Redoing Patron Items

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High Command
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Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:39 pm

Ground rules (let's decide on this first)

Patron Items are better than basically available items in the book. They are either magical or advanced technology. They combine features not usually found in the game. They are not superior to, nor the equal of, Signature items.

That said, there is an incredible amount of leeway there. Some will be based on superior book items, while others are based on less top tier items.

In general they should have a few features that are not readily available in the book.

Anyone object to these ground rules before we move forward?
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:45 pm

I’d propose that the features be limited to minor upgrade or HJ roll upgrade equivalents and that there be no more than 2 per combat item. Non-combat items can have a bit more leeway.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:49 pm

Pursuit wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:45 pm
I’d propose that the features be limited to minor upgrade or HJ roll upgrade equivalents and that there be no more than 2 per combat item. Non-combat items can have a bit more leeway.
I would like it basically the same but "No more than 1 Minor upgrade or HJ result". If they want extra awesome gear they can EP for it or their GM can play candy-man.
Benny Counter
Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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High Command
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 pm

That works for some and doesn't for others. But we'll get to those specific items when we get to them.

I disagree heartily with only one feature. It should be better than the first thing a TW can put out in his first game session.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:51 pm

Pursuit wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:45 pm
I’d propose that the features be limited to minor upgrade or HJ roll upgrade equivalents and that there be no more than 2 per combat item. Non-combat items can have a bit more leeway.
The issue here is that anyone can do this to any weapon in the book. So how does this meet the goal of an item that falls between stuff in the book and signature items?
Dorn Forgehammer
Bennies 4 of 3

James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
Protection(self only), Teleport, Healing, Speed/Sloth

Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Ndreare
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:00 pm

High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 pm

I disagree heartily with only one feature. It should be better than the first thing a TW can put out in his first game session.
Why should it be better than something that takes 3 edges or a full iconic framework?

No, this is the wrong aproach.

More style = Good
More power = Bad
Benny Counter
Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Ndreare
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:01 pm

Dorn Forgehammer wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:51 pm
Pursuit wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:45 pm
I’d propose that the features be limited to minor upgrade or HJ roll upgrade equivalents and that there be no more than 2 per combat item. Non-combat items can have a bit more leeway.
The issue here is that anyone can do this to any weapon in the book. So how does this meet the goal of an item that falls between stuff in the book and signature items?
Um because it is free stuff you walk out the door with.

That is totally nice, especially now that starting gear has been standardized.
Benny Counter
Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

User avatar
High Command
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:08 pm

RFT wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:00 pm
High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 pm

I disagree heartily with only one feature. It should be better than the first thing a TW can put out in his first game session.
Why should it be better than something that takes 3 edges or a full iconic framework?

No, this is the wrong aproach.

More style = Good
More power = Bad
who says adding a major mod (and nothing else) is always going to be a power play? Keep in mind we'll be building each of these items here.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Pursuit
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:10 pm

Count me in the “style is good” camp. I think patron items should be unique and cool, but not necessarily more powerful than something a non-patron could buy/make.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:15 pm

As long as suddenly there's no point in requesting Patron items for your character because you can do better in game with a modicum of cash. Substance has its own style.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:18 pm

Depends on your definition of “better.” Does a patron weapon need to do more damage than its non-patron equivalent to be worth requesting? I don’t think so.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:37 pm

High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:15 pm
As long as suddenly there's no point in requesting Patron items for your character because you can do better in game with a modicum of cash. Substance has its own style.
Being a patron should not be a path to more power. That is called Pay to Win and only benefits players with six and seven figure incomes.


It should be a way to have easy style and a slight edge. It was agreed before on this reasoning, that is why we as a community made an EP method of acquiring Signature Items. We wanted to avoid the very tone you seem to be advocating. Which for many is a go/no-go for being able to enjoy the sight.


In short: Yes, a player with access to cash and a chance should absolutely be able to buy whatever coolness the Patron item provides.
Benny Counter
Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Dorn Forgehammer
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:23 pm

There seems to be a great deal of wiggle room between book items and Heroic Signature Items. I don't see the need for pocket nukes but stuff anyone can make from using the HJ table does not seem to have much style to me. That's the only discrete example I've seen so far.
Dorn Forgehammer
Bennies 4 of 3

James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
Protection(self only), Teleport, Healing, Speed/Sloth

Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

User avatar
High Command
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:24 pm

Pursuit wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:18 pm
Depends on your definition of “better.” Does a patron weapon need to do more damage than its non-patron equivalent to be worth requesting? I don’t think so.
I never said more damage. Why is more damage the only definition of better? There are edge equivalents such as Brawny that allow you to carry more. There are edge equivalent such as Mr. Fix it ( akey for the patron repair tool). MOAR DAMAGE is not even a consideration.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Pursuit
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:03 pm

High Command wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:24 pm
Pursuit wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:18 pm
Depends on your definition of “better.” Does a patron weapon need to do more damage than its non-patron equivalent to be worth requesting? I don’t think so.
I never said more damage. Why is more damage the only definition of better? There are edge equivalents such as Brawny that allow you to carry more. There are edge equivalent such as Mr. Fix it ( akey for the patron repair tool). MOAR DAMAGE is not even a consideration.
Then we may be in a similar place.

I’m in favor of cool items that fall more or less in line power-wise with what’s available otherwise, especially where combat (attack and damage) numbers are concerned, but that have some kind of coolness factor to them that makes them desirable.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:17 pm

Meh, Patron items used to do it for me. Maybe in some campaigns they will work ok. I do like the intent of making them with unique features not readily available. I am not really even talking about power level. But maybe it is a special data pad that gives you a free reroll when using a hacking skill. Or maybe a super sniper scope that gives you a free reroll using shooting after using the aim maneuver.

Or maybe it is iconic specific... A augmented juicer harness that has +1 burn. Or a technowizard vehicular interface that lets a TW apply their machine maestro to vehicles.

Just some quick examples.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:25 pm

well as done so far (and this is one where we have to work with Lloyd) the items are the same basically across both sites. One of the reasons I need it codified as to a range of powers is to accommodate the top and bottom end of that spectrum - the Patron Coat vs the Altess Eviscerator, for example. But I needed a range to build within. I have that now at least.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Dorn Forgehammer
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:51 am

Like the NG Equalizer. Too bad about sticking to the original list. Kind of wanted to see a NG-11S statted up. I just like that thing. But you did something similar with the Equalizer which is cool.
Dorn Forgehammer
Bennies 4 of 3

James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
Protection(self only), Teleport, Healing, Speed/Sloth

Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
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[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:48 pm

I think the Equalizer you posted (here) is nice, but probably a bit more than what I would expect for a Bronze level item.
  • Making it a combo-weapon (BB pistol + plasma cartridge pistol + shotgun) is at least a Major mod,, to be honest, and is a nice feature that can't be duplicated with TW/Enchanted mods. The penalty to TD is a good addition.
  • Fast Draw holster is just fluff text, as there's no quick draw in SWADE. Probably best to drop to avoid anyone arguing it should have a bonus on Gunslinger draws or something.
  • Steady Shot Aim Assist as written is roughly 2 Major mods/Edges worth of benefit. I'd reduce to something like: "The Shooting penalty from Unstable Platform or Running is reduced by 1." That's like a lesser Steady Hands that's still useful even if you have the full Edge.
  • Laser Targeting: My initial reaction was to remove this, but meh, it's a $150 accessory from SWADE. No biggy.
  • Shiny: Helps offset the added utility of the Laser Targeting.
With the above, I think you end up with something more akin to 1 Major/1 Minor, instead of 3 Major.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:25 pm

I was just about to post looking for feedback.

There is an additional small negative - you can't use speed loaders like you can with most revolvers. Which means reload is at 1 round per action.

Re: Steady Shot Aim Assist - Originally it had the exact language you have, except that it applied Steady hands and I wanted to have it stack. Your solution does that. Included.

Fast Draw Holsters - I missed that Readying two weapons a turn is a free action now. Duly noted.

I added the manufacturer quality call outs as well.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:32 pm

GAW Throwback up for comment

Didn't need to do anything but update for the official BigBore rounds and redo some formatting.
It has adaptive engineering to use Big Bore rounds, but really all that means is it has a MD quality barrel (in the source any MD shotgun can fire Big Bore rounds as they are longer but about the same diameter being based on shotgun rounds to begin with) - basically a Minor. Technically this weapon would have been designed from the start to use them as it likely was part of the same design project (but different location and application) as the Big Bore project in Area 51.
The biggest thing mechanically is 3RB and ROF 3 with a 5 10-round tubes of ammo. But ROF 3 will chew through those quickly. 3RB is the suggested fire rate, but sometimes you need to lay down some fire. - All told about a Major ability.
I also made it Min Str d8, but that is better than Min Str d10 for the comparable Big Bore weapon. (so a Minor)
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:40 pm

Dorn Forgehammer wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:51 am
Like the NG Equalizer. Too bad about sticking to the original list. Kind of wanted to see a NG-11S statted up. I just like that thing. But you did something similar with the Equalizer which is cool.
NG-11S is easy actually, now that we have the Triax Pump Weapons, Big Bore Rounds, etc. It's basically a double barreled sawed off. If I had to eyeball it, I'd call it a double barreled TX-16 with a payload of 2, but that is simply an eyeball, not a full conversion. It can also use Shotgun rounds and since it can use them, it can use Big Bore Rounds.

Patron items are not book items though, even if they have not been converted. They are by definition unique. BTW the Checklist for items is here.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:32 pm

@High Command I noticed a couple typos in the GAW Throwback. In the Big Bore section under Special it mentions Equalizer rather than the Throwback. I assume this was cut and paste from other weapon since it is more or less the same thing.

Under the payload section for shotgun mode it mentions Quick Draw. I believe that is a reference to the SWD edge? Probably just need to indicate whether switching tubes is an action or a free action.

Otherwise, sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.
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James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
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Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:22 pm

Dorn Forgehammer wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:32 pm
@High Command I noticed a couple typos in the GAW Throwback. In the Big Bore section under Special it mentions Equalizer rather than the Throwback. I assume this was cut and paste from other weapon since it is more or less the same thing.

Under the payload section for shotgun mode it mentions Quick Draw. I believe that is a reference to the SWD edge? Probably just need to indicate whether switching tubes is an action or a free action.

Otherwise, sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.
Fixed - thanks!

Alright, moving right along the Dragonbane Blade . Instead of extra damage I went with what will hurt dragons - extra AP. Also made them dragon-slaying champions (+2 damage). Still if you're not built for close combat, you probably don't want to deal with taking a dagger after a dragon. Dropped the damage back to vibroclaw level and kept the AP down. The +1 parry was meant to be a bit of survival help against dragons and pretty much anything else. Also, to help get the characters INTO combat with dragons, I put in the racial hatred for dragons against people with these daggers. Should make for fun interactions with groups with dragons and those using these blades in them.

I would encourage GMs to include the occasional dragon or dragon-like character (Sea Serpents are a good one) for this character to have a good shot at dealing with. Retrapping it for another enemy could be done, but Dragons make for such memorable foes. Think of all the Dragon Juicers!

Also done is the T4-2044 Flexible Armored Suit. I beefed up the radio interference ability, but added in some potential trouble for the characters due to its updated origin for Rifts.
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"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Alright, and here we have the first of the new items. Funny note - named for a character on EU, said Dwarven Rogue Scholar. Rimdall's Hammer

And following up with the ever popular Bag of Holding; more of a pouch really.

And finally the Auracles of Spineas.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:04 pm

I think the Dragonbane Blade is too weak. In most ways, it's worse than a set of off-the-rack vibro-claws, which are Str+2d4, +1 Parry and AP 8 all the time, not just against dragons. Champion vs. dragons is balanced (and probably outweighed) by being attacked by them.

I think the vibro-claws work as a base. So Str+2d4, AP 8, +1 Parry as a base. Giving it a +1 to Fighting and kicking it up to Str+2d6 damage is like adding a built-in Martial Artist Edge to it, so a Major mod. Nixing the requirement that it be used as a pair is probably worth a Minor. Having it double the AP vs. dragons is niche but powerful, so call that a Major, which is offset by gaining Enemy: Dragons as a Major Hindrance.

So, end result, balancing out to 1 Major/1 Minor, would be Str+2d6, AP 8, +1 Parry, +1 Fighting, double AP vs. Dragons but gain the hindrance vs. Dragons you had.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:33 pm

Yeah, I was afraid of pushing it up too high, but I like your reasoning. Net is +1 Major and +1 minor. Changes made

For reference going forward it was Str+ 2d4. AP 4, +1 Parry, and had the same bonus vs dragons and the negative vs dragons


BTW the fan favorite Branaghan Special Overcoat is done. It gets a boost from the actual item, stacks like it does, stacks with brawny for carrying things, and has an additional +1 to toughness. I'm considering adding a bonus vs environmental effects as well. And for my CS folks, I included a full CS version (or for characters with a CS background). Also, I included a boost to the Janissary Armor that could potentially make it useful in Rifts for the right character. Maybe not forever, but perhaps for a bit. Armor wise it's equivalent to one of the starting armors at least.

Also redid the Load Bearing Harness with an updated Rifts Earth backstory.

I'll work on Silver items after these have been reviewed by folks.
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"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:17 am

This is turning into exactly what I mentioned above. Not just a minor or two, but even majors on them all.

I can accept you disagree with my views expressed above. But at the same time I will not be having these in the games I am running while they are so far above what is available to everyone else.

It is Pay to Win at this point a Patron gets
OOC Comments
A Signature items with 3 Major and 3 Minor (basically 2 to 4.5 advances)
A common gear with a couple minors (basically 1 advance)
A awesome gear with a major and a minor (basically 1.5 advance)
So pay to win is essentially giving up 7 advances of stuff or like a million in gear? We have lost players already over this that we know of, who knows how many checked it out and noped out before even chatting?

It did not seem so bad as a single item of note, tied to a character, but on stacking it all up, it is like "Oh yeah, act now and we will through in a Porsche!"
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    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


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Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
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Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:32 am

I am sort of in the camp with Rob. Although I will just use the patron and sig items if character qualify for them as loot drops. Or special rewards for completing important arcs. But a starting character coming out of the gate with them? No probably not.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:15 am

So, looking at the GAW Throwback, I have some notes:
  • The -2 to recoil is an improved version of the Rock and Roll Edge that doesn't require you to stand still.
  • The reduction in minimum strength is cool, and I like it.
  • The tubular magazines and adaptive engineering are neat and add flavor.
  • ROF 3 and 3RB are big steps up over the BB weapons available in EoH. None of those is higher than ROF 2 (for the double-barreled versions).
  • The weapon magazine dwarfs anything else available in the BB series. The highest capacity BB weapon in EoH is 12.
That said, here are my suggestions (with the obvious caveat that I love this item and it has been the primary weapon for one of my favorite characters since the day it dropped):
  • Remove the offset to recoil.
  • Go with either 3RB or ROF 3, but not both. I'd suggest 3RB, but that's an admittedly selfish suggestion because I always pick 3RB over high ROF if it's available.
  • Reduce the magazine size to 30 shells. That puts it more in-line with a modern assault rifle from SWADE.
  • Make switching between tubular magazines an action rather than a free action.
Even with the above changes, I'm still a little worried that this is a fair step better than any Big Bore weapon in the book. I am emotionally invested, though, because I like the darn thing so much for my characters.

Update: In thinking about this further, I think it would make sense to remove 3RB or ROF entirely (which also gets rid of the need to negate a recoil penalty) and make the Throwback a pure semiautomatic. The shot capacity could then come down to around 20 or 25 shells, with no need to support a high rate of fire. That still gives the weapon some cool flavor and bonuses over what's available off the shelf (a double barrel with ROF 1-2 and 12 rounds and a d10 Min Str) without completely overpowering what non-patron Big Bore aficionados can get.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:06 am

Pursuit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:15 am
That said, here are my suggestions (with the obvious caveat that I love this item and it has been the primary weapon for one of my favorite characters since the day it dropped):
  • Remove the offset to recoil.
  • Go with either 3RB or ROF 3, but not both. I'd suggest 3RB, but that's an admittedly selfish suggestion because I always pick 3RB over high ROF if it's available.
  • Reduce the magazine size to 30 shells. That puts it more in-line with a modern assault rifle from SWADE.
  • Make switching between tubular magazines an action rather than a free action.
Even with the above changes, I'm still a little worried that this is a fair step better than any Big Bore weapon in the book. I am emotionally invested, though, because I like the darn thing so much for my characters.

Update: In thinking about this further, I think it would make sense to remove 3RB or ROF entirely (which also gets rid of the need to negate a recoil penalty) and make the Throwback a pure semiautomatic. The shot capacity could then come down to around 20 or 25 shells, with no need to support a high rate of fire. That still gives the weapon some cool flavor and bonuses over what's available off the shelf (a double barrel with ROF 1-2 and 12 rounds and a d10 Min Str) without completely overpowering what non-patron Big Bore aficionados can get.
This is a lot more reasonable.

Lets hope reason will win.
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  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:13 am

I like the Equalizer and the GAW Throwback because of the versatility more than anything else. The Equalizer especially since I was disappointed they didn't put the NE-6 "Magnum" in the EOH book since it is identical to the NE-4 which is in the book except the Magnum is a six shooter

Everything else is a nice bonus won't bother me to see go away. I do think changing ammo feeds should be a free action. If I can draw multiple weapons as free action then thumbing a switch should not be more onerous.
Dorn Forgehammer
Bennies 4 of 3

James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
Protection(self only), Teleport, Healing, Speed/Sloth

Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:26 am

Ndreare wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:06 am
Lets hope reason will win.
Can we please tone back any rhetoric here. I do not care for it. I am not out to wreck the flipping game or anyone's enjoyment of it. Please stop treating me like some enemy of fun or reason.

I am looking at the feedback honestly and with an eye towards balance and concept. Your criticism have been received and noted. Thank you.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:27 am

On the philosophical end of things: Patron items are a thing. They were a thing before the SWADE change and they're a thing now. Blame Lloyd, but it's a reward that is literally advertised as a perk for patronage. I think it's fine to limit them within particular games -- in my upcoming fantasy game, where the existing items are inappropriate, I'm giving patrons a bonus Benny/quarter -- but it is way too late to be bitching that patronage comes with in-game benefits. Not to mention, Sig Items are available to anyone -- Patrons just get 10 bonus EP, more or less.

That said, I think we can and we are reining in the power level on these a bit. The Dragonbane Blade, for example, is no more powerful in terms of damage and AP than a vibro-longsword. It's basically a TW katana with bonus AP vs. Dragons, who will try to eat you. That seems about right, to me.

I think the coat and vest freebies should be barely better than standard equipment. The vest -- basically a wearable IRMSS with +1d for encumbrance -- seems right on. I don't think the overcoat should get any bonus Toughness. Everyone's going to be buying an armored cloak/duster anyway, getting one for free with a minor encumbrance bonus is plenty.

For the GAW: With an appropriate ammo limitation, I don't think ROF 3/3RB is actually that big a step up from ROF 2/Double-Barrel. I'd be fine keeping ROF 3 and the 3RB if:
  • Ammo was dropped back to 3 magazines of 10, as Timmy suggested, and switching magazines is an action
  • The Recoil Compensation is reduced to offsetting just 1 pt of penalty
In that case, ammo capacity limits you to one round of auto-fire or three uses of 3RB before you have to spend an action switching mags.

Alternatively, do as Timmy suggested and make it ROF 1 (a downgrade from Double-Barreled). There's no need for the Recoil Comp in that case, so the only benefits are that it's a combo weapon with expanded ammo capacity (switching magazines should probably be free in that case) and reduced Min. Str. Pretty boring, but still useful to some characters.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:37 am

Base Weapon: Auto Assault-12 (12 gauge) 12/24/48 1-3d6 ROF 3 wt: 12 Shots 8 (20) Min Str d6

Unfortunately these are SWEX stats (from Titan Effect), but it's the best I've got. This is literally the starting point as it is an analogous automatic shotgun.
Adaptive Engineering to use Big Bore rounds: As stated before they are literally designed to work with shotguns. I can provide plenty of non-stat proof from the source on this. Still, a minor equivalent mod.
Double ammo would easily be a minor mod, but I'll drop it to 30. The intention from the Palladium stats was tha it could empty its full load in one round. 30 rounds allows us to do that.
Switching tubes will be a free action - for the reasons James mentioned. It is literally a free action to ready a weapon twice a round. No way am I charging an action to switch tubes. All told - Minor mod.
Add 3rb - minor mod; but I guess it will have to be a Major since we're out of minors.
Out of room for any more. So recoil dampening must go. Shame, considering that is what is supposed to be the one of key feature to the weapon.

so 3rb or recoil dampening for autofire?
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:42 am

I think that Dragonbane should come with the Hindrance Delusion(Major) Hero thinks he can kill a dragon with this thing. :)

As to the GAW I'd rather lose the RoF/3RB than lose the ability to switch ammo as a free action. That's my 2 cents.

As to boring instead of regular shotgun rounds as the second ammo type make them grenades. Range 12/24/48. Grenades special made for the weapon at 50-100% markup. Both modes have RoF 1, 3 tubes, each tube has one ammo type. Free action to switch.
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James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
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Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
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Science d10
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Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
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Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:50 am

I've updated the Throwback again. I took off 3RB. I will not be removing either autofire or the free action switching of tubes. And as it is depending on said recoil dampening as the method of reducing the min strength from d10, I'll keep it intact as well. I did use the suggestion from Tribe to reduce it to remove 1 point of penalty instead of two.

I also reduced the Patron Coat to 2 armor 1 toughness.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:59 am

I think you still need another minor drawback of some sort.

Compared to the Long-Barrel BB, you have:
  • Can use shotgun ammo - Minor
  • Increased Ammo Cap (to 30) - more like Major, but we'll go with Minor
  • Increase ROF from 2 to 3 - Major
  • Lose Double-Barrel - offsets a Minor
  • -1 Recoil, -1d Min Str - Minor (as you could get a straight +1 Shooting for a Minor instead)
BRAIN FLASH: If you want to keep switching mags as a free action, what about making it Reload 3, to account for having to disassemble and replace 3 tubes?
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:02 am

I like the idea of making it Reload 3; that fits and is similar to what Roberson did for some of the energy weapons.

In SWADE, can you fire a high ROF weapon at lower than its maximum ROF? Could you shoot the GAW with ROF 1 if you wanted? I thought I remembered that you could, but I'm not finding it in the book. Little help?

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 am

Only railguns require you to fire at maximum rate of fire as far as I know.
Inserting this for reloading: Using a insertion tube speed loader, reloading a tube is Reload 3. Otherwise each tube must be reloaded one round at a time.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Dorn Forgehammer » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 am

Making it difficult to reload is in line with weapons of this type I've seen in other systems. Reloading a system of this type would not be done quickly which is why you want enough ammo to get through a fight (hopefully.)
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James
Alts: None
Stats
Agility d8 | Smarts d10 | Spirit d8 | Strength d10 | Vigor d10
Pace 5 | Parry 6 | Toughness 18(8)

Frequently used skills
Common Knowledge d8+2
Notice d8
Science d10
Hacking d10+2
Weird Science d10
Repair d10+2
Electronics d10+4
Shooting d8+2
Fighting d8
Research d8
Driving d8+2

Powers
Protection(self only), Teleport, Healing, Speed/Sloth

Edges
AB (Weird Science): +15 power points, 2 starting powers
Gadgeteer: Spend 3 power points to create a device that replicates another power
Mr. Fix It: adds +2 to Repair rolls. With a raise, halve time required to fix something.
Artificer: Allows user to create Arcane Devices.
McGyver improvise a device from common resources when the need arises. Given a few simple items, he can make a Repair roll to craft improvised weapons, explosives, or tools, that last until used or the end of the encounter (GM’s call). This takes one entire turn, and he can’t move or take any other actions while constructing the device.

Hindrances
(Major) Curious: You don’t mind if I take this apart to see how it works do you?
(Minor) Quirk Talks to his vehicle like it’s a person.
(Minor) Habit: Likes to smoke cigars

Code: Select all

[OOC=Notice]
Notice Die [dice]1d6[/dice] 
Wild Die [Dice]1d6[/Dice]
[size=85]Constant Effects: None[/size]
[size=85][color=#8000FF]Temporary Effects: None[/color][/size][/OOC]

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:28 am

Need help here next:
Also done is the T4-2044 Flexible Armored Suit. I beefed up the radio interference ability, but added in some potential trouble for the characters due to its updated origin for Rifts.

Alright, and here we have the first of the new items. Funny note - named for a character on EU, said Dwarven Rogue Scholar. Rimdall's Hammer

And following up with the ever popular Bag of Holding; more of a pouch really.

And finally the Auracles of Spineas.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:03 pm

Tribe and Derrick gave the Flexible armor a good enough. They also gave the Auracles a pass once it was realized that the Magic Optic system was the "base item."

Timmy suggested that the Dampen Electrical Energy feature spell out that it takes an action to activate it. Also replaced incorrect terminology - Medium Blast Template instead of Medium Burst Template. Thank Timmy if that was bugging you :P

Bag of holding got an action make over. For every 4 items after the 1st, it takes additional actions to retrieve items. Derrick thought the jump from 11 to 12 was severe.

On the Equalizer, the ammo mentioned using shotgun rounds, but gave no stats for them. That has been added. Range is the same as the Big Bore rounds.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:13 am

Rimdall's Hammer underwent a major change thanks to Tribe.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:34 am

Was thinking about the Branaghan duster: Rather than have it increase the Min Str by a die type when worn over armor (as all armored coats/cloaks do) and then have a special ability to increase your Str by a die type ... For simplicity, why not just have the special ability be that it does not increase encumbrance or Min. Str. when worn over armor?
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:04 pm

High Command wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:28 am

And following up with the ever popular Bag of Holding; more of a pouch really.
Why not just copy the D-bag from rifts. It works fine, and i already have a player using multiple of them in the 99. They only cost 100,000 and last for several years.


PS: i do not think it needs a special penalty, it is something the Shifter would pick up automatically with his new senses.
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    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
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Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:05 pm

PS: This thread is getting long.

Perhaps each item can be broken into a thread for being worked so we can keep track of it easier?
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  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pender Lumkiss » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:48 pm

Yeah lets do each item separately over a 2 month vetting processes. One at a time.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Pender Lumkiss wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:48 pm
Yeah lets do each item separately over a 2 month vetting processes. One at a time.
YEAH!
Now we are talking.
Benny Counter
Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:24 pm

Tribe of One wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:34 am
Was thinking about the Branaghan duster: Rather than have it increase the Min Str by a die type when worn over armor (as all armored coats/cloaks do) and then have a special ability to increase your Str by a die type ... For simplicity, why not just have the special ability be that it does not increase encumbrance or Min. Str. when worn over armor?
You and your logic are not welcome here....yeah that makes sense. I'll make that change. So Overcoat now has this line instead of the one that basically self defeated itself
  • This protection can stack with other non-MDC body armor (but not MDC armor, they have no effect)without an increase to the Strength Minimum required to wear the base armor, unlike other armored coats and cloaks. It is usually worn over such armor.
I also added some easy retrap options including an undersuit which otherwise acts exactly the same. One power armor pilots might like. It doesn't help them in said power armor (it doesn't stack with MDC armor) but it might give them some options out of power armor other than being in plain clothes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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As for a thread for each item, one already exists. This is for feedback on those items. I don't want to go looking for another, thanks. I'm also tracking changes here as I make them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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And while I will be taking them in batches, two months for each item is ludicrous. As I have just shown, I am perfectly willing to go back and revisit something. As long as you keep the spirit of the item and the advice is sound, I'll generally take it. But as I have already shown, I will buck at the pure rejection of anything without an attempt to fix it. In general it's about a week for each tier of items (maybe less in the higher tiers) and then about the same time for comment and review. I'll start on Silver next week.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ndreare wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:04 pm
Why not just copy the D-bag from rifts. It works fine, and i already have a player using multiple of them in the 99. They only cost 100,000 and last for several years.
PS: i do not think it needs a special penalty, it is something the Shifter would pick up automatically with his new senses.
Simply put - the means to make it do not exist right now in the normal rules, but I do not see that staying that way for long. I expect they will be a thing whenever temporal magic is introduced. I don't want to take away from that right now. While a pouch that can hold a lot is not game breaking, a full on dimensional pocket satchel might, depending on the game. Though, that is a good idea that a GM might include in their game as an option. Any GM but me - though I will have bad guys use them! :D

Also, I'm trying to maintain the item already presented, which is a dimensional bag in a belt pouch, not a shoulder satchel. I also added a way to camouflage it. It ends up being similar to, but the not the same as, the Rift Runner's bag, but using temporal magic, not invisibility. It also doesn't have to be maintained.
I will add the note about Shifters - good catch. Here is the updated Bag. Changes in italics.
Detection and Identification: While the Bag of Holding is quite subtle, it is not truly hidden, merely disguised. Therefore the user is warned not to allow it to come under scrutiny by the magically or psychically active.
• A successful use of Detect Arcana will register it as magic, but will not usually reveal its purpose. A raise will reveal it uses Dimensional and Temporal magic, but not how.
• Using the Exalted Detect Arcana Power Modifier will reveal its function with a raise and that it uses Dimensional and Temporal Magic on a success.
• A Shifter using Detect Arcana will reveal it to be using Dimensional and Temporal magic on a Success and determine its function with a raise.
• Similarly a Shifter using Exalted Detect Arcana will automatically determine its function on a success. On a Raise they can figure out how to activate it.
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Redoing Patron Items - Silver

Post by High Command » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:14 pm

The Talisman has been updated. Aside from a language update to the extra arcane protection and changing the power from Clairvoyance to Object read, I didn't do much to this one. If you think Object Read is too much of a mystery breaker, consider Rob's rule that you need a distinct psychic impression in order to access something. If the "thing" didn't leave a lasting mark on the area (just another Tuesday), then instead show the user something of their own Destiny (perhaps a clue to get them looking elsewhere).

The Nano Hive is done, and it is a lot closer to the concept than it was before. I also included a possible bio-wizard implant that could be a cool (if creepy) retrapping of it.

The Empress has been updated. I gave it the power of the IP-7, but payload, range, and ROF are much less. It still has Heavy Burst. I replaced the EMP effect to something using fatigue. Note Vehicles and Robot Vehicles would be affected like inanimate objects. I could have used Vehicle fatigue, but that seems overly punitive, considering how much it costs to repair.

The Stealth Suit is also done. Base item is the NE-C20, with the addition of the Invisibility Power trapped only for technological eyes.
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"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm

Nice,
I think I have character wearing that Talisman.
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Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
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Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:52 pm

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Koshnek » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:14 pm

On the Talisman og Marduk, Battle Hardened from SR 1.0 should be changed to Iron Jaw from SWADE. Probably. +4 to soak by stacking them would be fun, or +6 with Elan on a reroll ;).

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:24 pm

Good point, changed
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 am

So I made a small change to the Stealth armor; one I added Electronics as a skill to activate the Cloak.

Second, I am considering adding that it can be concealed under loose clothes, but neither it's stealth bonus or Cloak function while covered. But it's good for infiltrating a site where a black body suit might drawm more attention than you'd like.

Here's the text:
• This suit was customized for concealment, and can be worn under loose clothing without attracting attention. Detecting the armor requires a Notice roll at –2. Neither the fiber-optic stealth field nor the Cloak will function while covered.
Tales of the 17th SOG
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:24 am

High Command wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:29 am
So I made a small change to the Stealth armor; one I added Electronics as a skill to activate the Cloak.

Second, I am considering adding that it can be concealed under loose clothes, but neither it's stealth bonus or Cloak function while covered. But it's good for infiltrating a site where a black body suit might drawm more attention than you'd like.

Here's the text:
• This suit was customized for concealment, and can be worn under loose clothing without attracting attention. Detecting the armor requires a Notice roll at –2. Neither the fiber-optic stealth field nor the Cloak will function while covered.
Change approved!

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 am

Okay, the GM thread is getting overwhelmed.

On the matter of concealment being added. I am 100% opposed to it.

This gear should be nice, but it should not be the trump instant best gear. This thing is freakin medium armor with +2 toughness and +6 armor, turns invisible, and has other features. It is basically upgraded Naruni armor.

Concealment is not OP on its own, but I hate the constant push for one more thing. There is a reason we are not playing old Rifts. What is the cost of this armor or any of this gear?

Normal relative gear with a mod slot or two is great. But unrestrained extra toys for the snowflake items gets frustrating as a GM. It is like the Atlantean builds that basically are better at every-thing.

Note: As a player I already have this armor on two characters.

Medium Armor <Check>
  • Minor Lower Str Min to Exceptionally Low Str Min <Check>
    Minor Stealth Bonus +1 <Check>
    Minor Stealth Bonus +1 <Check>
    Major Upgrade Invisibility <Check>
    Major Upgrade 10 Power Points <Check>
Not good enough, we need just one more thing...
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  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am

Maybe drop the MOH. A player can always buy that and have it installed by RAW if they want it. I didn’t notice that on my last look.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:36 am

The base item IS the naruni camo armor. I feel no need to break down anything on a book item. Period. I reject that argument entirely.

As for MOH, it's consistent with what it had before, now it simply is a single entry. It had all of the aspects of MOH before.
Edit: I should note I simply found the closest existing book armor and used that. In this case it was the N-C20. I did not change its armor or toughness.

The Invisibility is trapped so it's useless against normal or magical sight. It only works against technological eyes. This is consistent with the PR Cloaking Super power. Invisibility that is useless against normal sight is a pretty significant limitation. I feel that the concealment aspect would bring that back up to a full power. But as I have yet to add it, I am obviously amenable to leaving it off.

Also, it's Minor Upgrade, +5 PPE, twice, Major Upgrade, Invisibility. The stealth bonus is literally a part of the base item.

Base item:
NE-C20 CAMOUFLAGE VARIABLE EBA
Covered in a fiber-optic material, this suit of lightweight Naruni combat armor color shifts to match the surrounding area with custom camouflage patterns, and masks infrared, thermal, and other emissions. Wearers gain a +2 bonus to Stealth. Provides +6 Armor, +2 Toughness, with a Min Str of d4 (13 lb, Rarity −5 Restricted, 100,000 credits).

If I were putting a price tag on the item, it'd be 130,000; maybe 135,000 if it has the concealment aspect (it's not more than a minor because it limits use of camo or cloak), and doesn't allow any additional armor, except say a Armored Coat or Cloak (which would still not allow either stealth/Cloak to work)
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:07 am

Except that the cost of the concealment feature would essentially double the cost of the item, per the text above the HJ roll.

Whether it had the MOH or not before, that would be an easy thing to drop to adjust the power curve, and it’s something that interested players could still add later if they missed it.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:16 am

When you take the most powerful armor in the book and use it as a base item to add your mods to. That is the problem, THAT IS THE SOURCE OF POWER CREEP
(Rarity −5 Restricted, 100,000 credits)

Each minor upgrade should double the price from there. "EACH" if it was allowed and then it would be with the caveat that of the two mods allowed X are used up.
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  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Freemage » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:34 am

Ndreare wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 am
Okay, the GM thread is getting overwhelmed.

On the matter of concealment being added. I am 100% opposed to it.

This gear should be nice, but it should not be the trump instant best gear. This thing is freakin medium armor with +2 toughness and +6 armor, turns invisible, and has other features. It is basically upgraded Naruni armor.

Concealment is not OP on its own, but I hate the constant push for one more thing. There is a reason we are not playing old Rifts. What is the cost of this armor or any of this gear?

Normal relative gear with a mod slot or two is great. But unrestrained extra toys for the snowflake items gets frustrating as a GM. It is like the Atlantean builds that basically are better at every-thing.

Note: As a player I already have this armor on two characters.

Medium Armor <Check>
  • Minor Lower Str Min to Exceptionally Low Str Min <Check>
    Minor Stealth Bonus +1 <Check>
    Minor Stealth Bonus +1 <Check>
    Major Upgrade Invisibility <Check>
    Major Upgrade 10 Power Points <Check>
Not good enough, we need just one more thing...
Counter-argument: A Weird Scientist PC with Major Item Creation and the proper HJ rolls could take a suit of Naruni armor, add two HJ table results to it (say, Concealable and Camo-Mode), then apply all the upgrades listed above, by RAW. So the proposal to include a single HJ result isn't 'instant best gear'--it's not even 'the best a PC could make themselves'--the PC-built (or, arguably, PC-commissioned) armor available actually has a higher Stealth bonus (or, alternately, can use the Minor Stealth Upgrades to do something else entirely). Oh, and the armor wouldn't need the "switchable' aspect that was introduced here.

Hell, if the character can use TW gear, they could stack an additional Minor and Major Upgrade onto it, as well.

I get what you're saying about Patron gear not being literally better than anyone could get in-game; that's a reasonable restriction, because we don't want the site to become pay-to-play. But I'm frustrated by the constant instance that HJ table results represent something alien and foreign to the system that will completely unbalance the cart if they're included.

I'll be honest--one reason I haven't looked twice at most of the Patron armors is the fact that they seem designed for stealth/infiltration, but can't be made concealable (because we've ruled that Patron items can't be further modified). That feature is simply too useful for someone who wants to be able to do infiltration and other subtle missions; since it can't be acquired, I default to from-the-book armors with the HJ table result, instead, and then (if the opportunity arises) get them upgraded.

I will note one other thing--the HJ table item means that if the character suffers a Technical Difficulty, the cost of any repairs while in the field is literally doubled.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am

Is it a powerful base book thing available to literally anyone with a 1 on the Body Armor table? Absolutely. But minor upgrades do not double price. Read TW again, pricing works the same as that. It adds 5K per minor and powers are 20K. Sure, if we use conceament HJ, and that would double the price. That does not bother me, taken as it is. A starting character can have a suit of NC-20 that is able to be concealed, has 8 Armor and 3 Toughness if they care to as a Signature Item. I don't see how a third of Invisibility's utility is overpowering with concealment

btw adjusted price with concealment is 230,000. The creation rules do not double price for adding minor enhancements.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:06 pm

Thing to remember here folks, I am converting Palladium Gear and not all of it is starting level gear. Some of it is top tier. But I am trying to put in common sense restrictions too.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:11 pm

Body armor table results. The heading specifically says it doubles the price.

@Freemage two points of reference:
  1. you missed that I was trolling High Command and was not really as invested as my posts here implied.
  2. there are no actual rules for this adding those to armor as a PC, just paying to have them added then doubling the cost and adding a -4 to availability when doing so! So by RAW it is a magical power only a NPC could ever do. When mentioned that they could potentially stack with TW upgrades (WS cannot upgrade by RAW) Roberson gave the time honored 'I expect GMs to watch for that' and 'the rules are not in a vacuum'.
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Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Freemage » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:27 pm

Okay, so I'm going to do a Best There Is version of this base armor, designed to achieve the same results.

NE-C20 CAMOUFLAGE VARIABLE EBA, Enchanted
Covered in a fiber-optic material, this suit of lightweight Naruni combat armor
color shifts to match the surrounding area with custom camouflage patterns,
and masks infrared, thermal, and other emissions. Wearers gain a +2 bonus to
Stealth. Provides +6 Armor, +2 Toughness, with a Min Str of d4 (13 lb, Rarity −5
Restricted, 100,000 credits).
HJ Upgrade: Concealable, -2 to Notice checks to spot when worn under clothing.
HJ Upgrade: Camo-Mode, +2 to Stealth Checks
Minor Upgrade: +1 Stealth
Minor Upgrade: +1 Stealth
Major Upgrade: Invisibility Power (no limits)
Major Upgrade: 10 PPE storage

So we've got armor that gives a +6 to stealth, invisibility without restriction, is +6A/+2T, MinStr d4, and costs 600,000 Credits. If you're going to complain about something being "the best there is", this is the measure for it. (Note that best-there-is TW gear would be considerably cheaper, and have even more slots--say, Mega-Modifier for Invisibility and an additional 5 PPE storage).

Edit to add: The above could have an optional Armored Cloak that in no way interferes with its functions, and grants +8A/+2T, and bestows the Thief and Assassin Edges, for a mere 136,400 Credits more.
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Hexx, Rising Stars SPC
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:41 pm

Trolling aside as I pointed out above a PC cannot add the body armor results to gear by raw.

But as the body armor table restricts adding the same bonus more than once, the enchantment tables limit you to +2, and the naruni is the same as the body armor table, you are effectively stacking the same bonus from three sources. That would be a big heck no even when presented seriously just like stacking optics bonuses from multiple optics sources.


PS: I would likewise apply the -4 Naruni sabotage and anti tamper modifier to efforts to upgrade this particular armor. But that would just be my GM fiat.
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Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:54 pm

If it's based on the Naruni armor, it does make sense that the modifiers from Empires for Naruni tech would apply. I believe we applied the modifiers for some of the other patron items based on their manufacturers, too.

I'm still hung up on the MOH thing. It's not the end of the world, but I would still drop it and let folks add it later if they wanted to. That shaves a decent chunk of credits off the price while still giving you a very cool suit of armor.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Freemage » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:54 pm

Ndreare wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:41 pm
Trolling aside as I pointed out above a PC cannot add the body armor results to gear by raw.

But as the body armor table restricts adding the same bonus more than once, the enchantment tables limit you to +2, and the naruni is the same as the body armor table, you are effectively stacking the same bonus from three sources. That would be a big heck no even when presented seriously just like stacking optics bonuses from multiple optics sources.


PS: I would likewise apply the -4 Naruni sabotage and anti tamper modifier to efforts to upgrade this particular armor. But that would just be my GM fiat.
But a PC CAN get the HJ results on their starting gear and have it further modded by a TW. They can also acquire HJ modded gear by purchasing it (hence the bit in the table header about how it affects availability).

The upgrade tables limit you to +2 from that source, but if an item already grants a bonus, those bonuses stack. (I can put +2 Parry onto a pair of Vibro-Vambraces, for instance, as two Minor Mods.)

I accept that the HJ Camo-Mode is the same as the Naruni baseline benefit, though, so the cap comes in at +4 rather than +2. But by RAW the Naruni suit could still have two HJ mods, so let's give it... hm, take your pick--+2" Pace w/Jumping, or +1 Toughness.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:01 pm

Pursuit wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am
Maybe drop the MOH. A player can always buy that and have it installed by RAW if they want it. I didn’t notice that on my last look.
I also agree that the Multi-Optics Helmet should just be something you can buy.

It is like a whole second free item.
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Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:23 pm

For the record, I understand that something similar to the MOH was included in the pre-SWADE version of this armor, but SWADE changed the power curve and removed a lot of the optical enhancements that came in a lot of suits.

SWADE also gave a way for players to easily add an MOH to their armor outside of HJ or TW upgrades by just purchasing one and paying a fee to have it installed into any suit of EBA. No muss, no fuss. It's a separate item of its own, and it's easy enough to take off in order to balance the addition of the (very cool) concealment HJ result.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:51 pm

As for the Naruni aspect, read the background. It's already been successfully reverse engineered. These are either CS, Triax, or NG items. All have the plans and a few prototypes. it's just not viable for mass production. Too expensive and finicky.

MOH is removed, and concealment is not going to be added. I am sick of arguing that something relevant to the item should be added.

If someone wants to try and price out the items thus far so we have a cost for repairing them, I'm okay with it. Personally i'd just have all Patron items require a mini-quest to be repaired. Repairing them is not common knowledge, and they don't always want money.
SWADE also gave a way for players to easily add an MOH to their armor outside of HJ or TW upgrades by just purchasing one and paying a fee to have it installed into any suit of EBA. No muss, no fuss. It's a separate item of its own, and it's easy enough to take off in order to balance the addition of the (very cool) concealment HJ result.
Except those options LITERALLY are not available to Patron items in any way, shape or form. You cannot modify them, period. if it's not added here, it's never going to be added.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:02 pm

good or no

ATEA-50 Supai Stealth EBA (Patron Item) (SWADE)
Image
Northern Gun, Triax, and the Coalition may all disparage Naruni, but never let it be said they are above a little repurposing and backwards engineering. Based on captured NE-C20, this medium armor practically makes its wearer invisible. The issue is that the armor proved cost inefficient and was shelved with only a small batch of prototypes being produced as a joint effort. All three nations have the plans and a few prototypes.
• +6 Armor and +2 Toughness
• Low Light Vision and EBA Armor
• The armor grants a +2 bonus to stealth in any setting due to a computer controlled fiber-optic covering, and padded boots and joints.
• Experimental Cloaking Technology powered by an experimental self charging battery.
• • Functional equivalent of the Invisibility power, activated using the Electronics skill, but it is only effective against any technological sensor (including cybernetics, body armor optics, power armor, vehicle, and robot sensors).
• •The battery holds the equivalent of 10 PP, and recharges at a rate of 1 PP per hour. If plugged into a major energy source (generator, city power grid, etc) it can recharge 5 PP per hour instead, but must remain immobile.
• Minimum Strength: d4 (13 lbs.)
Notes: Technology Base is one of Coalition, Northern Gun, or Triax (pick). This determines how you got it. Cost for Repair Purposes: 130,000
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:31 pm

I liked the concealment modification. I now have a sad.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 pm

I did too, but again, not worth arguing the point.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:38 pm

I disagree. :) I was advocating dropping the MOH in exchange for the concealment, not dropping the MOH just because of my orneriness.

I would like the concealment option, please.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Convince Rob, not me. It'll increase the base cost by 100,000 and add the HJ Concealment option.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:57 pm

For consideration; on this I simplified it a LOT.
It's a WI-GL4 with Havoc, the Greater Havoc Modifier, and 3 trappings (1 is free). About the only thing special is you can enchant them as you shoot them.

Also, see these:
Gravity Wave Maul Aside from basing it around the Impact maul, not much changed here.
KLS Triarius Heavy EBA - mostly formatting changes. this was designed in space (on the moon), MOH is a feature, not an artifact.
Universal Energy to Matter Converter - didn't change much aside from formatting

Shockwave TW Grenade Launcher (Patron Item) (SWADE)
Image
Designed by the Armstrong Bennett Technowizardry Armaments shop in MercTown, Debbie Armstrong-Bennet has managed to put stylistic panache and magic mastery into these exclusive weapons. It can function as a normal rifle grenade launcher, firing normal rifle grenades, but the main draw are the magical shockwave enchantments it can imbue upon the munitions--a feature no other TW manufacturer has been able to replicate.
• Range: 18/36/72
• Damage: Per grenade or by Enchantment
• • Any normal Grenade
• • Firestorm Shockwave Grenade (4 PPE): Apply the Fire Trapping to the enchanted grenade. They are also affected by the Havoc Power, with the Greater Havoc Mega Modifier
• • Blizzard Shockwave Grenade (4 PPE): Apply the Cold Trapping to the enchanted grenade. They are also affected by the Havoc Power, with the Greater Havoc Mega Modifier
• • Thunderstorm Shockwave Grenade (4 PPE): Apply the Cold Trapping to the enchanted grenade. They are also affected by the Havoc Power, with the Greater Havoc Mega Modifier
• RoF: 1
• Shots: 24; the specific TW grenades must be powered as they are shot.
• Notes: Min Str d6 (15 lbs), Reload 2, Two Hands.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Snake Eyes » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:00 pm

I vote adding back in the concealment option. For real. Of all the things that could tip the scale towards power creep, a probably-never-gonna-be-used concealment option that basically deactivates the primary purpose of the armor (invisibility / stealth) isn't the tipping point.
The MOH thing isn't something that should be able to be added later because you'd have to add a helmet that is concealable AND cloaks along with the suit.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:16 pm

Also - HELP! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AjR ... sp=sharing
Comments from Tribe: I'd keep it simple with the wolf: Dire Wolf base, + Light Cavalry Barding, improved bite equivalent to a vibro-sword, and +2d Str. Maybe add Construct on their to account for the immunity.

Any ideas on this are welcome.

Also, here's one of the other new ones: For the record, I am TRYING not to overpower this, but rerolling and rerolling a crit fail is literally a power of the original. Please be respectful in how you respond on this one, PLEASE.

Joyse's Magic Die (Patron Item)
Image
An ancient-looking one inch square die depicting water fowl and a number of pips on each facing.
Unique Enchanted Item
Indestructible
Magic Features
• The owner can call upon the power of the die and roll it, gaining one of the following benefits (each may be used only once per session). Afterwards it reappears in his hand.
• • Add +2 to any Trait or damage roll (this ability can be selected after the initial roll is made)
• • Grant a Benny to the player.
• • Allow the player to spend Benny to re-roll a Critical Failure. They also suffer the Dumb Luck setting rule (SWADE 138).
• Curse: The owner gradually becomes more reliant on luck, and may develop a gambling problem.
• History: This die enters the historical record in the possession of an inscrutable figure known only as the "Dark Lord of the game table" in the Western Empire at the height of that Empire's decadence who amassed a fortune in the salons of the elite and came to a predictably bad end in the taverns of the lowly.


Changelog: (Powers originally were:
• Three times per session, the owner can call upon the power of the die and roll it. Afterwards it reappears in his hand. It can do one of the following:
• • Grant a reroll to a Trait or any roll that a benny can be spent on.
• • Grant a Benny to the player.
• • Allow the player to spend Conviction to reroll a Critical Failure. They do not get the +1d6 on the new roll. )
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Freemage » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:31 pm

For the armor, I'd like to see an actual vote on the concealability issue.

For the die, did you look at the Dumb Luck setting rule? It allows you to spend a Benny to reroll a critfail, BUT you suffer the negative consequences of the critfail in addition to the final roll result. So for instance, you could critfail with a weapon and both hit and suffer tech difficulty, or with a spell and both have it go off and suffer backlash.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:37 pm

Seconded on both of @Freemage’s comments. I’d love to see a poll, and I also think dumb luck could be a cool feature of the die.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:39 pm

Dumb Luck updated; As for the poll, start one.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:55 pm

I don't have any major problems with the Stealth armor, and making it concealable is fine (MOH seems like a step over the line, though). However -- it needs a drawback that neither the Stealth bonus nor the invisibility function if anything is worn over the armor. No stacking an armored coat on top and then still going invisible. You can wear it concealed under a coat, but will need to remove that before ghosting.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:00 pm

Although, one thing I'm noticing is that the power level is kind of all over the place -- from as-good-as-or-better than Signature Items to ... boots that prevent you from being tracked. I know Patrick's working within the confines of what Lloyd provided as the Palladium equivalents. But with the Bronze items, we kind of had a baseline of keeping things equivalent to top-line gear accessible to starting characters, plus a mod or two. Things like the stealth armor feel roughly Sig Item level, which makes me I worry about subsequent tiers -- I don't want to be pushing the envelope that much, as it feels like crossing over fully into pay-to-win.

Eh, having read everything it's all more or less where I think it ought to be. The Stealth armor and the Ion pistol are both pretty top-tier for Silver, but something has to be. The boots ... I don't see anyone ever taking, but that's fine.

On the clockwork wolf: Just start it with SWADE Dire Wolf stats, kick the Str up to 1d12, the equivalent of Light Cavalry Barding (from EoH: +6 Armor, +1 Toughness) and a bite like a vibrosword (Str+1d8, AP 8). Specify that, due to its quasi-mechanical nature, it can't gain advances or be improved with Beast Master.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 pm

High Command wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:16 pm
Joyse's Magic Die (Patron Item)
Image
An ancient-looking one inch square die depicting water fowl and a number of pips on each facing.
Unique Enchanted Item
Indestructible
Magic Features
• Three times per session, the owner can call upon the power of the die and roll it. Afterwards it reappears in his hand. It can do one of the following:
• • Grant a reroll to a Trait or any roll that a benny can be spent on.
• • Grant a Benny to the player.
• • Allow the player to spend Benny to reroll a Critical Failure. They also suffer the Dumb Luck setting rule (SWADE 138).
• Curse: The owner gradually becomes more reliant on luck, and may develop a gambling problem.
• History: This die enters the historical record in the possession of an inscrutable figure known only as the "Dark Lord of the game table" in the Western Empire at the height of that Empire's decadence who amassed a fortune in the salons of the elite and came to a predictably bad end in the taverns of the lowly.


Changelog: (Third power changed from this: • • Allow the player to spend Conviction to reroll a Critical Failure. They do not get the +1d6 on the new roll. )
I like the tweaks so far, but an extra three Bennies (potentially) still feels over the line. I'd hew closer to the PR version like this:

Magic Features
• The owner can call upon the power of the die and roll it, gaining one of the following benefits (each may be used only once per session). Afterwards it reappears in his hand.
• • Add +2 to any Trait or damage roll (this ability can be selected after the initial roll is made)
• • Grant a Benny to the player.
• • Allow the player to spend Benny to reroll a Critical Failure. They also suffer the Dumb Luck setting rule (SWADE 138). Using this power causes the die to become intert for the rest of the session.
GM Bennies: 0/8

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:47 pm

I'm okay with that, but +2 seems...strong. I'd kinda prefer the reroll, but I'm willing to be convinced. I was trying to give a bit more options, but you're right on the one of each.

Post updated above - changelog shows what was there originally

Here is the suggested changes to the Stealth Armor; I need a yay or nay. As posted above is what is currently in the thread
Stealth Armor with Concealment
ATEA-50 Supai Stealth EBA (Patron Item) (SWADE)
Image
Northern Gun, Triax, and the Coalition may all disparage Naruni, but never let it be said they are above a little repurposing and backwards engineering. Based on captured NE-C20, this medium armor practically makes its wearer invisible. The issue is that the armor proved cost inefficient and was shelved with only a small batch of prototypes being produced as a joint effort. All three nations have the plans and a few prototypes.
• +6 Armor and +2 Toughness
• Low Light Vision and EBA Armor
• The armor grants a +2 bonus to stealth in any setting due to a computer controlled fiber-optic covering, and padded boots and joints.
• This suit is customized for concealment, and can be worn under loose clothing without attracting attention. Detecting the armor requires a Notice roll at –2. Note that if anything is covering the armor (loose clothes, coats, cloaks, ponchos, etc), neither the Cloaking technology nor fiber optics work correctly.
• Experimental Cloaking Technology powered by an experimental self charging battery.
• • Functional equivalent of the Invisibility power, activated using the Electronics skill, but it is only effective against any technological sensor (including cybernetics, body armor optics, power armor, vehicle, and robot sensors).
• •The battery holds the equivalent of 10 PP, and recharges at a rate of 1 PP per hour. If plugged into a major energy source (generator, city power grid, etc) it can recharge 5 PP per hour instead, but must remain immobile.
• Minimum Strength: d4 (13 lbs.)
Notes: Technology Base is one of Coalition, Northern Gun, or Triax (pick). This determines how you got it. Cost for Repair Purposes: 230,000
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Pursuit » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:33 am

I say yay on ye olde stealth armor as updated in the ooc tag above.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:34 am

I prefer tribes version of the dice.

3 extra bennies per session raised all my red flags.

I know this is like 3, but the changes make it less overt.

I would also like a poll on MOH and Concealment on the armor.
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Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:37 am

High Command wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:47 pm
I'm okay with that, but +2 seems...strong. I'd kinda prefer the reroll, but I'm willing to be convinced. I was trying to give a bit more options, but you're right on the one of each.

Post updated above - changelog shows what was there originally

Here is the suggested changes to the Stealth Armor; I need a yay or nay. As posted above is what is currently in the thread
Stealth Armor with Concealment
ATEA-50 Supai Stealth EBA (Patron Item) (SWADE)
Image
Northern Gun, Triax, and the Coalition may all disparage Naruni, but never let it be said they are above a little repurposing and backwards engineering. Based on captured NE-C20, this medium armor practically makes its wearer invisible. The issue is that the armor proved cost inefficient and was shelved with only a small batch of prototypes being produced as a joint effort. All three nations have the plans and a few prototypes.
• +6 Armor and +2 Toughness
• Low Light Vision and EBA Armor
• The armor grants a +2 bonus to stealth in any setting due to a computer controlled fiber-optic covering, and padded boots and joints.
• This suit is customized for concealment, and can be worn under loose clothing without attracting attention. Detecting the armor requires a Notice roll at –2. Note that if anything is covering the armor (loose clothes, coats, cloaks, ponchos, etc), neither the Cloaking technology nor fiber optics work correctly.
• Experimental Cloaking Technology powered by an experimental self charging battery.
• • Functional equivalent of the Invisibility power, activated using the Electronics skill, but it is only effective against any technological sensor (including cybernetics, body armor optics, power armor, vehicle, and robot sensors).
• •The battery holds the equivalent of 10 PP, and recharges at a rate of 1 PP per hour. If plugged into a major energy source (generator, city power grid, etc) it can recharge 5 PP per hour instead, but must remain immobile.
• Minimum Strength: d4 (13 lbs.)
Notes: Technology Base is one of Coalition, Northern Gun, or Triax (pick). This determines how you got it. Cost for Repair Purposes: 230,000

I would approve this armor.
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Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Rob Towell

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:40 am

High Command wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:16 pm
Also - HELP! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AjR ... sp=sharing
Comments from Tribe: I'd keep it simple with the wolf: Dire Wolf base, + Light Cavalry Barding, improved bite equivalent to a vibro-sword, and +2d Str. Maybe add Construct on their to account for the immunity.
The automaton seems fine. But repair rules are needed. According to the AI guidelines I would suggest lower of Occult or Arcane skill.
I would not suggest a penalty as they are mad produced and not unique.
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Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:01 am

I'm good with the stealth armor as presented above.

On the die: reducing the +2 option to +1 would be fine, I think. Just gives you the ability to nudge something to Success or a raise once a session.

Gold catch on repair. Rob's suggestion works, and/or give it free healing rolls while on a ley line.
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Stealth Armor has been changed to reflect the way I updated in the OOC tag a few posts up. Unless folks think its too much, I'll leave it at +2 for the first option. It's powerful, but it's also once a session. That's not that bad. And there are definite contenders to make it not the first choice; it is a strong one though. But that's okay.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:07 pm

First draft of the Clockwork Wolf

Does Beast Master affect it, if so, how? Does Beast Bond work for it? Do Leadership Edges work for it instead?

Clockwork Wolf (Patron Item)
Image
Unique Magical Construct
Disposition: akin to that of a highly loyal canine companion; affectionate, playful, protective, and somewhat obedient. It is smart, however, and will act according to what it thinks is the best course of action.
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d6 (A), Spirit d6, Strength d12, Vigor d8
Skills: Athletics d8, Fighting d8, Intimidation d8, Notice d6, Stealth d8
Pace: 10; Parry: 6; Toughness: 13 (6)
Edges: Alertness (Magical Sensors)
Special Abilities:
Bite: Str+d10, AP 10, Mega-Damage.
Clockwork Hide: Provide +6 Armor and +1 Toughness
Construct: +2 to recover from being Shaken; ignores 1 point of Wound penalties; does not breathe or suffer from disease or poison. It does not heal, but is repaired with the lower of Arcana, Occult, and Repair.
Fearless: Clockwork Wolves are immune to Fear and Intimidation, but they are smart enough to react to fear-causing situations aptly.
No Speech: The Clockwork Wolf understands humanoid speech, but they cannot speak.
Speed: d10 running die.

History: Shifters and Xenobiologists alike have cataloged these curious extra-dimensional mechanical constructs across the megaverse from obscure pocket dimensions to the the sprawl of the Three Galaxies. Their origins are a completely mystery, but master Dwarven techno-wizards of the UWW take credit for these seemingly living works of extraordinary craftsmanship and artistic skill. While incredibly rare to find, the behavior of these automatons is universally identical and they are the finest and most loyal of any possible companion.


After this is the Ruby Items.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:32 pm

If it does benefit from Beast Master, I'd say its benefits should be programmed in
Beast Master provides the following upgrades, in this order:
+1 DT to Vigor, +1 DT to Spirit, +1 DT to Fighting, +1 DT to Intimidation, +1 DT to Stealth, +1 DT to Athletics, +1 DT to Vigor, +1 DT to Spirit, +1 DT to Fighting, +1 DT to Intimidation, +1 DT to Stealth, +1 DT to Athletics,
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Ndreare » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:31 am

Maybe only an arcane character could 'beast master' one of them? The upgrades would be the result of tinkering on them.

Note, this should not be tagged with the 'unique' descriptor. The description just does not fit, nor the lore. Automaton animals are as common as can be. We are already making them IRL, I imagine by this time a TW would make one as soon as he sees a robot dog from Atlantis or Archie.


PS: I would totally want to see if some of my GMs would let me trade Patron items now that this is a thing.
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Phase World - The Remorseless Game Master Bennies 5; Mission: Get Revenge on Durrack
  • +6 Players
    +1 Sidekicks (Not counting Rust Bucket who is temporary out of play)
    -2 Benny for Special Ritual & Extra Effect
    +2 Jokers in turn 1 of Big Battle
    +1 Joker again
    -1 reroll not to fly away
    -1 Reroll to hit Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 Reroll to damage Sa'Maku in vengeance
    -1 New Card for Debrek to go before Thissok


The 99's Game Master Bennies 1, Mission: Investigate Corruption at Refuge Demon Prince of Corruption
Wounds: 5/8 (sorry was failing to update, until I just noticed while working on Nightbane)
Bennies: 0
Parry 11*[15 deflection] Toughness 39 (20) [45 (20) Protection]
Currently Active: Arcane Protection +4, Arcane Resistance +/-4, Greater deflection -4, Protection +6, Speed (Greater Quickness).

Nightbane Game Master Bennies 8, Murder a man at his place of business]

Init Copy and Paste

Code: Select all

[b][color=#BF0000]Initiative without rerolls.
I will roll 1d56 for each of your initiative cards. I do not reroll duplicates, instead there are 2 extra Joker positions.
[list][*][b]Quick rerolls 16 or less[/b]
[*][b]Quickness with a Raise rerolls 24 or less (SWD only)[/b]
[*]53, 54, 55, 56 are considered Jokers
[*]Cards divisible by 4 are considered Clubs for hindrances affected by Clubs (excepting 56 which is a joker).[/list][/color][/b]

Dynamic Backlash Table
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!
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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by High Command » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:02 pm

I updated the entry with their history.

As for Beast Master, I was thinking maybe it was designed to grow as it as it bonds with its user (via the edges). As all things, it can't be tinkered with (I know you didn't mean that way). That way anyone can have it, not just arcane characters.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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KLS Manpack Railgun

Post by High Command » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:17 pm

Alright, let's see your feedback here:
My reasoning on the revision: Force Cannon (A&M); Railgun instead of Force cannon, tech instead of tw; Multi-Optic Scope, Increased Reload Time, Weight Reduction by a step
Increases Damage per die, but decreases AP (was 3d10+5, AP 15); I'm not convinced both shouldn't be higher, but I figure I'll let others push them up or not. The Force Cannon is a good stand in. I also reduced the range to the same as the mini-railgun and Force Cannon. It's stupidly long range enough as to not be an issue if it can't go 500".
Current: https://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=2352

KLS-RG-15X Manpack Electromagnetic Rail Gun (Patron Item) (SWADE)
Image
The brain child of the KLS corporation, this rail gun design is a miniaturized version of the RG-14 Electromagnetic Mass Driver. It's flexibility, efficiency, and relatively light weight make it the most potent man-portable, anti-armor & anti-demon weapon system ever produced. The only drawback is the delay in discharge as the capacitors spool up to release the hypersonic sabot payload. Several cases of these rifles have been released for field testing.
[list=none]• Range: 50/100/200
• Dmg: 3d12, AP: 12
• ROF: 1; Shooting is a full round action.
• Shots: 12, Helical magazine containing APDS rounds (Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabots)
• Minimum Strength: d10 (20 lbs).
• Notes: Integrated Multi-Optics Scope, Hyperkinetic, MD, Snapfire
• • Helical magazines must be custom made by highly skilled weapons shops and have a base cost of 1000 credits each.
• • APDS rounds must be custom made by highly skilled weapons shops and have a base cost of 250 credits each.
• Rarity: -6 (Rare) Cost: 400,000
[/list]
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.

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Re: Redoing Patron Items

Post by Tribe of One » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:26 pm

I don't think it needs Reload 2, but it should have Snapfire. Then I'd say it's good to go.
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