effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.
I thought about something like that, but just a little toned down, like this:

Sacrifice Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Any time your Mind Melter would suffer brainburn, you may choose another living target within Smarts inches to suffer the brainburn instead. The target may make a Spirit roll to resist being Shaken. You can do this even after rolling a critical failure, in which case the chosen target becomes the center for the psychic scream.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Proposed Change

Melting of the Minds is removed
Add:
Psionic Specialization: You may take one iconic edge that you qualify for.

Add this Iconic Edge
Melting of the Minds [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d8, Psionics d10, mind reading or stun power, Veteran
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers that can be resisted, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, is shaken as his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

Tribe of One wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:Well I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Those dudes are having their minds melted!

Can we just double down as a continuation of the Stalwart Mind?

Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targets another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the backlash effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.
I thought about something like that, but just a little toned down, like this:

Sacrifice Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Any time your Mind Melter would suffer brainburn, you may choose another living target within Smarts inches to suffer the brainburn instead. The target may make a Spirit roll to resist being Shaken. You can do this even after rolling a critical failure, in which case the chosen target becomes the center for the psychic scream.
Looks good to me.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

High Command wrote:I'm still against this being a trapping only, but I did use your including modifiers now, so literally bad guys and PCs alike can be immune just by having Strong Will or a bonus to their agility or whatever they are rolling to resist. It is much more balanced in that regard, and the ability matches the intent. So pretty much only mooks are bothered by this. Go GMs

Melting of the Minds: When a Mind Melter uses one of her powers, she puts her entire will and the totality of her experience behind it. Sometimes, she creates a greater link between her and her target. Such a link is rarely good for the target of one of these powers. When resisting Mind Melter powers if the target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, is shaken as his mind begins to “melt” against the Mind Melter’s mental onslaught. On a raise, a target that rolls a 1 or less on his roll to resist, after any modifiers, cries a terrible scream as his mind is invaded by the Mind Melter, who channels her own experiences and imagination to his mind, adding her psychic oomph to the verbal cry. The shockwave of this psychically backed scream causes the target to be shaken along with all of his allies in a Large Burst Template who fail a Spirit roll as his baleful cry and the emanating psychic wave hits them. This can cause a wound.
This seems like we're getting too far afield. If this is something that is triggered by a crit fail for a wild card or 1 roll by the extra, let it be that. If this is supposed to be based on Brain Burn, let's leave it as based on Brain Burn. Considering how powerful this is (as noted below) this SHOULD be a rare happening.
Consider the power level of this trapping/effect:
Something that didn't occur to me until Jon's post. This is essentially a 2nd power within the first. MM activates (insert mind altering power here). Target crit fails resistance, which then triggers the Stun power, except worse, as being Shaken by THIS version of Stun can result in a wound. This reverse Brain Burn is a more damaging Stun power, with Mega Stun size (LBT).
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Wounds / Fatigue: 0 / 0
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Toughness: 22 (9) (Enchanted Berserker Plate Armor, Tough Breed)
Pace: 6/8 in armor
Edges: Robot Armor Jock, Ace, Combat Ace, Ambidextrous, Quick, Level Headed, Improved Level Headed, Charismatic, I Know A Guy, Elan, Battle Hardened
Weapon in hand: none
Weapon in holster: Vibroswords (2)
Wilk's 227 Pulse Laser
  • Range: 18/36/72
    Damage 2d6+1, AP 2
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2 spare e-clips
Standard out-of-robot gear from NG-S2: flashlight, compass, radio, first aid kit, fire starter, wooden cross, 1 flare, 30 feet rope
Adventure Cards
  • Epiphany: Something you never understood before suddenly "clicks." You gain a d6 in any skill you previously did not have for the remainder of this game session.
    Boom! Head Shot: You may ignore any Called Shot penalties on your next ranged attack.
    Rally: Play to cause all allies in sight/hearing to immediately lose their Shaken status.
Titan TR-001 Combat Robot
Size: 8
Crew: 1+2
Toughness: 44 (22)
Pace: 10
Weapons:
  • Medium Rail Gun
    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 3d10+4, AP 14
      ROF 3, shots 60
    Medium Missile Launchers (2)
    • Range: 200/400/800
      Damage: 8d6, AP 15, MBT
      ROF 1, shots 4
    Mini Missile Launchers (2)
    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 5d6, AP 6, SBT
      ROF 1, shots 12
    Medium Laser
    • Range: 150/300/600
      Damage: 3d10, AP 10
      ROF 1
    Dino Bladder Water Cannon
    • Range: cone
      Damage: 3d10
      5 bursts
    Good Night
    • Melee damage: Str + 2d10 MD Plasma
      Plasma Ejector damage:
      • 2d6 plasma & heat (vigor -2 or suffer level of fatigue
      • 3d6 using 2 shots
      • 6d6 using 4 shots
      Payload: 10 shots unless hooked to permanent power supply
      ROF: 3
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Tribe of One wrote:
Pender Lumkiss wrote:Well I think a picture is worth a 1000 words. Those dudes are having their minds melted!

Can we just double down as a continuation of the Stalwart Mind?

Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targets another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the backlash effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.
I thought about something like that, but just a little toned down, like this:

Sacrifice Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Any time your Mind Melter would suffer brainburn, you may choose another living target within Smarts inches to suffer the brainburn instead. The target may make a Spirit roll to resist being Shaken. You can do this even after rolling a critical failure, in which case the chosen target becomes the center for the psychic scream.
Looks good to me.
Not a fan: http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php ... 883#p29878
Tales of the 17th SOG
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

High Command:
I think I mentioned this upthread (or maybe in Hangouts) but I don't think your Clarity of Thought Edge is needed, as you can already spend a Benny to reroll a 1 on the trait die, as long as it's not a crit fail. Unless there's some Clint ruling otherwise.

As for your Strength of Mind vs. my Stalwart Mind, the only real difference is you're requiring a Benny on a crit fail, but allowing them to negate all the badness. I'm not requiring a Benny, but the psychic scream still affects everyone around them, they just get a chance to not be Shaken. That seems more fun to me, either as a GM (love those party-paralyzing psychic screams) or selfish, egotistical Mind Melter PC.

On Melting of the Minds, I still think it needs to be a trapping, because I don't see it stacking with other trappings. If you want a bolt or lower trait that is trapped as a mental link, great, it works. But I don't see a telekinetic bolt or a lower trait trapped as acidic ectoplasm causing brainburn. If it was a flat bonus, like +2 damage or -2 to resist vs. non-psychics, or -1 to PP cost, I could see it as an ability that applies across the board to everything the Mind Melter casts. But as a bonus effect, with fairly a specific mental aspect/trapping, it doesn't seem appropriate across the board, and far more suited as a trapping.

EDIT: I can live with Melting of the Minds as an Iconic Edge, especially if it's one of several a MM can choose from at creation.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

High Command wrote:Melting Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Your Mind Melter is no longer subject to backlash and if you would have suffered backlash on a power that targets another they in fact become the recipient of it. This includes the backlash effects of brain burn and Psychic Scream.

I thought about something like that, but just a little toned down, like this:

Sacrifice Mind
Requirements: Legendary, Stalwart Mind, Spirit d12
Not every Mind Melter lives up to the terrifying lies the Coalition propaganda machine would have you believe, but yours does. Any time your Mind Melter would suffer brainburn, you may choose another living target within Smarts inches to suffer the brainburn instead. The target may make a Spirit roll to resist being Shaken. You can do this even after rolling a critical failure, in which case the chosen target becomes the center for the psychic scream.

Looks good to me.
Not a fan: http://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php ... 883#p29878
Forgive the changing of the quote structure. Post didn't like it. HC only said "Not a fan:"

Also not a fan. Not even a little bit. There is literally no precedent in SW or SR to give someone a roundabout success by rolling a 1 like this. I don't mind reducing the bite of Brain Burn. But turning a 1 / Brain Burn into a Stun attack on a chosen foe? No way, man. No way. Failure should still be failure. Picture if you will, in theory, a Mind Melter, applying Born a Hero, obtaining a d12+2 in their Psionics skill via Expert and Professional edges, and some form of this thing where you turn your own Brainburn (1 on skill die) into a free use of the Stun power on a chosen target. In essence, the Mind Melter CAN NOT FAIL to have an adverse effect on their enemy. They CAN NOT FAIL. They will either succeed in activating their chosen power (anything 2 or better on the dice) or they will, as a fallback, activate a form of Greater Stun, a mega power, centering on a target of their choice.
No freaking way. That is a god-beater.
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Wounds / Fatigue: 0 / 0
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Pace: 6/8 in armor
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Weapons:
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    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 3d10+4, AP 14
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Tribe of One wrote:High Command:
I think I mentioned this upthread (or maybe in Hangouts) but I don't think your Clarity of Thought Edge is needed, as you can already spend a Benny to reroll a 1 on the trait die, as long as it's not a crit fail. Unless there's some Clint ruling otherwise.
This creates another option - was based on one of Pender's suggestions.
Tribe of One wrote:As for your Strength of Mind vs. my Stalwart Mind, the only real difference is you're requiring a Benny on a crit fail, but allowing them to negate all the badness. I'm not requiring a Benny, but the psychic scream still affects everyone around them, they just get a chance to not be Shaken. That seems more fun to me, either as a GM (love those party-paralyzing psychic screams) or selfish, egotistical Mind Melter PC.
Where as I, a team minded player, think if you're going to negate it, negate it all. Otherwise you invoke Wheaton's Law.
Tribe of One wrote:On Melting of the Minds - EDIT: I can live with Melting of the Minds as an Iconic Edge, especially if it's one of several a MM can choose from at creation.
Added as such

Also added this to Strong Psychic Scent: "In addition, Mental Resistance does not apply to detect arcana. Arcane Resistance still does apply."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Tribe of One »

Maximilian wrote:Also not a fan. Not even a little bit. There is literally no precedent in SW or SR to give someone a roundabout success by rolling a 1 like this. I don't mind reducing the bite of Brain Burn. But turning a 1 / Brain Burn into a Stun attack on a chosen foe? No way, man. No way. Failure should still be failure. Picture if you will, in theory, a Mind Melter, applying Born a Hero, obtaining a d12+2 in their Psionics skill via Expert and Professional edges, and some form of this thing where you turn your own Brainburn (1 on skill die) into a free use of the Stun power on a chosen target. In essence, the Mind Melter CAN NOT FAIL to have an adverse effect on their enemy. They CAN NOT FAIL. They will either succeed in activating their chosen power (anything 2 or better on the dice) or they will, as a fallback, activate a form of Greater Stun, a mega power, centering on a target of their choice.
No freaking way. That is a god-beater.
Well, it is a Legendary Edge, and the target you shift it to gets a Spirit roll. And if you're failing, you're blowing ISP. Still, it was mostly a brainstorm (haha) -- it's nothing I'm wedded to, or would want folks to get worked up about.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Maximilian »

Tribe of One wrote:
Maximilian wrote:Also not a fan. Not even a little bit. There is literally no precedent in SW or SR to give someone a roundabout success by rolling a 1 like this. I don't mind reducing the bite of Brain Burn. But turning a 1 / Brain Burn into a Stun attack on a chosen foe? No way, man. No way. Failure should still be failure. Picture if you will, in theory, a Mind Melter, applying Born a Hero, obtaining a d12+2 in their Psionics skill via Expert and Professional edges, and some form of this thing where you turn your own Brainburn (1 on skill die) into a free use of the Stun power on a chosen target. In essence, the Mind Melter CAN NOT FAIL to have an adverse effect on their enemy. They CAN NOT FAIL. They will either succeed in activating their chosen power (anything 2 or better on the dice) or they will, as a fallback, activate a form of Greater Stun, a mega power, centering on a target of their choice.
No freaking way. That is a god-beater.
Well, it is a Legendary Edge, and the target you shift it to gets a Spirit roll. And if you're failing, you're blowing ISP. Still, it was mostly a brainstorm (haha) -- it's nothing I'm wedded to, or would want folks to get worked up about.
Well, you've gone and set Pender off. No precedent in legendary edges for automatic successes anywhere. We're already trying to help Mind Melters by reducing or eliminating the bite of Brain Burn / 1 on trait die, something AB Magic doesn't get at all. Miracles has their own set of drawbacks, though, admittedly, you have to be trying to sin in order to trigger the transgressions.
I'm fine with some edge or framework benefit that reduces or eliminates Brain Burn. I am not fine with turning Brain Burn into an automatic successful attack (pending resistance) against a chosen foe.
If this is that negotiation tactic where you propose something so ludicrous (brainburn = attack on enemy) that the other party is delighted to agree to the lesser point (reduce/eliminate brainburn) then I believe it's working.
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Wounds / Fatigue: 0 / 0
Parry: 7
Toughness: 22 (9) (Enchanted Berserker Plate Armor, Tough Breed)
Pace: 6/8 in armor
Edges: Robot Armor Jock, Ace, Combat Ace, Ambidextrous, Quick, Level Headed, Improved Level Headed, Charismatic, I Know A Guy, Elan, Battle Hardened
Weapon in hand: none
Weapon in holster: Vibroswords (2)
Wilk's 227 Pulse Laser
  • Range: 18/36/72
    Damage 2d6+1, AP 2
    ROF 2, Payload 24, Semi auto, 3RB
2 spare e-clips
Standard out-of-robot gear from NG-S2: flashlight, compass, radio, first aid kit, fire starter, wooden cross, 1 flare, 30 feet rope
Adventure Cards
  • Epiphany: Something you never understood before suddenly "clicks." You gain a d6 in any skill you previously did not have for the remainder of this game session.
    Boom! Head Shot: You may ignore any Called Shot penalties on your next ranged attack.
    Rally: Play to cause all allies in sight/hearing to immediately lose their Shaken status.
Titan TR-001 Combat Robot
Size: 8
Crew: 1+2
Toughness: 44 (22)
Pace: 10
Weapons:
  • Medium Rail Gun
    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 3d10+4, AP 14
      ROF 3, shots 60
    Medium Missile Launchers (2)
    • Range: 200/400/800
      Damage: 8d6, AP 15, MBT
      ROF 1, shots 4
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    • Range: 100/200/400
      Damage: 5d6, AP 6, SBT
      ROF 1, shots 12
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    • Range: 150/300/600
      Damage: 3d10, AP 10
      ROF 1
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    • Range: cone
      Damage: 3d10
      5 bursts
    Good Night
    • Melee damage: Str + 2d10 MD Plasma
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Original Post updated for 1.13 version Be sure you are commenting on that.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:Original Post updated for 1.13 version Be sure you are commenting on that.
The revisions address what misgivings I had about the initial build, and I'd approve it.

As a note: if we do get into messing with how brainburn affects the MM (and I didn't see any of that in the updated OP, so I'm assuming it hasn't made its way there yet), I would caution restraint.

Edit: I'd still like to see Mental Resistance updated to better explain why it applies against non-psionic abilities. I get that this is supposed to reflect their high saves from original recipe, but the fluff doesn't say that.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Not sucking should count. And given the relative dearth of psionic enemies compared to magic ones, sucking up space is what that ability does most days. The boost there is purely mechanical based on real experience.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:Not sucking should count. And given the relative dearth of psionic enemies compared to magic ones, sucking up space is what that ability does most days. The boost there is purely mechanical based on real experience.
Not saying I have any problem with the mechanics; it just needs a narrative reason to work the way it does. Something about a MM's constant contact with the arcane allows him to resist even non-psionics when he puts his mind to it, maybe. "So it doesn't suck" is a good mechanical reason for the change, but the fluff should explain the mechanics.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

To drive home the point. Rob did a file ranking the bad guys in SFoNA. I can find 12 psionic enemies. There are 131 entries. I might be off by a few, but that is an insane amount of disparity.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm open to suggestions on the nature of the fluff required for it.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:To drive home the point. Rob did a file ranking the bad guys in SFoNA I can find 12 psionic enemies. There are 131 entries. I might be off by a few, but that is an insane amount of disparity.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I'm open to suggestions on the nature of the fluff required for it.
Again, no problem with the mechanics: I think it needed a fix. As for the fluff:
Pursuit wrote:Something about a MM's constant contact with the arcane allows him to resist even non-psionics when he puts his mind to it, maybe.
Sound reasonable?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Suggested Fix:

Mental Resistance: A mind melter's protective sixth sense applies to much more than simple base dangers like attacks. It also helps them erect psionic shields that can slow and even stop incoming psychic attacks. On occasion, when pushed, it can do more than that. This take extra effort for the task, but it can be done.
A Mind Melter has powerful defenses against the psionic powers of others. He has +4 to all checks to resist psionic effects, and +4 armor against psionic damage. This stacks with Arcane Resistance. By spending a benny, this resistance can apply to any opposed power regardless of the arcane source.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

I am currently lost as there has been some thread shift.

Can we edit the first post with the current level?


PS: I really like the Seasoned and Heroic edges created by HC for reducing Brain Burn. Shaintar has something similar called Mage.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Rob: As I said here the original post is updated. I did not include any of those other edges because honestly there was no consensus. What is in the OP is the only things to worry about at this point.

For everyone else, these were the two edges I came up with to address Brainburn. I'm still not convinced we NEED another vehicle aside from Bennies and the EP menu items that allow you to Benny out of a Crit Fail. But if we do, these are how I'd suggest doing it.

Clarity of Thought [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d8, Seasoned
You may use your Speed of Thought attempts in another manner. You may choose to use one of those uses to instead reroll a Psionics Trait check that resulted in Brain Burn. This cannot reroll a Critical Failure. The new roll may be further rerolled by spending a Benny as normal, but this may only be used once per round, as per Speed of Thought.

Strength of Mind [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d10, Heroic
You may roll your Spirit to avoid Brainburn on a roll of 1 on your Psionics trait die. In order to avoid Brainburn as the result of a Critical Failure, you must also spend a Benny, as well as make a Spirit roll at -2. Success on either result prevents the Brainburn, including secondary effects (such as affecting allies).
  • Commentary: This is about as good as I can get.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:Suggested Fix:

Mental Resistance: A mind melter's protective sixth sense applies to much more than simple base dangers like attacks. It also helps them erect psionic shields that can slow and even stop incoming psychic attacks. On occasion, when pushed, it can do more than that. This take extra effort for the task, but it can be done.
A Mind Melter has powerful defenses against the psionic powers of others. He has +4 to all checks to resist psionic effects, and +4 armor against psionic damage. This stacks with Arcane Resistance. By spending a benny, this resistance can apply to any opposed power regardless of the arcane source.
Good enough for government work. I like it.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Mental Resistance is updated and a part of the 1.13 version above - it is up to date as of this post.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

High Command wrote:Rob: As I said here the original post is updated. I did not include any of those other edges because honestly there was no consensus. What is in the OP is the only things to worry about at this point.

For everyone else, these were the two edges I came up with to address Brainburn. I'm still not convinced we NEED another vehicle aside from Bennies and the EP menu items that allow you to Benny out of a Crit Fail. But if we do, these are how I'd suggest doing it.

Clarity of Thought [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d8, Seasoned
You may use your Speed of Thought attempts in another manner. You may choose to use one of those uses to instead reroll a Psionics Trait check that resulted in Brain Burn. This cannot reroll a Critical Failure. The new roll may be further rerolled by spending a Benny as normal, but this may only be used once per round, as per Speed of Thought.

Strength of Mind [Iconic]
Requirements: Mind Melter, Spirit d10, Heroic
You may roll your Spirit to avoid Brainburn on a roll of 1 on your Psionics trait die. In order to avoid Brainburn as the result of a Critical Failure, you must also spend a Benny, as well as make a Spirit roll at -2. Success on either result prevents the Brainburn, including secondary effects (such as affecting allies).
  • Commentary: This is about as good as I can get.
I'd be fine with the first one. The second gives a vehicle for a MM to get out of crit fails (and the most common crit fail he'd be likely to face) in a setting where it's pretty hard to get out of crit fails (just via EP), which I like not at all.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

That pretty much echoes my thoughts too :D
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Ndreare »

Okay I like the Mind Melter version prsente above and I guess it it time to pick an argument over edges. But I do have one questions about the following.
VV or HC or someone wrote:See and Alter Aura: Mind Melters can use conceal arcana and detect arcana, with no ISP cost, as a free action on their turn. She must pay ISP and use an action as normal to use the Exalted version of either power.
Why does it count as an action to use the Exalted versions of Detect/Conceal Arcana for a Mind Melter, when for all the others Iconic Frameworks who get the lesser version as a free action also get the greater version as free action also?

Not a breaking point as the only Mind Melters I have now are my 8 man hit squad against the 99's. But curious still.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Pursuit
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Pursuit »

RFT wrote:
Not a breaking point as the only Mind Melters I have now are my 8 man hit squad against the 99's. But curious still.
And this, this is why Hardin always carries a conventional weapon or three along with his various TW options.
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Freemage
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Freemage »

For clarification, with True Puppet (which, honestly, I'd like to see with a more flavorful name--"Psychic Enslavement", maybe?), is the resistance roll mentioned in the last line of the Edge meant to be the one from Puppet, or the one from Mind Control? (Puppet is success to break free entirely; Mind Control is success to ignore a specific command, Raise to break free.)

Re: The current Melting of the Minds: My main concern is that it's a bit clunky. It'd be a no-fly for me for Tabletop, but here it's not as bad (since you can encourage people to list out the modifiers for their rolls when needed).
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Radecliffe
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by Radecliffe »

RFT wrote:Okay I like the Mind Melter version prsente above and I guess it it time to pick an argument over edges. But I do have one questions about the following.
VV or HC or someone wrote:See and Alter Aura: Mind Melters can use conceal arcana and detect arcana, with no ISP cost, as a free action on their turn. She must pay ISP and use an action as normal to use the Exalted version of either power.
Why does it count as an action to use the Exalted versions of Detect/Conceal Arcana for a Mind Melter, when for all the others Iconic Frameworks who get the lesser version as a free action also get the greater version as free action also?

Not a breaking point as the only Mind Melters I have now are my 8 man hit squad against the 99's. But curious still.
I don't know about any hit squads but if traditional magic users can do it as a free action it probably holds the guy that is going off raw brain power and talent could do the same.
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High Command
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Re: Mind Melter Redux

Post by High Command »

Cause I forgot they can do it as a free action? :P I'll update it.

I might go with True Domination; though Psychic Enslavement sounds nice too. Anyone else have a preference?

If you can suggest a rewrite that maintains the intent (extras that roll a 1 and wild cards that crit fail are affected), then I not only welcome it, I'm begging for it. PLEASE.
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