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Vagabond Extraordinaire

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How should this read

Leave it how it was
0
No votes
Put PCO in the do not allow list
3
27%
Remove PCO, but give the Very Individual package (which is basically PCO trading F&G for edges) the option of including HJ rolls.
8
73%
 
Total votes: 11

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High Command
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Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

Edit: Fixed some wording introducing the subject. And modified the third option.

Since apparently I have to send eratta (fixing a loophole) through House rules now, let's get to it. The issue at hand is ARES option 9. The following statements of intent were brow beaten into me during development:
ARES is not allowed to steal cool things about an IF. Note, a particular collection of otherwise available edges and skills is not inherently cool. It's a thing you could do if I said (Pick four edges and one skill at d8).
PCO gives a roll on Fortune & Glory. It was NEVER my intent as the writer, or the intent of those who oversaw and approved its development that ANY IF outside of Mars gets Fortune and Glory. It is wholly unique to MARS. Therefore it is on the do not steal list.
As it has existed wrote:9: Vagabond Extraordinaire: Choose any one MARS Package from the following choices, and one additional edge to support it. Choose from any except Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot. City Rat, Cybernetic Techno-warrior, and Merc Soldier are only allowed if the Gamemaster specifically allows it, as are any other gear centric packages similar to these. This is meant to be a vehicle to knowledge or power, not gear. Note, this only grants the specific package, not any other aspect of the MARS Iconic Framework.

If you roll this again, you gain Very Individual: Choose any combination of 4 edges (meeting prerequisites, except for rank). Also gain a d8 in the skill of your choosing.
As it should be wrote:9: Vagabond Extraordinaire: Choose any one MARS Package from the following choices, and one additional edge to support it. Choose from any except Personal Concept Option, Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot. City Rat, Cybernetic Techno-warrior, and Merc Soldier are only allowed if the Gamemaster specifically allows it, as are any other gear centric packages similar to these. This is meant to be a vehicle to knowledge or power, not gear. Note, this only grants the specific package, not any other aspect of the MARS Iconic Framework.

If you roll this again, you gain Very Individual: Choose any combination of 4 edges (meeting prerequisites, except for rank). Also gain a d8 in the skill of your choosing.
The only other option I will personally entertain is this (and this includes Soren's suggested Edit):
Also acceptable wrote:9: Vagabond Extraordinaire: Choose any one MARS Package from the following choices, and one additional edge to support it. Choose from any except Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot. City Rat, Cybernetic Techno-warrior, and Merc Soldier are only allowed if the Gamemaster specifically allows it, as are any other gear centric packages similar to these. Personal Concept Option does not get a Fortune and Glory roll, but instead gets two Hero's Journey rolls. Check with your GM on which tables are available. This option is meant to be a vehicle to knowledge or power, not gear. Note, this only grants the specific package, not any other aspect of the MARS Iconic Framework.

If you roll this again, you gain Very Individual: Choose any combination of 4 edges (meeting prerequisites, except for rank). Also gain a d8 in the skill of your choosing.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Tribe of One »

Keep it as is. It’s a feature that adds interesting options not otherwise possible (vehicles, Connections, battle fury blades). It’s not overpowered and it hasn’t caused problems.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Koshnek »

I haven't voted yet. Was leaning towards 1 with 3 a strong second...

But, your comment is swaying me to 3.

One of the core specific bonuses and intents of MARS was: You get to start with badass cool shit. You've been out there, done things! You're someone! You might not be a mighty dragon, but by god your battle fury blade is pretty bomb!

Allowing anything other than M.A.R.S. rad gear choices actually does steal thunder from M.A.R.S.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise I believe Ill be voting 3 after all.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Tribe of One »

Koshnek wrote:I haven't voted yet. Was leaning towards 1 with 3 a strong second...

But, your comment is swaying me to 3.

One of the core specific bonuses and intents of MARS was: You get to start with badass cool shit. You've been out there, done things! You're someone! You might not be a mighty dragon, but by god your battle fury blade is pretty bomb!

Allowing anything other than M.A.R.S. rad gear choices actually does steal thunder from M.A.R.S.

Unless someone convinces me otherwise I believe Ill be voting 3 after all.
ARES let’s you make a demigod. Demigods should have battle fury blades.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

How's this for incentive - it's literally your option! :D
Tribe of One wrote:ARES let’s you make a demigod. Demigods should have battle fury blades.
Then go roll on the table that gets you there! Go two for one if you need to. if a BFB is intrinsic to your concept, there are ways to get it that DO NOT involve F&G.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Ndreare »

I am at an impasse on this one.


I was very, very, very, very vocal about not letting ARES steal the thunder from the other IF's. But Looking and without the equipment, 3 F&G and 20 XP I do not feel it is really stepping on the toes.

I totally see Tribe's point about letting them have vehicles, armor or weapons and personally think only rolling a 12 or Smarts is even worth it on the table as all the other results suck IMNHO.

I will abstain for a bit on this one and see how it flushes out.

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[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list]see Cards in Rob's games bellow for exact card.[/list][/color][/b]

,
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Koshnek »

Dude! You get to be a demi-god! Super badass! Does a demi-god even need a BFB? Way cooler than anything a MARS option can give you, thematically, imo!

Lucious Numonis was just me testing out the ARES IF, and he turned out as one of my favorite characters I've made! (Which, I know, is weird being I pulled him from his game before the game even started - I blame Stoic). A freakin half-lightning elemental wolfen?! Super rad!

But going back to your Demi-God with a Battle-fury blade. With his coolness capacitors already nearly maxed out, adding in PCO he only has an 8% chance of getting a BFB. Hard capped, no two-for-ones.

Reworded, he has an 8% chance, with all that cool dialed up to 11 as a demigod, to get one of the MARS IF's COOLEST options! And if a MARS doesn't get lucky they have to give up one of their 3-4 picks to make sure they get it!

(I specifically didn't go into EP - because then you are stepping on MARS even more because you have a good chance at being able to choose BFB, which if FG was allowed for ARES, is stepping on MARS toes even further)
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

No part of vagabond extraordinaire is supposed to grant ANY gear. I'm honestly hesitant about allowing HJ rolls (and I think I need to remove gear tables there as well), but I feel it's a better option that F&G.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Tribe of One »

High Command wrote:How's this for incentive - it's literally your option! :D
Tribe of One wrote:ARES let’s you make a demigod. Demigods should have battle fury blades.
Then go roll on the table that gets you there! Go two for one if you need to. if a BFB is intrinsic to your concept, there are ways to get it that DO NOT involve F&G.
No, you can’t. F&G or the MARS Merc Soldier are literally the only way to get a BFB. It’s not on any HJ tables.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

Cybernetic Techno-warrior, and Merc Soldier are only allowed if the Gamemaster specifically allows it, as are any other gear centric packages similar to these. This is meant to be a vehicle to knowledge or power, not gear.
If your GM agrees, great. Choose Merc Soldier and go! Otherwise, it's never really been an option.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Tribe of One »

High Command wrote:
Cybernetic Techno-warrior, and Merc Soldier are only allowed if the Gamemaster specifically allows it, as are any other gear centric packages similar to these. This is meant to be a vehicle to knowledge or power, not gear.
If your GM agrees, great. Choose Merc Soldier and go! Otherwise, it's never really been an option.
Lol. It’s always been an option for ARES. You’re trying to take it away.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Freemage »

Okay, I had to read through this several times to understand what the purpose here was--stating outright, "PCO grants an additional F&G roll, and that extra roll allows for options that were not meant for ARES" would've helped grok the debate. Remember, don't assume folks have followed whatever discussion led to the post here.

Okay, curmudgeonly coot mode off, now.

How about, "If you choose PCO, you get two extra HJ Table rolls, rather than a free roll on the F&G table"? Gives you the rest of the flexibility of the PCO, but not the F&G specifics, instead assuming you rolled a 12 and took that particular option.

And we also still have the Merc Route to the BFB if that's intrinsic to the character, with GM approval.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

Tribe of One wrote:Lol. It’s always been an option for ARES. You’re trying to take it away.
A loophole only; never intent. Closing loopholes is what eratta is for.
Freemage wrote:Okay, I had to read through this several times to understand what the purpose here was--stating outright, "PCO grants an additional F&G roll, and that extra roll allows for options that were not meant for ARES" would've helped grok the debate. Remember, don't assume folks have followed whatever discussion led to the post here.
I'll fix that. Sorry
Freemage wrote:How about, "If you choose PCO, you get two extra HJ Table rolls, rather than a free roll on the F&G table"? Gives you the rest of the flexibility of the PCO, but not the F&G specifics, instead assuming you rolled a 12 and took that particular option.
And we also still have the Merc Route to the BFB if that's intrinsic to the character, with GM approval.
that was my intent with the redo of Very Individual, but I can live with it.

Also Derrick, this is literally what you said, not my version of it
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Snake Eyes »

I voted to leave it how it was. If the coin toss is between one F&G roll or two HJ rolls, I don't see the net difference.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by KahlessNestor »

I think if the intent was to not have it, as stated by the creator, and understood and agreed by the previous administration (?), then that is what it should be. We could leave the HJ and F&G roll options for GMs to distribute as they like.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by High Command »

Snake Eyes wrote:I voted to leave it how it was. If the coin toss is between one F&G roll or two HJ rolls, I don't see the net difference.
The difference is F&G is MARS only. HJ is everyone.
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Re: Vagabond Extraordinaire

Post by Venatus Vinco »

Been away.

Not sad I missed this debate.

Voted.

Looks like we have enough to move on soon.

VV
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