SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

The place for proposals for Custom Races, Edges, Hindrances, Trappings, TW Modifications, and Iconic Frame Works

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Game Masters Please Vote

Poll ended at Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:26 am

I approve of the MARS Package and the Iconic Frameworks presented.
5
100%
I approve of the MARS Package but not the Iconic Frameworks presented.
0
No votes
I approve of the Iconic Framework, but not the MARS Package presented.
0
No votes
I disapprove of the MARS Package and the Iconic Frameworks presented.
0
No votes
I just want to see the poll results.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 5

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SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Using the Super Powers Companion in Rifts for Savage Worlds.

Both of these Iconic Frameworks require the use of the Super Powers Companion for the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition. These Iconic Frameworks utilize the "New Terms" (Chapter Three of the Super Powers Companion) of Limited Actions (Actions that require the entire round to accomplish) and Limited Free Actions (which are Free Actions that can only be done once per turn, regardless of any other considerations). These Frameworks require access to the Power Stunt setting rule, as well as the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.

Everything about the characters created by these frameworks requires scrutiny from the Game Master especially around the use of Super Edge, and approval and entering play is not where this ends. Players and Game Masters are encouraged to keep a running dialogue about the balance and impact of the character and make sure all are working towards the success of the game, as well as the character's own growth and goals. Both are technically usable by any race, but the Game Master may limit options in their games and should review any race selection with an eye towards the balance of their game. Both options have the possibility of being unbalancing, but also quite fun and interesting. Players, let your imagination run wild! Create these Powerhouses and Super Soldiers!

Image
Super Soldier M.A.R.S. Package
In addition to the basic features of all M.A.R.S. characters (including two Fortune and Glory Rolls and three Hero's Journey rolls, except as limited below), as well as the normal four advances.
  • A Journey of Their Own: The character may not select from or roll on the Magic & Mysticism or Psionics Heroes Journey Tables.
  • The character gains 15 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
  • The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
  • The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
  • Begin with Standard Gear, but they may substitute their armor with an Armored Cloak (see Empires of Humanity) instead.






Image
Powerhouse Iconic Framework
The Megaverse is full of potential Rifts heroes, the Powerhouse Iconic Framework is a catch-all term for a wide variety of augmented, remarkable, supernatural, experimental, extraordinary, and super champions. On Rifts Earth they represent the multitude of fantastic, highly trained, powerful, or supernatural beings that populate this kitchen sink setting. Whether you are a godling, demigod, a genetically bred and specially trained super soldier, a spiritual champion, a supernatural creature, a mutant, or have extraordinary training, you have a wide array of powers and abilities.
  • Superhuman Enhancements: The character gains 45 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points.
  • Exponential Grown: The character gains 5 power points as they reach Seasoned, Veteran and Heroic Ranks.
  • Quirk of the Empowered: The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances and 2 additional points of Hindrances of a social nature (such as Enemy, Outsider, or Vow (such as to an organization) - this does not include personality-based Hindrances such as Arrogant, Bloodthirsty, Loyal, or Quirk). No points are awarded for these hindrances. Additionally, a GM might allow the use of a negative racial abilities instead.
  • Cybernetic Strain: The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points. (Characters with regeneration may not select cybernetics.)
  • Hero's Journey: The character may make 2 Hero's Journey rolls from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.
  • Begin with Standard Gear, but they may substitute their armor with an Armored Cloak (see Empires of Humanity) instead.






To Survive and Thrive
Origin and Trappings: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race, unless your GM says otherwise. These are not the only options, merely suggestions that you and your GM can consider as the character is developed.
  • Psionic Mutant: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
    Genetic Mutation: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example). This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this.
    Bestowed Powers: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic or Miracles) users, including power activators.
    Experiment: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework.
    Supernatural Creatures: Some creatures are just bathed in magical energies. Godlings, Demi-Gods, Demons, or any other kind of creature of supernatural origin. Such creatures are automatically the enemies of the Coalition and possibly the Federation of Magic if they refuse to align with them - making these Hindrances common among such beings. Weaknesses are also common.
  • Whatever else your imagination can come up with!
Power Stunts!: The use of Power Stunts are part of the available options for these kinds of characters. Game Masters and Players alike are encouraged to utilize this for exciting action and compelling stories.
Internalized Power: Gear seems like an easy way to expand the impact of a super powerful character like this, but realistically most gear simply can't keep up with these characters, but that is not true of all such characters. Gear choices should support utility needs (stun and smoke grenades, for example) to deal with situations your powers may not be helpful for.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Pender Lumkiss »

1st off these look fun and well written and thought out. I had a couple of questions and comment below.

Aren’t super soldiers already in the TL players guild represented by the crazy and juicer?

Maybe is there any way to get the source material book and page number in Palldium this is trying to replicate?

Frankly I Would love if I had time to run an all supers game in rifts. Like an existing team got rifted in now have to cope with a new situation and perhaps find a way home. My only issue with the frame work is that typically a frameworks hinderences if you will led a tremendous amount of flavor to the kind of character in the framework. All I see is 2 points of hinderences here. Granted I have not read one lick of the SPC so I am probably missing something.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

The Super Powered Soldier is an OCC called, rather unimpressively, the Super Soldier O.C.C. It’s found in the Mercenaries Sourcebook. The Powerhouse is more based on a Rifts Native Super Powered hero, largely from the Conversion Book which uses Adventurers and Scholars O.C.C.s to replace the skill programs of Heroes Unlimited and allow for the use of HU powers in Rifts.
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"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Also demigods, godlings, characters from Skraypers, PC gargoyls, and all the races not converted or lisenced like the Machine People and Sillhohette that the current rules do not help us do quite right.

It is not one thing, but a consistant guideline for many things until we get official rules for them.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

In regards to adding more Hindrances, thematically I agree, but as Rob has stated in chat, at 45 points there is little point in restricting them further, and I don't think anyone wants to see more SPC power points. As a compromise, we could add another 2 points of hindrances and add another HJ table roll. This brings them up into line with other IFs in regards to HJ table rolls, as well Hindrances.

We want to keep the exact choices fluid, but mandating more points won't be too bad.

Suggested changes:
  • Quirk of the Empowered: The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances and 2 additional points of Hindrances of a social nature (such as Enemy, Outsider, or Vow (such as to an organization) - this does not include personality based Hindrances such as Arrogant, Bloodthirsty, Loyal, or Quirk). No points are awarded for these hindrances. Additionally, a GM might allow the use of a negative racial abilities instead.
  • Hero's Journey: The character may make 2 Hero's Journey rolls from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

I like it.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Ndreare
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

High Command wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:46 pm
Suggested changes:
  • Quirk of the Empowered: The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances and 2 additional points of Hindrances of a social nature (such as Enemy, Outsider, or Vow (such as to an organization) - this does not include personality based Hindrances such as Arrogant, Bloodthirsty, Loyal, or Quirk). No points are awarded for these hindrances. Additionally, a GM might allow the use of a negative racial abilities instead.
  • Hero's Journey: The character may make 2 Hero's Journey rolls from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.
Based on the discussion and want for more hindrances from GM's lets edit this in and call it good. We have 5 votes in favor of this and 0 against it.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
Ndreare
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Posts: 4462
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:55 pm
Location: Skagit County, Washington
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Experimenting with builds, the MARS version should be reduced to 15 points.
My 20 point efforts to imitate other Framworks was broken. But at 15 points you balance better and have to make choices.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
User avatar
High Command
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Posts: 1936
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

modified Super Soldier to 15 PP
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Making my super Sorcerer I just noticed a problem with the Supe Edge when combined with the 20 power point limit of the heavy hitter. It allowed me to take 13 edges on a starting character making most MARS obsolete. Also maybe the power limit should be 15, not 20. But I do not know...

I was able to use the "Best there is" edge to have Magic user with 23 powers and all Power Edges.

I would suggest wording or universal restriction on Super Edge and Super Skill to a power limit of 10.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

I think that falls into GM oversight territory and requiring a strong concept. If your concept is best done with a normal IF, then use that
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Probably right.

It was just shocking how good of a Sorcerer I could make. So I decided to maybe back away from it thinking it would be unfair to the other players in the OP game Technospawn was running.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Tribe of One »

Yeah, Intelligent Construct caps both Edges and Skill bumps at 10, IIRC because someone broke it in playtest in a similar way. Maybe you, @Rib.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Tribe of One wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:38 pm Yeah, Intelligent Construct caps both Edges and Skill bumps at 10, IIRC because someone broke it in playtest in a similar way. Maybe you, @Rib.
Yep, it was me.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

A discussion in Community Chat does bring up a valid point of concern - the interaction of SPC powers and existing abilities such as Dispel, Arcane Resistance, and a Cyber-Knight's Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness. By default in SPC, Super Powers are not Arcane Backgrounds.

My opinion:
I think that is simply untenable as a default in a Savage Rifts game. So the trappings will matter. GMs in particular should have an answer for the specifics of a character's interactions. This will be informed largely by the concept and trappings of the character involved. A reformed demon would unambiguously have supernatural strength and Arcane Resistance would apply. A character made of nano-bots (think Machine People from Phase World) would not interact with a Nega-Psychic at all, but would run afoul of the CYber-Knight's technology affecting powers. A person reconstructed be Gene-Splicers would likely not interact with either power (Arcane Resistance/Dispel or Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness). This can only be a GM's call based on specific situations.

Feedback Request: What are the thoughts of others and are there any other aspects I've left out? Is there anything I'm simply missing?
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Sparky »

This is pretty much in line with my view. Super powers when trapped as magic or psionic should be considered arcane but super strength or heat vision in the vein of being superhuman then it's not arcane.

I might just go with SPC for a proper Super Scientist since Weird Science is a bit of a letdown IMO.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Freemage »

High Command wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:52 pm A discussion in Community Chat does bring up a valid point of concern - the interaction of SPC powers and existing abilities such as Dispel, Arcane Resistance, and a Cyber-Knight's Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness. By default in SPC, Super Powers are not Arcane Backgrounds.

My opinion:
I think that is simply untenable as a default in a Savage Rifts game. So the trappings will matter. GMs in particular should have an answer for the specifics of a character's interactions. This will be informed largely by the concept and trappings of the character involved. A reformed demon would unambiguously have supernatural strength and Arcane Resistance would apply. A character made of nano-bots (think Machine People from Phase World) would not interact with a Nega-Psychic at all, but would run afoul of the CYber-Knight's technology affecting powers. A person reconstructed be Gene-Splicers would likely not interact with either power (Arcane Resistance/Dispel or Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness). This can only be a GM's call based on specific situations.

Feedback Request: What are the thoughts of others and are there any other aspects I've left out? Is there anything I'm simply missing?
The big concern on 'case-by-case' rulings like you propose is that it leaves the player in a state of perpetual uncertainty, not knowing for sure how any particular new interaction is going to go. It can also mean, for players of multiple characters across a number of games, having to remember each individual GM's rulings on such things.

Personally, I believe that if the character is a "Super" IF (ie, either of the two above), then their powers should be treated as vulnerable to Dispel and the like. They get the 'different AB' benefit specifically against Dispel, though.

I might be open to an argument that 'always on' Superpowers (such as Armor or Super-Strength) would be an exception--but I'd argue that if the character was built with the Needs Activation Limitation, then it's back on the Dispel-able list.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by John Carter »

Freemage wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 11:17 pm
High Command wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 8:52 pm A discussion in Community Chat does bring up a valid point of concern - the interaction of SPC powers and existing abilities such as Dispel, Arcane Resistance, and a Cyber-Knight's Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness. By default in SPC, Super Powers are not Arcane Backgrounds.

My opinion:
I think that is simply untenable as a default in a Savage Rifts game. So the trappings will matter. GMs in particular should have an answer for the specifics of a character's interactions. This will be informed largely by the concept and trappings of the character involved. A reformed demon would unambiguously have supernatural strength and Arcane Resistance would apply. A character made of nano-bots (think Machine People from Phase World) would not interact with a Nega-Psychic at all, but would run afoul of the CYber-Knight's technology affecting powers. A person reconstructed be Gene-Splicers would likely not interact with either power (Arcane Resistance/Dispel or Cyberkinetic Combat/Awareness). This can only be a GM's call based on specific situations.

Feedback Request: What are the thoughts of others and are there any other aspects I've left out? Is there anything I'm simply missing?
The big concern on 'case-by-case' rulings like you propose is that it leaves the player in a state of perpetual uncertainty, not knowing for sure how any particular new interaction is going to go. It can also mean, for players of multiple characters across a number of games, having to remember each individual GM's rulings on such things.

Personally, I believe that if the character is a "Super" IF (ie, either of the two above), then their powers should be treated as vulnerable to Dispel and the like. They get the 'different AB' benefit specifically against Dispel, though.

I might be open to an argument that 'always on' Superpowers (such as Armor or Super-Strength) would be an exception--but I'd argue that if the character was built with the Needs Activation Limitation, then it's back on the Dispel-able list.
I don't think case-by-case rulings will be a problem because from the characters' perspectives that's how things will be anyway. They don't get to look at PC and NPC sheets so all they have to go by is what they know, sense or observe.

And most of the time it will be pretty obvious to a character whether they count as magic or psionic or something else. The guy with the cloak muttering arcane words and making flamboyant gestures is obviously a magic user, while the half-machine thing is definitely a cyborg. And in the cases where it's not immediately obvious there's Detect Arcana. If a character pings on that radar then he definitely can be affected the way more conventional magic and psionic characters can.

That said, I will note as a counterpoint that I went looking around the Pinnacle Forums and found an opinion that disagrees with the idea that trappings should determine what affects a power. Here's a link to the thread where the quote below is from.
Sean Owen Roberson wrote:We don't have official support for the SWADE Super Powers Companion yet, but are working on supporting it in future updates to the "Savaging Your Favorite Rifts Ideas" pdf.

In the mean time, treat Arcane Background Super Powers from the SWADE Super Powers Companion as AB Gifted (TLPG page 120).


In general, yes Super Powers ABs are subject to detect arcana, dispel, etc. as normal -- it's up to individual GMs but I don't see how the Secret Identity Edge would in any way shield a character from being detected.

Really though, this is a core rules question regarding the detect arcana power and how it interacts with AB Super Powers.
Now this is a preliminary ruling until an official update to Savaging Your Favorite Rift Ideas is out and not the final say, so it's only quasi-official. And in the end he does leave it up to the GM.

In any case, I support the idea of trappings being the deciding factor.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Tribe of One »

I would default to the position that SPC Super Powers (including passive things like super-strength, etc.) are subject to dispel/detect etc. just like AB powers. For one, there are functional reasons (which I think are driving Sean's preliminary ruling above). Second, it's consistent with the original -- Rifts Conversion Book 1, which spent a lot of word count on how to integrate supers in Rifts, laid out how many/most superpowers were heightened on Rifts Earth due to the increased magical energy. So, Wolverine's regeneration may not be "magic" but is empowered by the background energy -- and if it can be affected positively it can be affected negatively.

For SPC powers that are supposed to be technological in nature, let them take a trapping/modifier that makes them subject to Technical Difficulties (and the C-K's combat awareness) but unaffected by magic.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by MJH »

I also agree that it is game specific (case by case) and up to the game and GM to decide. Intent, as well as Trappings, matters. There ought to be a little common sense applied to what the character is trying to emulate. In most cases we can default to the Palladium source material and make a call. No different than using the Intelligent Construct rules or re-trapping another IF. For true Supers, I agree with Tribe on what Conversion Book 1 says.

The issue comes in when a player wants to create something totally outside what Rifts encompasses already. Given how hard that is to do, I would question the player as to why they want to do such a thing and (if I were the GM).
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Sarah Winters »

I'll go even further than this.

Since I am one to take issue with the addition I'll add my thoughts then hopefully disappear.

IMO, converting stuff to Rifts is much less complicated and far more versatile than this. By adding the CC and combat/SPP system to existing games, what you're essentially doing here is converting Rifts --> SPC and not SPC --> Rifts.

I will posit, "there is nothing you cannot make within the Rifts rules that would necessitate adding SPC rules." I'll repeat here that I flat-out *love* supers games, including SW Superpowers. But Rifts has mechanics for adding any concept the SPC book has without using the CC and powers/combat system involving superpower points.

Someone looking at humans as a race might say, "well I need someone with super strength to be more like this race x from planet y."

So, add strength to the race. SW and SWR both have custom race rules and point systems for exactly this purpose. We have reskinning/retrapping for exactly this purpose.

Example, Power: Explode. It's an AoE effect that can do from 3d10-5d10 damage and have some different trappings or aftereffects. Looks like a slightly modified Burster power to me with choice of energy type.

Chameleon is modified Disguise. Altered Form is modified Shape Change. And so on.

I've already seen comments like, "well I don't like the Rifts version of x and like the SPC version better." See above, same solution.

The rules listed on pp.30-> of the Super Powers Companion are setting rules. Since some have been mentioned already, does that mean all those mechanics are now part of the existing games, if the GM chooses?

Some super powers are unlimited use, while arcane background counterparts in Rifts face pp limitations. PC at-will powers are not the norm in Rifts, instead opting for limited or measured use.

That is my issue. I was in a Rifts game and now suddenly I'm in a Supers or hybrid Rifts/Supers game. I didn't sign up for that.

I've been asked, "why are you so worried about mechanics? - it's not like your PC would be." But that's what all this pretzel-twisting conversion addition stuff is-- justifying mechanics.

If everything is going to be a GM call as to what is acceptable and what is not as I have read several times now, then I'll point out a GM is already approving a specific PC or concept without need of changing the mechanics for the entire party. And if they choose to change those mechanics, I'd say it is fair to give players some notice so they don't invest in a game that suddenly changes engines midstream.
MJH wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:51 am I also agree that it is game specific (case by case) and up to the game and GM to decide. Intent, as well as Trappings, matters. There ought to be a little common sense applied to what the character is trying to emulate. In most cases we can default to the Palladium source material and make a call. No different than using the Intelligent Construct rules or re-trapping another IF. For true Supers, I agree with Tribe on what Conversion Book 1 says.

The issue comes in when a player wants to create something totally outside what Rifts encompasses already. Given how hard that is to do, I would question the player as to why they want to do such a thing and (if I were the GM).

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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

I would argue there is nothing outside of what Rifts encompasses. Super powers exist in Rifts not just as races like Star Children, Lone Star creations but even straight up super heroes.

What I think is legitimate is wanting tone control. Many games need a certain tone in order to feel right and a SPC based character couple as easily break that as an Intelligent Construct or a Dragon.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Sarah Winters »

You appear to be referring to setting. I agree. Rifts as a setting includes everything.

Rules however, I disagree. Adding supers rules makes it a supers game and directly affects and possibly even limits those wanting to play with the Rifts rules.

Which again can also be fine, if that is agreed upon at the outset.

Not sure what you mean by tone - could you clarify? "Feel right" means something different to everyone.
Ndreare wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:49 pm I would argue there is nothing outside of what Rifts encompasses. Super powers exist in Rifts not just as races like Star Children, Lone Star creations but even straight up super heroes.

What I think is legitimate is wanting tone control. Many games need a certain tone in order to feel right and a SPC based character couple as easily break that as an Intelligent Construct or a Dragon.

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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

What I meant by tone control is stuff like in Phase World the target is an over the top agresive game.

Meanwhile the tone for The Struggle is low powered heroes who are intimidated by brodkil.

Both have the same GM, both have Savage Rifts as the core. But the tone of the two games are completly differnt and even the actions of the characters are differnt. A Lone wolf killer would be rejected from one game, while sitting among pears in the other.

Supers can change the tone of a game and are like Cyborgs, Dragons and Intelligent constructs. They belong with the heavy hitters who are smashing through enemies.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Kira »

Ndreare wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:34 am What I meant by tone control is stuff like in Phase World the target is an over the top agresive game.

Meanwhile the tone for The Struggle is low powered heroes who are intimidated by brodkil.

Both have the same GM, both have Savage Rifts as the core. But the tone of the two games are completly differnt and even the actions of the characters are differnt. A Lone wolf killer would be rejected from one game, while sitting among pears in the other.

Supers can change the tone of a game and are like Cyborgs, Dragons and Intelligent constructs. They belong with the heavy hitters who are smashing through enemies.
Would that be African or European pears? :D
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by MJH »

Tone is a better word than intent. I want to clarify that I think the SPC can have a place in Rifts. As Ndreare said, it all depends on the game that is being set up.

I do agree that special care should be taken when incorporating it, however, and that should be communicated up front.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Tribe of One »

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that SPC "doesn't belong." SPC2 provided a bunch of the building blocks for Savage Rifts 1.0 and in some cases (Burster) we'd be better off if they'd hewed more closely to SPC rules in SR2.0, rather than trying to force it into the SWADE powers box. SPC's point system is still the default we use for building/evaluating ICs. I think it can work just fine in current Savage Rifts -- and can just as easily break it -- so GM oversight is, as always, vital.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Sarah Winters »

Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't belong. I said addition of the rules was unnecessary and that it will cause problems if incorporated in an existing game. I haven't seen a concept that could not be reproduced in the Rifts CC and rules, especially since the GM can allow anything for any PC within the Rifts CC and combat system.

I even said that incorporating the SPC rules would be fine if done at game setup, with caveats to follow.

The PC concepts work just fine but SPC rules introduced into a Rifts game causes a conundrum. Just one example --

Limited Actions and Limited Free Actions (p.29 SPC). The supers PCs have them, the Rifts PCs do not (which is an extension of the other conundrum I mentioned about "always on" powers - supers have them and most Rifts PCs don't). But see then you're either:
1) Eliminating the SPC rules in the interest of balance/fairness, or
2) Allowing a disparity in PC powers and how they operate (why pay for Invisibility if I can just turn it on and off for free?), or
3) operating under the SPC ruleset, along with combined attacks and all the rest, which is not converting SPC to Rifts (well it's not really converting anything TBH but instead, adding) but the other way around.

Another example, as HC said -- "Super Powers are not Arcane Backgrounds" and yet most are saying that doesn't work in a Rifts game (or, at least that AR and Dispel should apply). So we are already equivocating, because really all that is going to do is make players be a little more creative with trappings to get around Arcane Resistance and Dispel.

Which, again, can already be done inside the SR rules, just more tightly controlled by IF, which I think was intended.

EDIT: Side notes. Maybe limit Mega Power modifiers to Rifts to balance out the "always on" advantage in Supers?

Want people to GM? Limit full supers to villains/NPCs lol
Tribe of One wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:38 pm Yeah, I don't buy the argument that SPC "doesn't belong." SPC2 provided a bunch of the building blocks for Savage Rifts 1.0 and in some cases (Burster) we'd be better off if they'd hewed more closely to SPC rules in SR2.0, rather than trying to force it into the SWADE powers box. SPC's point system is still the default we use for building/evaluating ICs. I think it can work just fine in current Savage Rifts -- and can just as easily break it -- so GM oversight is, as always, vital.

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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

Epic Eric Acy wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:29 pm Limited Actions and Limited Free Actions (p.29 SPC). The supers PCs have them, the Rifts PCs do not (which is an extension of the other conundrum I mentioned about "always on" powers - supers have them and most Rifts PCs don't). But see then you're either:
1) Eliminating the SPC rules in the interest of balance/fairness, or
2) Allowing a disparity in PC powers and how they operate (why pay for Invisibility if I can just turn it on and off for free?), or
3) operating under the SPC ruleset, along with combined attacks and all the rest, which is not converting SPC to Rifts (well it's not really converting anything TBH but instead, adding) but the other way around.
Why not a 4?

4) Treat Limited Free Actions as Innate actions in Rifts? Limited actions remain the same as an action that can only be performed once per turn.

At will actions do exist in Rifts on many characters and builds, so I do not see the problem with it.

As to the rest of your post I do not have anything to add that has not been said.
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by High Command »

Revision of my suggestions

Based on What Sean said (it's not a ruling, more of a guideline until a ruling is made):
Anything with an activation (ie a Focus roll) can be dispelled (suppressed). Anything else would simply interact with Arcane Resistance (with its resistance to damage). All of it could be detected via Detect Arcane. As for always on, they would no more be affected than the base toughness of magical tattoos or the boosted strength of the dragon juicer.

Characters must choose one of the four ABs to trap their powers as:
Default: Treat AB Super Heroes as AB Gifted.
Optional: Characters can choose AB Magic, AB Miracles, or AB Weird Science as possible trappings as well. They would interact with powers as those ABs. In this way there isn't a lot of ambiguity but still a wide variety of options. GMs can modify things, of course, and they are the final arbiter, as always. It's worth noting they would still use Focus unless the GM will allow them to pick up the AB skill instead. Even a magically empowered superhero using a magic sword wouldn't necessarily be able to cast spells or even understand them. Their focus is their innate powers, not greater understanding of the forces of the universe. if they had that, they would be a Ley Line Walker, Shifter, or something else.

Limited Free Actions are treated as Innate Actions in Rifts.

The GM will need to decide what SPC3 Setting Rules they will use in their games, if any, and how widely they want it to apply. Comic Book Combat could easily be applied to any high powered game, not just SPC3 characters.
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Re: SPC3 Iconic Frameworks

Post by Ndreare »

This was a stop gap to hold out until we could get an official framework. I imagine at this point the sticky tag can be removed and this can go away.

Here is the link to the semi-official framework and I would think new characters should be built with this in mind.

https://peginc.com/store/savaging-rifts/

What is the general opinion?
  • 2D6 EFFECT
    2 Catastrophe: Something goes terribly wrong. The GM must decide what, but some ideas are a new and permanent Minor Hindrance, the inability to use powers for several days, or an explosion of some sort. The backlash should be thematic if possible. If the hero tampers with dark forces for his abilities, for example, he might become corrupted or summon something sinister into the world. If he’s a weird scientist the device might explode for 3d6 damage in a Medium Blast Template, or he might develop a Quirk, Phobia, or other “madness.”

    3 Backfire: The power succeeds as with a raise but affects a different target with the worst possible results. A bolt hits a random friend, boost Trait increases an enemy’s skill or attribute, etc. If there’s no likely target, he’s Stunned instead. If the power has a Duration other than Instant, it lasts its full term and can only be negated by dispel (the caster can’t voluntarily end it herself).

    4–5 Short Circuit: The power fails but the Power Points allocated to it are spent, along with an additional 1d6 Power Points.

    6–8 Stunned: The caster is Stunned (see page 106). She subtracts 2 from arcane skill rolls for the rest of the encounter (the penalty remains –2 even if she gets this result again).

    9–10 Overload: The character’s synapses crackle and overload with power. He takes 2d6 damage plus the cost of the power in Power Points, including any Power Modifiers the player declared.

    11 Fatigue: The character suffers Fatigue.

    12 Overcharge: The power draws ambient energy from the air, automatically succeeding against the target with a raise and costing the caster no Power Points!

,
1 = 2 of Clubs
2 = 2 of Diamonds
3 = 2 of Hearts
4 = 2 of Spades
5 = 3 of Clubs
6 = 3 of Diamonds
7 = 3 of Hearts
8 = 3 of Spades
9 = 4 of Clubs
10 = 4 of Diamonds
11 = 4 of Hearts
12 = 4 of Spades
13 = 5 of Clubs
14 = 5 of Diamonds
15 = 5 of Hearts
16 = 5 of Spades
- reroll line for quickness & activation for Calculating -
17 = 6 of Clubs
18 = 6 of Diamonds
19 = 6 of Hearts
20 = 6 of Spades
21 = 7 of Clubs
22 = 7 of Diamonds
23 = 7 of Hearts
24 = 7 of Spades
25 = 8 of Clubs
26 = 8 of Diamonds
27 = 8 of Hearts
28 = 8 of Spades
- reroll line for Hyperion Juicer -
29 = 9 of Clubs
30 = 9 of Diamonds
31 = 9 of Hearts
32 = 9 of Spades
33 = 10 of Clubs
34 = 10 of Diamonds
35 = 10 of Hearts
36 = 10 of Spades
37 = J of Clubs
38 = J of Diamonds
39 = J of Hearts
40 = J of Spades
41 = Q of Clubs
42 = Q of Diamonds
43 = Q of Hearts
44 = Q of Spades
45 = K of Clubs
46 = K of Diamonds
47 = K of Hearts
48 = K of Spades
49 = A of Clubs
50 = A of Diamonds
51 = A of Hearts
52 = A of Spades
53 = Jokers = They are equal
54 = Jokers = They are equal
- If no reroll is being used then there are 2 extra jokers -
55 = Jokers = They are equal
56 = Jokers = They are equal
and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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