SavageRifts.com

From the Hangout today:

Expanded Understanding (5 EP): Your character adds a power to her power list that she would normally not have access to. This may only be selected once per Rank.

Note: This does not give your character the power; it merely adds the power to her list. She must still learn the power as normal (typically via spending an Advance on the New Power Edge).
Have I Got a Backstory for You (1 EP): At character creation, your character may make his allotted Hero’s Journey rolls on any table or combination of tables of his choosing (except on tables specifically prohibited by his Iconic Framework, if any). He does not gain extra rolls by purchase of this option.

I like and approve both

Great customization options.

I approve.

VV

I'm just going to note that Expanded Understanding is absurdly huge for TWs, since it opens up their build options (also for Enchanters, for that matter).

My gut says that opening up that can of worms should be done carefully. Limit it to once per Rank, and treat the off-list spell as one Rank higher.

I can buy into both limiting it to once per rank and the rank increase.

Example Boost for a Shifter would be seasoned.

I'm fine with both, but agree that the first option (access to powers) should be limited to once per rank. I'm ambivalent as far as increasing the rank of the power -- will approve whether or not that is adopted.

Tribe of One wrote:I'm fine with both, but agree that the first option (access to powers) should be limited to once per rank. I'm ambivalent as far as increasing the rank of the power -- will approve whether or not that is adopted.

I'm going to second this. Increasing the rank requirement by 1 is essentially going to make this a Seasoned and higher EP option, good for 1 off-list power every 6 months real-time or more. If we're leaving this as an EP option, which in itself is already end-arounding the rules, I don't care if they pick a Novice power at Novice.

I agree with the once per rank limitation. I think it overly complicates things to increase the rank.

I’d be fine with the “once per rank” thing. The adding +1 to the rank of the spell seems odd to me and targeted at a single IF (and it’s derivatives). Is there something else that’s treated similarly somewhere (i.e., is there a precedent for this)?

Pursuit wrote:I’d be fine with the “once per rank” thing. The adding +1 to the rank of the spell seems odd to me and targeted at a single IF (and it’s derivatives). Is there something else that’s treated similarly somewhere (i.e., is there a precedent for this)?

Well, quite frankly, there's no precedent for an EP menu of goodies and cheats. That being said, on that menu, there's no precedent for hiking the rank of a spell for purposes of going off-list to choose. Closest thing for that type of precedent is Warrior's Gift which requires you be a rank higher than the edge you're trying to mimic. And I don't think that's nearly the same thing.
Looks like most people are okay with it once per rank and for like-rank powers.

I will accept that, then. At some point, of course, a poll should be added. (Or separate threads started for each suggestion, with a poll on each.)

For "Have I Got a Backstory for You", I'd also want a limit barring someone from rolling on their IF-Banned tables. (This came to mind as a result of Pender's suggestion.)

Freemage wrote:For "Have I Got a Backstory for You", I'd also want a limit barring someone from rolling on their IF-Banned tables. (This came to mind as a result of Pender's suggestion.)

You’re talking basically Cybernetics and non-applicable AB tables, right?

Pursuit wrote:

Freemage wrote:For "Have I Got a Backstory for You", I'd also want a limit barring someone from rolling on their IF-Banned tables. (This came to mind as a result of Pender's suggestion.)

You’re talking basically Cybernetics and non-applicable AB tables, right?

Pretty much. Cyborgs are also barred from the Body Armor table.

Freemage wrote:

Pursuit wrote:

Freemage wrote:For "Have I Got a Backstory for You", I'd also want a limit barring someone from rolling on their IF-Banned tables. (This came to mind as a result of Pender's suggestion.)

You’re talking basically Cybernetics and non-applicable AB tables, right?

Pretty much. Cyborgs are also barred from the Body Armor table.

Updated the OP. I’ll add a poll once I’m not on mobile.

Poll up with granularity of options, but if you use them please explain why.

Say... I am a heroic TW, for the spell thing, can I drop 20 ep to add 4 new spells not on my list that I can now make as temporary devices? Or would I miss out on novice, seasoned, and veteran?

I approved the second option. I’ll approve the first once the “may not be taken more than once per rank” restriction is formally added.

Pender Lumkiss wrote:Say... I am a heroic TW, for the spell thing, can I drop 20 ep to add 4 new spells not on my list that I can now make as temporary devices? Or would I miss out on novice, seasoned, and veteran?

I didn't write it, but if it's a once per rank thing, I'd like to see it function like the other "once per rank" advances. Attribute increases, power points edges, etc. have to be taken within the borders of that rank, otherwise they're lost. Heroic TW who hasn't taken it yet can only take the one for Heroic rank.
Unless someone says something different.

Approved Backstory. As soon as Expanded Understanding is revised to delineate once per rank, and that you can't make them up retroactively, I'll approve that one.

Current wording on Expanded Understanding still omits one per rank, and also has a TW-only issue: if I am just adding a power to my list, as a TW I would not need to spend an Advance to get the power (I just drop EP once per Rank, adding offlist Powers and build gizmos when needed) Wording should be, "Once per Rank, when taking the New Power Edge, you may select a Power that is not on your list, provided you meet the Rank requirements."

I will refrain from voting until that is cleared up.

Freemage wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:20 am Current wording on Expanded Understanding still omits one per rank, and also has a TW-only issue: if I am just adding a power to my list, as a TW I would not need to spend an Advance to get the power (I just drop EP once per Rank, adding offlist Powers and build gizmos when needed) Wording should be, "Once per Rank, when taking the New Power Edge, you may select a Power that is not on your list, provided you meet the Rank requirements."

I will refrain from voting until that is cleared up.

Sure,
now go opine on the updates to the SPC framework.

Freemage wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:20 am Current wording on Expanded Understanding still omits one per rank, and also has a TW-only issue: if I am just adding a power to my list, as a TW I would not need to spend an Advance to get the power (I just drop EP once per Rank, adding offlist Powers and build gizmos when needed) Wording should be, "Once per Rank, when taking the New Power Edge, you may select a Power that is not on your list, provided you meet the Rank requirements."

I will refrain from voting until that is cleared up.

Updated to show that it can only be selected once per rank. I consider the TW thing a feature, not a flaw, so I did not include the TW-restrictive language.

I voted accordingly. The ability to get a permanent enhancement to the character's power at functionally no long-term cost is simply a bridge too far for me, and so I will not support the Expanded Understanding as-is. I was leery at full-rank even WITH the requirement of actually spending an Advance. Without it, no dice.

Freemage,

The OP says.

She must still meet the Rank requirements for the power and spend an advance on the New Power Edge in order to learn it. This may only be selected once per Rank.

Seems to me that would apply to TWs too wouldn't it? Or did I miss something in the discussion?

VV

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:00 pm Freemage,

The OP says.

She must still meet the Rank requirements for the power and spend an advance on the New Power Edge in order to learn it. This may only be selected once per Rank.

Seems to me that would apply to TWs too wouldn't it? Or did I miss something in the discussion?

VV

VV, Freemage’s objection is that TWs can make temporary gadgets of powers off of their list without needing to learn all of said powers. So, a TW could use this to add a power to his list just to enable himself to be able to make a gadget; he wouldn’t necessarily need to spend an advance learning it.

I would argue that’s a feature of the IF, and I worded the OP accordingly to fit said feature.

Pursuit wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:11 pm [So, a TW could use this to add a power to his list just to enable himself to be able to make a gadget; he wouldn’t necessarily need to spend an advance learning it.

The OP says "and spend an advance on the New Power Edge to learn it". There is nothing there exempting TWs from that requirement.

That is how I read it: you have to spend an advance and EP to get the off list power.

Since I do not want a repeat of the " device debate" let's be super clear here before I put it as an option.

VV

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:09 pm

Pursuit wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:11 pm [So, a TW could use this to add a power to his list just to enable himself to be able to make a gadget; he wouldn’t necessarily need to spend an advance learning it.

The OP says "and spend an advance on the New Power Edge to learn it". There is nothing there exempting TWs from that requirement.

That is how I read it: you have to spend an advance and EP to get the off list power.

Since I do not want a repeat of the " device debate" let's be super clear here before I put it as an option.

VV

Right. But a TW does not need to learn a power in order to make a gadget; the power just needs to be on his power list. If he wanted to make a gizmo (and have the power permanently), he’d also need to take the New Power Edge.

I am 100% okay with this.

Pursuit wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:11 pm I am 100% okay with this.

100% ok with what? Spending an Advance and EP to add a power to your list?

Then what is the objection?

I hate TWs.

VV

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:18 pm

Pursuit wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:11 pm I am 100% okay with this.

100% ok with what? Spending an Advance and EP to add a power to your list?

Then what is the objection?

I hate TWs.

VV

No, I am 100% okay with TWs being able to make gadgets of powers on their list without needing to spend an Advance on the New Power Edge. My position is unchanged.

Expanded Understanding (5 EP): Your character adds a power to her power list that she would normally not have access to. This may only be selected once per Rank.

Should just be this.

Pender Lumkiss wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:03 pm Expanded Understanding (5 EP): Your character adds a power to her power list that she would normally not have access to. This may only be selected once per Rank.

Should just be this.

OP updated and added a note for (attempted) clarity. How’s that?

Good enough for me.
Let's try it, if only TWs take it we know what's up.

VV