SavageRifts.com

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 am**

Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Super Powered Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. Super Karma will not be used, instead the available points will be determined by the iconic Framework.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!
Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.
Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
Mutation: For the price of One Major Hindrance, two Minor Hindrances, or two points of negative racial traits (TLPG p. 50), the character may add another 2 to their total available Power Points. The GM may limit it to only races from the core Savage Worlds Deluxe book or other races with no more than 4 points of Negative Racial Abilities.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.
Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:20 am**

25 Power Points seems crazy. When we were talking about this previously as a MARS package we bandied around 10 points, which is on par with the roughly 5 Edges (10 "build points") worth of stuff most other MARS packages get. (This assumes they still get 20 XP, 3 F&G rolls and 3 HJ rolls like all other MARS characters).

As a MARS package, I'd give them AB: Superpowers and 10 Power Points, along with the normal MARS benefits. Cybernetic Resistance and choice of gear as you've outlined below.

I'd then let them access the Power Points Edge per the normal SPC2 rules (5 PP, once per rank), as well as Super Karma to take an extra Major Hindrance for 5 PP at start (max on any given power will always be 10).

Essentially, the MARS package just adopts the Rising Stars rules for Street Fighter-level Supers, with the addition of Cybernetic Resistance.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:26 am**

4 Fortune and Glory Points (one from the package and three from the framework) = roughly 8 edges = so 16 PP; the 5 skill points from the package is 5 PP, and two edges from the package is another 4 PP = 16+4+5=25; the AB is balanced by the cybernetics drawback

Limiting it to 2 PP makes it simply the same as an advance.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:27 am**

This build would have no FG and start at Novice correct?

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:35 am**

High Command wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:26 am 4 Fortune and Glory Points (one from the package and three from the framework) = roughly 8 edges = so 16 PP; the 5 skill points from the package is 5 PP, and two edges from the package is another 4 PP = 16+4+5=25; the AB is balanced by the cybernetics drawback

Limiting it to 2 PP makes it simply the same as an advance.

It's not really a MARS package if you're taking away all of the F&G rolls from the base IF. The 20 XP and 3 F&G rolls ought to be left alone, I think. Actual MARS packages run from about 8 points on the low side to 13 on the high side (PCO). Getting the AB + 10 PP and Cybernetic Resistance (2+10-2) is right down the middle, with some slightly-better-than-usual trade-offs possible through Super Karma (5 PP for a Major Hindrance, a 3-point benefit) and the Power Points Edge (5 PP per "2-point" Edge). That benefit is balanced by the inability to access all of the traditional long-term routes to power (magic, psionics, TW weapons, and cyber) and the eternal cap of 10 points on any single power.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:36 am**

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:27 am This build would have no FG and start at Novice correct?

VV

Don't we already have that with the 40-pt version in House Rules?

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:40 am**

It would still have the 20 XP, but no F&G - as mentioned in the package.

Yes, and we're not looking to replace anything - as I said multiple times already its simply a thought experiment. How would you integrate SPC into a MARS build

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:50 am**

Tribe of One wrote:It's not really a MARS package if you're taking away all of the F&G rolls from the base IF.

Trading away benefits for other benefits is an accepted way of customizing MARS Packages.

Tribe of One wrote:The 20 XP and 3 F&G rolls ought to be left alone, I think. Actual MARS packages run from about 8 points on the low side to 13 on the high side (PCO). Getting the AB + 10 PP and Cybernetic Resistance (2+10-2) is right down the middle, with some slightly-better-than-usual trade-offs possible through Super Karma (5 PP for a Major Hindrance, a 3-point benefit) and the Power Points Edge (5 PP per "2-point" Edge). That benefit is balanced by the inability to access all of the traditional long-term routes to power (magic, psionics, TW weapons, and cyber) and the eternal cap of 10 points on any single power.

You should really read through the GM chat from this morning - this was one of many routes suggested as how to handle Supers differently. But remember that without Rising Stars, you cannot gain extra PP via advances. This bypasses that without adding a house rule. Also, Super Karma is not a listed option here. And even the site approved option, it can only be used if you trade away HJ rolls and start with no gear (ie a recent Rift Refugee).

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:58 am**

Er, you're no longer creating a MARS Package if you're mucking around with the HJ and F&G rolls granted by the base IF. At that point, you're modifying the IF, which was not the stated purpose. But whatever, I offered my advice on the best way to do it, which is to use the established Rising Stars rules and keep the tinkering within the bounds of the package. You seem to want to go a different route, so go for it.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:02 am**

Meh, tbh I'm not really all that impressed by it and see some potential downfalls (add this onto a high powered race). And the HJ aren't being modified at all, just F&G. That was VV's request. He wanted to get rid of XP as well, but that really is a new IF at that point and I don't see it helping much. I thought it was interesting enough to write down.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:08 am**

Yeah, I guess it's just a weird middle point that doesn't interest me. I have a real fondness for the Heroes Unlimited-style superheroes options from Rifts Conversion Book, which seemed to fall into two camps: Either Scholars & Adventurer types with a couple of minor mutations/powers (typically Lone Star escapees in our games) or full-on Supers brought over from another world. A Street Hero-level MARS package seems perfect for the one, while the 40-45 PP custom IF in House Rules covers the latter (though could probably be tweaked to allow for more long-term advancement).

I think both are balanced (pursuant to GM review of power combos, as always) and scratch my personal nostalgia itch.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:36 am**

Where as I have never seen a Rifts Native Super that hasn't had at least a Major Power or enough Minor Powers to choke a horse. But honestly, I'd still be concerned with even a 10 point build over a powerful race.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:38 am**

Tribe of One wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:35 am
High Command wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:26 am 4 Fortune and Glory Points (one from the package and three from the framework) = roughly 8 edges = so 16 PP; the 5 skill points from the package is 5 PP, and two edges from the package is another 4 PP = 16+4+5=25; the AB is balanced by the cybernetics drawback

Limiting it to 2 PP makes it simply the same as an advance.
It's not really a MARS package if you're taking away all of the F&G rolls from the base IF.

Not true the robot sets a precedent for removing F & G rolls when needed

Although I would not take them all. The SPC characters lose a lot by not being able to access cybernetics or other arcane. I experienced this with Eco who cannot even access techno wizard devices. It's frustrating meaning her relative power is the same at veteran as it was that novice.

Also as a note most of the other frameworks take stuff from SPC, but are still allowed other cool stuff

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:47 am**

RFT wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:38 am Although I would not take them all. The SPC characters lose a lot by not being able to access cybernetics or other arcane. I experienced this with Eco who cannot even access techno wizard devices. It's frustrating meaning her relative power is the same at veteran as it was that novice.

In chat I was willing to entertain allowing taking other ABs...my argument was the Burster and Cyberknight who both have obvious SPC powers and AB Psionics

Adding the Rising Starts/Growth Potential mitigates the loss of cybernetics in my mind.

TBH, allowing Arcane abilities mixing with super powers this approach can largely emulate most IFs.

Tribe's point is good too...I also like a "minor" hero with 10 SPC points and all the rest of the MARS stuff.

Maybe we need to tweak the house rule version that exists now. Afterall it was approved as a playtest.

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:39 pm**

RFT wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:38 amNot true the robot sets a precedent for removing F & G rolls when needed

Ah, you're right. Still, taking them all away changes MARS a bit too much for my taste.

Since we've seen somewhat lackluster play long-term with the current 40-45 pts, never more version, I'd be tempted to playtest at two levels:

Minor Mutant/Street Level
MARS (full XP, HJ and F&G) with custom package that grants Street Fighter-level powers (10 PP) with the Rising Stars and Super Karma* options. Add Cyber Resistant and restrict them to Human only (at least from a rules perspective, trap however you want).

(*If they take Super Karma, they must select at least 2 points of Negative Racial Abilities from TLPG, such as Distinctive D-Bee, Dependency, etc., in addition to a Major Hindrance).

Major Mutant/Heavy Hitter
Replaces IF. Give them 3 (to 5?) HJ rolls and basic equipment. They start as Heavy Hitters (30 PP) using the Rising Stars and Super Karma* options. Add Cyber Resistant and restrict them to Human only (at least from a rules perspective, trap however you want).

(*If they take Super Karma, they must select at least 2 points of Negative Racial Abilities from TLPG, such as Distinctive D-Bee, Dependency, etc., in addition to a Major Hindrance).

Throw one of each in a game alongside some Lords of War and Masters of Magic and see how they hold up after a few quarters.

EDIT: Allowing them to also access AB: Psionics or AB: Magic seems like a bridge too far ... Spell powers on top of superpowers could get gonzo, but using TW items might not be out of line. Maybe a custom superpower, like this?

Inner Reservoir (3/level)
You have a pool of mystical or psionic energy that you can use to power techno-wizard items. Each level of this power gives you 5 PPE or ISP (choose one) that can only be used to activate and power TW devices. These PPE or ISP regenerate at the rate of 1 per hour.

Although with Super-Tech, Tinkering and Enchanted items available, I don't know that it's really necessary.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:57 pm**

Tribe of One wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:39 pm EDIT: Allowing them to also access AB: Psionics or AB: Magic seems like a bridge too far ... Spell powers on top of superpowers could get gonzo, but using TW items might not be out of line. Maybe a custom superpower, like this?

Crazy, Cyberknight, and Burster all mix super powers and Core ABs. The bridge has been crossed and burned at this point.

Given how hard I fought initially to avoid this I am surprised I am saying it now. But if it includes ABs then you basically have a streamlined way of making a variety of IF concepts.

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:19 pm**

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:57 pm
Tribe of One wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:39 pm EDIT: Allowing them to also access AB: Psionics or AB: Magic seems like a bridge too far ... Spell powers on top of superpowers could get gonzo, but using TW items might not be out of line. Maybe a custom superpower, like this?
Crazy, Cyberknight, and Burster all mix super powers and Core ABs. The bridge has been crossed and burned at this point.

Given how hard I fought initially to avoid this I am surprised I am saying it now. But if it includes ABs then you basically have a streamlined way of making a variety of IF concepts.

VV

Ah, okay. I'm not opposed to that if cooking up a custom IF that's going to be peer-reviewed and run through the House Rules gauntlet, and where superpower-based abilities, Edges and an AB are part of a deliberate design. But I think it's too prone to abuse (in a system already vulnerable to abuse) to just throw AB powers in on top of a full Superpower build for the cost of an Edge, when you're not taking care to balance it all.

What I was trying to do with my suggestions above was to have a couple of ways of doing mutant superheroes in Rifts, not create a system for creating custom IFs for any occasion or concept.

EDIT: Long and short, I don't think it needs to be a hard and fast rule that Superpowers and an AB can't mix. With some care, they can, as we see with the Crazy and CK. But I'm not in favor of making it a standard option.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:20 pm**

Mercenary, adventure, rogue, scholar. Max I would be comfortable with is a retrapp of the vagabond if they wanted to play with 2pts of super powers have at it.

I am not really 100% sure how cybernetics equates to powers, but if it were 1-1( like a 1 pt strain cyber equals more or less a 1-pt superpower ) then I would just use the head hunter 4 pts of cyvwrware and toss in the new power edge giving 9pts total. If it needs to have the robot deduction of one fans g roll so be it. 9 pts, 2 f and g rolls, 3 HJs, and 20xp.

Anyways just some thought in my brain that I thought I could include here. No babies were hurt, and I respect you all. Lots of well wishes- Pender

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:27 pm**

Oh,

MARS technowarrior as a template works. Start with cybernetic equal to 6 strain plus the Upgradeable edge become start with 6 (or whatever the translation is) SPC points and an edge.

The vagabond already includes a 2 point super power (Gifted) so that works.

We actually have two to four different premises at work. All of them fun and worth looking into.

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:01 pm**

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:27 pm Oh,

MARS technowarrior as a template works. Start with cybernetic equal to 6 strain plus the Upgradeable edge become start with 6 (or whatever the translation is) SPC points and an edge.

The vagabond already includes a 2 point super power (Gifted) so that works.

We actually have two to four different premises at work. All of them fun and worth looking into.

VV

1 Strain of cybernetics on average is worth about 2 SPC power points. For whatever reason, Edges are super-expensive and Skill bumps are super-cheap. But for the most part everything else follows the 1 Strain = 2 Power Points formula.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:14 pm**

If Super Karma is used we need it written in the framework if it provides 5 or 10.

Also I like inner reserve.

Finally, I would want a 15 PP hard limit or 23 with Best their is.

Heavy Hitters have a 20/30 limit and that is just too powerful IMNHO.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:49 pm**

RFT wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:14 pm If Super Karma is used we need it written in the framework if it provides 5 or 10.

Also I like inner reserve.

Finally, I would want a 15 PP hard limit or 23 with Best their is.

Heavy Hitters have a 20/30 limit and that is just too powerful IMNHO.

Super Karma would work just like it does in SPC2, so 5 points for Street Fighter-level, 10 points for Heavy Hitter.

I'm not sure the lower cap on powers is really needed -- not to many powers can even go past 15-23, and the ones that can are either fine or need to be watched carefully for other reasons, well. I mean, 10 levels of Extra Limbs isn't going to pass muster regardless of points cost.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a lower cap, just trying to get an idea of what exactly you're worried about before perhaps unintentionally banning some perfectly acceptable uses, as well.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:58 pm**

Matter Control 15 would allow throwing UAR1s around like twigs.

Growth 10 would be nice though.

I mean if it is a play test we could try. But my rarely used 'no' may get exercised more than I like.

Light Speed Flight?

PS: Now I will have a visual of the Hundred Handed PC giants running around.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:09 pm**

VV, i changed author on the initial post so you can make edits how you want it to look.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:28 pm**

This is a cross post but Derek is working on the same thing

viewtopic.php?t=3058

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:34 pm**

This is fun, since we don't actually have to agree.

I am liking the idea of a MARS Technowarrior base. Assuming 1 strain = 2 SPC points it means 12 point. Close to Tribe's original 10.

MARS Super Solider (or whatever)
Starts with AB (Super Powers, SPC) and 12 SPC power points.
Choose starting gear from any IF.

Bob's your uncle.

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:36 pm**

Cybernetics don't need a AB, SPC Super Powers do; So unless you're tossing in a hindrance to counteract it, 2 of those points need to go to the AB, which brings us back, exactly, to Tribe's idea.

Does there need to be a limit? And can they get more? If so is it Rising Stars? (5 PP per edge)

and Rob, what we are focusing here is like the MARS version of a full IF, which is what Derek is working on.

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:43 pm**

High Command wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:36 pm Cybernetics don't need a AB, SPC Super Powers do; So unless you're tossing in a hindrance to counteract it, 2 of those points need to go to the AB, which brings us back, exactly, to Tribe's idea.

Technowarrior Starts with Upgradeable edge and 6 strain worth of cybernetics

Super Solider starts with AB Super Powers edge and 12 points of powers.

Seems to map perfectly to me (1 edge plus upgrades)

VV

Posted: **Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:45 pm**

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!

Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.

Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Arcane Background (Super Powers) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:42 pm**

I like this version I would allow it in play

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:44 pm**

Have you going to allow the edge it gives him 5 powerpoints for activating techno wizard toys? I would love it if I was allowed to take that for Echo

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:52 pm**

RFT wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:44 pm Have you going to allow the edge it gives him 5 powerpoints for activating techno wizard toys? I would love it if I was allowed to take that for Echo

Sure. Or take a race with PPE like D'Norr.

But not need to limit them.

VV

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:11 pm**

Big breaks....

You are allowing SPC to combine with traditional race creation?

I need to digest that. But definitely 100% against for full on Supers and Rising Stars

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:45 pm**

RFT wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:11 pm Big breaks....

You are allowing SPC to combine with traditional race creation?

I need to digest that. But definitely 100% against for full on Supers and Rising Stars

Right...forgot about that. No races. Was just trying to find a loophole.

VV

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:56 pm**

Is the newest version with or without FGs? Originally, it was without FGs.

With Super Karma or without?

No races is fine with me. That would be a...combination, there.

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:00 pm**

Koshnek wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:56 pm Is the newest version with or without FGs? Originally, it was without FGs.

With Super Karma or without?

No races is fine with me. That would be a...combination, there.

The reduced 12 Power Points is in order to allow the F&G Rolls

Posted: **Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:13 pm**

As I have a long-standnig love affair with MARS, I absolutely adore this. I kind of wish I had waited for this to fill out before I finished Malcom.

But then, I'm really happy with how he turned out - and Rob might knife me if I went back to the drawing board again

.

Might want to clarify the race bit at the top, one way or the other.

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:36 am**

peronally since it is restricted to 22 points forever (12 + max 5 advances) I would allow it to combine with a race. Can it REALLY be worse than a Major Psychic with Quickness, Speed, and Boost/Lower Trait?

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:59 am**

High Command wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:36 am peronally since it is restricted to 22 points forever (12 + max 5 advances) I would allow it to combine with a race. Can it REALLY be worse than a Major Psychic with Quickness, Speed, and Boost/Lower Trait?

I'm kinda okay with it...can a Grackletooth do it?

cannot take any Arcane Background using PPE or ISP

AB Super Powers (SPC) doesn't use ISP or PPE!

Tribe feels there's language in the SPC to support using races as the base if they are "common to your setting". So, there's a way in.

Maybe it's a can of worms we open slowly? Start with the package as is and see about race from there?

VV

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:20 am**

Mutant Grackletooth! Honestly, would it be more broken than a Grackletooth Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot?

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am**

High Command wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:20 am Mutant Grackletooth! Honestly, would it be more broken than a Grackletooth Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot?

As I've suggested before, I think you could actually get closer to a PR-faithful Grackle hero this way. And the only way it'll be broken is the same way you'd break a human with SPC2.

EDIT: Maybe allow it here, but not with the full, 30-pt Superhero IF, and see how it goes.

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:49 am**

Well,

Rather than put it to a vote at this time...any GM willing to try it?

Any player want to try it?

Not necessarily an SPC2 grackletooth but the package in general.

VV

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:56 pm**

I've got a space in the New West game if anyone wants to build a Lone Star escapee.

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:00 pm**

@Koshnek , if Foxx returns to the game before his month is up Tribes offer may be great.

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:34 pm**

If nothing else, I can stat up a MARS package super for shits and giggles, because that is what I do...

But I'm pretty sold on Malcom. Hmm, new west? I got choo.

OP version of Mars Super Soldier accurate?

20 XP, 3 FGs, 3 HJs, 12 PP, Super Karma?, BTI?, Power Points for 2 PP, and the 5 PPE/ISP Power Edge for 3/PP?

Posted: **Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:52 pm**

I think your 5ppe gets you some ppts to use tw.

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:14 am**

personally I would not use Super Karma with this. That's more for the full IF - 10 points here is almost a full 100% increase. Just like this has a reduced amount you can gain at each rank, I don't think it should have Super Karma.

but I have no issue if someone wants to use the new power for PPE/ISP

Tribe of One wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am
High Command wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:20 am Mutant Grackletooth! Honestly, would it be more broken than a Grackletooth Power Armor Pilot or Robot Pilot?
As I've suggested before, I think you could actually get closer to a PR-faithful Grackle hero this way. And the only way it'll be broken is the same way you'd break a human with SPC2.

EDIT: Maybe allow it here, but not with the full, 30-pt Superhero IF, and see how it goes.

Well the full IF limits you to Human. That seems overkill here.

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:36 am**

We have Growth Potential for the MARS version and we have Super Karma for the full Super Framework.

Two separate edges, with different scales in mind.

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:39 am**

The way Super Karma works in SPC is the amount you get is tied to the campaign level. The full 30-pt IF starts at 30, which is basically Heavy Hitter level, so Super Karma grants them 10 pts. The MARS package is basically Street Fighter level, so Super Karma would only grant them 5 points, which seems reasonable.

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:53 pm**

I had assumed I’d super karma applied, starting with 12 pp meant you would get 5 from SK. I’m ok either way, just want to nail SK down either direction before getting started.

Also race, BTI/Mastery/Dynajc Duo/setting rules/SPC hindrances

Posted: **Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:19 pm**

Unless we've specifically changed it here, I'd default to what was allowed in the earlier SPC framework viewtopic.php?f=69&t=658#p10983

So: "The Knockback, Synergy, Power Stunt, and Power Trick setting rules apply to this character. ... Super heroes can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges."

As for race, it sounds like folks are okay with experimenting with a non-human for the MARS build, to see what happens.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:32 am**

Tribe of One wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:19 pm Unless we've specifically changed it here, I'd default to what was allowed in the earlier SPC framework viewtopic.php?f=69&t=658#p10983

So: "The Knockback, Synergy, Power Stunt, and Power Trick setting rules apply to this character. ... Super heroes can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges."

As for race, it sounds like folks are okay with experimenting with a non-human for the MARS build, to see what happens.

As written right now - those are benefits of the full IF, NOT the AB. If that needs to change, we can, but it is not at all stated as is. All of those limits seemed like the sort of thing to boost the IF. I was specific about saying that 22 in total at legendary was not that bad. Not 27, or any other amount. A boost of five points is still 40% increase in total starting points. We don't allow their progression to boost them that high. And I actually don't agree with allowing Super Karma for Rifts Earth natives (ie those who get HJ rolls).

For reference:
Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:51 am**

I have neither the time nor inclination to debate the list of setting rules, Edges etc. available to the MARS package, so defaulting to what was allowed before seemed reasonable, consistent and efficient. If you'd like to dictate some other list, go nuts.

As for native/non-native Supers, there seemed to be some consensus in the other thread to eliminate the distinction (certainly my preferred option) between the two -- leaving that narrative up to the players, just like we do with every other race and IF that could be a D-Bee but still gets HJ rolls -- and allowing anyone to take Super Karma. If we want SK to reduce the number of HJ rolls (say, from 5 to 3) in addition to the extra Hindrance, I'd be open to that idea.

As for Super Karma (5 pts) on MARS Supers, I don't think we'd reached a consensus one way or the other. I think it's fine, and better mirrors the SPC2 Rising Stars options. I appreciate you have a different view. As the question was what he ought to use for a playtest in my game, I went with my preference.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 am**

The problem is your preference just unilaterally rewrote the rules.

And I have not at any point said no we can't do that, I have merely asked that someone in favor of it present the option. Since you seem resistant to even doing that much due dilligence, I'll toss something together.

Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!

Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
The Super Karma option adds 5 PP when using this package.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:07 am**

You know what, I'm not going to get into a pissing match today, Patrick. If you had wanted me to submit a formal write-up, you could have made the request directly. Your previous comment this morning struck me as more along the lines of "I don't like this."

What you have submitted is fine with me. Hopefully Derrick can move ahead now with clear directions.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:35 pm**

I still want my Growth Potential Edge available for this framework.

Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:24 pm**

Is this getting a playtest?

Awesome.

With or without races?

VV

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:26 pm**

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:24 pm Is this getting a playtest?

Awesome.

With or without races?

VV

I am trying to encourage the Phase world game to play test these supers packages. But I think they are going for the full IF instead of the minor one. So if you want to test it...

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:37 pm**

Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:24 pm Is this getting a playtest?

Awesome.

With or without races?

VV

I think the idea was to allow non-human races with the MARS package, but not with the full Super IF, and see how each plays.

Derrick seemed keen to play his full Supers guy somewhere. A MARS-Super (likely a Lone Star experiment) would fit right into the New West game if he or someone else wants to playtest one there. Could be a Grackle, Dog Boy ... mutant Psi-Stalker? Mutie Dog Boy could be really interesting, with the possibility of taking an Attribute boost, that breed Edge and Growth Potential at every rank. Go for a totally hulked out bruiser with minimal Edges and skills.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:39 pm**

Tribe of One wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:37 pm
Venatus Vinco wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:24 pm Is this getting a playtest?

Awesome.

With or without races?

VV
I think the idea was to allow non-human races with the MARS package, but not with the full Super IF, and see how each plays.

This is also what I understand the ruling to be.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:11 pm**

RFT wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:35 pm I still want my Growth Potential Edge available for this framework.

Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Yeah, I was rewriting what would need to be changed to accomodate what Tribe was wanting. Growth Potential worked as is

Full annotated version:

Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!
Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.

Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.

The Super Karma option adds 5 PP when using this package.

Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.
Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:42 pm**

Yeah, sorry, I became rather fond of Malcom Young rather quickly. His power set is fairly simple (if only his sword were), and is still pretty useful. I also like his weird backstory

.

I have the EP for two characters or...one character and a sig item. I'm down for playtesting both IFs (MARS being my shit, I am particularly enthused). If someone else wants to do the MARS version Ill happily take my Sig item sooner rather than later, though

.

Tribe I PMd you through hangouts about this, but I don't know if you got it or not.

Is Patrick's most recent write-up more or less acceptable for everyone?

Edit: Is this a thing or no?

Inner Reservoir (3/level)
You have a pool of mystical or psionic energy that you can use to power techno-wizard items. Each level of this power gives you 5 PPE or ISP (choose one) that can only be used to activate and power TW devices. These PPE or ISP regenerate at the rate of 1 per hour.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 am**

I am testing a build for Phase World right now.

Essentially, it let me capture the sheer power of one of the races (Seljuk).

As for Inner Reserve take it up with your test GM.

VV

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:23 am**

I translated one of the characters from my EU game using this, and I have two observations:

1. Super Karma is too much. It adds far more to the character than a technowarrior can get. It fits the full IF, it does not fit a package that is supposed to be on par with Technowarrior. I know we all want MOAR when it comes to SPC. I do too, and I did not hesitate to grab the extra points and use them to fully realize the vision. But It's too much. VV said as much in the comments of his Seljuk. If we want to drop it to 2 points, we might consider that good enough.

2. This is freaking cool! Seriously, translating Mane's one off tail was not something I expected to do well. But this did it - well.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:51 am**

I approve this can we put it up for a vote as a final options?

High Command wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:11 pm
Yeah, I was rewriting what would need to be changed to accommodate what Tribe was wanting. Growth Potential worked as is

Full annotated version:
Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!
Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.

Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.

The Super Karma option adds 5 PP when using this package.

Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.
Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:50 am**

I'm fine with removing Super Karma if the rest looks fine.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:01 pm**

I'll echo High Command's comments but in reverse order.

1. This is very cool and useful.

2. Super Karma does seem to upset the balance vis a vis a technowarrior.

3. I will also add that I wonder about there being no strain on powers, this derived Stat putsa big throttle on cybernetic abilities - you need to invest in Vigor and Spirit and Edges just to support cybernetics.

Whereas in the SPC case we can add benefit for no investment - just slap on the points. This isn't so bad at creation since technowarrior get 6 free strain but the Growth Potential edge maybe too cheap since it requires no Vigor or Spirit bumps.

Am I overthinking it?

We will see as someone is building a Wolfen Quotoria which will use a technowarrior built on a strong/tough race. It should feel similar to my Seljuk with 12 points on a strong/tough race.

VV

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:24 pm**

I think it is over thinking. (Of course I think strain is stupid also, but...)

Let's say you make legendary you have a maximum of 22 power points basically 11 strain.

A techno warrior will have from 12 to 24 so not a big deal in the end as each strain is like 2 power points. (d12 Spirit, Vigor bought up, 6 Upgradable, Beyond The Limit)

What differs is the Techno warrior is locked top tech. While the super can do cool magic stuff. So yes a TW gets more, but they are more restricted.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:29 pm**

Yeah, a techno-warrior can also pick up upgrades more easily, buying them with simple credits instead of one system per advance. Both of my cyber characters (Cantrell and Vigil) have picked up something like 2-4 upgrades that way.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:45 am**

So with this package, if you took a race that had PPE/ISP or an Arcane Background, would that still be viable? IE if I made a Fennodi with the Super Soldier MARS Package would they have both AB Psionics and AB Super Powers?

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:46 am**

Nothing about this changes the one AB rule. You might be able to trade it out (for Growth Potential at creation maybe?), but that's about it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:28 am**

Thinking about it, I think changing Super Karma to 2 points won't be too much, but does give an option for a second Major Hindrance and at least an edge's worth of benefit. Thoughts?

Revised Version with 2 Pt Super Karma

Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!

Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.
Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
The Super Karma option adds 2 PP when using this package.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.

Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Copy this if you want to alter it or post elsewhere

Code: Select all

[b][size=150]Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC)[/size][/b] [Background]
[u]Requirements[/u]: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework). 
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge. 

[size=150][b]Super Soldier MARS Package[/b][/size]
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!
[list][*]Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions. 
[*]Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power. 
[*]The Super Karma option adds 2 PP when using this package. 
[*]Starting Gear:  Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.[/list]

[b][size=150]Growth Potential[/size][/b] [Iconic Edge]
[u]Prerequisites[/u]: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:30 am**

I had an idea RE Super Karma. What if we reduce it to only provide 2 Power Points, but rather than taking a Major Hindrance, the character must (or has the option?) to take 2 points of Negative Racial Abilities from TLPG instead? Would be a good way of representing more mutated characters, as there's a lot more physical strangeness in those racial traits than traditional Hindrances.

EDIT: Don't even need to call it Super Karma, to avoid confusion with the IF version. Just say the MARS package gets 12 points, and may get an additional 2 points (or 3, to make 15?) in return for taking a like number of Negative Racial Abilities.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:35 am**

Maybe call it "Mutation" or something?

VV

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:41 am**

So integrating Tribe's option:

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!

Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.
Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
Mutation: For the price of One Major Hindrance, two Minor Hindrances, or two points of negative racial traits (TLPG p. 50), the character may add another 2 to their total available Power Points. This replaces the normal Super Karma option.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.

Copy this updated code if you want to alter it or post elsewhere

Code: Select all

[b][size=150]Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC)[/size][/b] [Background]
[u]Requirements[/u]: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework). 
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.
Characters with this edge can take the hindrances from the Super Powers Companion, and have access to the The Best There Is, Mastery, and Dynamic Duo edges. The bonus for Super Karma varies by source. It is more fully covered in the specific Iconic Framework granting this edge. 

[size=150][b]Super Soldier MARS Package[/b][/size]
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!
[list][*]Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions. 
[*]Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power. 
[*]Mutation: For the price of One Major Hindrance, two Minor Hindrances, or two points of negative racial traits (TLPG p. 50), the character may add another 2 to their total available Power Points.  This replaces the normal Super Karma option. 
[*]Starting Gear:  Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.[/list]

[b][size=150]Growth Potential[/size][/b] [Iconic Edge]
[u]Prerequisites[/u]: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:43 am**

Approved

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:15 am**

Hangouts chatter made me think of another small tweak: Change the "mutation" option so that it's only an option if you're not using another race. That way there's not so much stacking up on negative racial traits. Could be as simple as adding the line at the end of Mutation: "This is only an option if the character's base race is Human."

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:35 am**

Hmm, I could see disallowing races from TLPG or over a certain amount of Negative Racial Points. I mean if you did this on top of a Dwarf or Elf from SWD no one would care. What about?

Mutation: For the price of One Major Hindrance, two Minor Hindrances, or two points of negative racial traits (TLPG p. 50), the character may add another 2 to their total available Power Points. This replaces the normal Super Karma option and the GM may limit it to only races from the core Savage Worlds Deluxe book or other races with no more than 4 points of Negative Racial Abilities.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:38 am**

Yeah, that works.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:05 am**

Approved

On the 3 pp power for ppe pool concern; gm can of course allow it. I meant if it can be insiders as an option in general for either spc if going forward in the event this is approved site wide.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:56 am**

nothing here is approved for anything except that we kinda agree it works

And limited playtesting.

I'm not opposed to putting it up for general site approval, but that PPE option WOULD be voted on separately. And would not be allowed for Supertech Items, IMO.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:49 pm**

Koshnek wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:05 am Approved

On the 3 pp power for ppe pool concern; gm can of course allow it. I meant if it can be insiders as an option in general for either spc if going forward in the event this is approved site wide.

I added this to the other framework as 3 power points gives you 1 ppe for access to toys

But not a lot of chat or feedback on it and Derrick did not go for it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:22 pm**

I did not want to bring it into a test drive. It was hardly mentioned in either IF except by RFT and Tribe. Also, Malcom is super cool and I'm not wasting his PP on that

. Maybe in a few months once he has spent some time in the rifts universe and learned about PPE and how to use it...who knows what could happen?

Also, unofficial approved is still approved. I see nothing that needs changing other than adding "Kohnek may add as much PP to his IF as desired when a player."

Posted: **Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:13 pm**

There are two versions here and VV okay these to go up for a vote.

Which is the current version?

HC Version?

VV Version?

Posted: **Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:45 pm**

I think HC's version of the MARS package plus Growth Potential from VV's write-up, and AB: Super Powers minus the final sentence (which is still being worked out on another poll, I think). So:

Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) [Background]
Requirements: Novice
This Edge replaces the version from Savage Worlds Deluxe. It grants a number of Power Points equal to the Power Level of the Iconic Framework granting the edge (See MARS Package: Super Soldier and the Rifts Super Hero Iconic Framework).
No arcane skill is required. Super powers work “at will” and require no roll unless the specific power says otherwise. Cybernetics are simply not a good option for a Super Powered character, as they interfere too much with his powers. If circumstances force a bionic addition, each point of Strain imposes a −1 penalty to any activation trait test or to the use of a skill with a power (such as shooting with a ranged attack). Cyber-Psychic Alignment can overcome this limitation.

Super Soldier MARS Package
Not every super spy and mercenary operating in Rifts uses magic, cybernetics, psionics, or gear like power armor and robot vehicles. Some are empowered. Perhaps they are the result of a super-secret experiment out of Lone Star, or the result of tampering by Gene-Splicers out of Europe, or the mad results of fiends like the Angel of Death in Poland. Maybe they are just recipients of experimental technology that changes them at a cellular level, or simply a born super-powered being. Whatever the case, it has taken the hero a while to master it, but look out world, cause here they come!

Unlike the Superhero IF, the player may choose any race when creating a Super Soldier MARS Hero. The GM may have campaign based restrictions.
Gain Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC) from the Super Powers Companion. Gain 12 Power Points. No more than 10 Power Points can be spent on any one power.
Mutation: For the price of One Major Hindrance, two Minor Hindrances, or two points of negative racial traits (TLPG p. 50), the character may add another 2 to their total available Power Points. This replaces the normal Super Karma option.
Starting Gear: Begin with the starting gear of any one Iconic Framework of your choosing.

Growth Potential [Iconic Edge]
Prerequisites: Arcane Background (Super Powers - SPC), Novice, MARS
One per rank (one per 20 xp after Legendary), the hero may select the Growth Potential edge adding 2 Power Points.

Posted: **Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:19 pm**

Archiving because we have a final version in house Rules under custom IF.

SavageRifts.com

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Re: MARS Package (Super Powered Asset)

Re: MARS Package (Super Powered Asset)

Re: MARS Package (Super Powered Asset)

Re: MARS Package (Super Powered Asset)

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package

Re: Super Soldier MARS Package