SavageRifts.com

I plan on allowing SPC characters in the Remorseless and am trying to hammer out a framework that we can universally allow on the site until the new Savaging Your Favorite Rifts comes out.

So this is what I have allowed, but I would like feedback, and especially from @Lars as I would like to turn Humble into a SPC3 build.


When making a character with Super Powers there are two options:

MARS Super Soldier Option

• Select the M.A.R.S. Iconic Framework.
• The character gains 20 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• HJ Magic & Mysticism and Psionics are removed from the allowed Heroes Journey tables the character may roll on/select from.
• With game master permission the character may select a race other than human. However races with more than 6 inherent hindrance points are discouraged and power Trappings selected must respect the selected races Restricted Paths if they have them.
• Custom Races will be heavily scrutinized.
• Begin with Standard Gear
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amount of limitations on powers, or designs that are effectively another framework built better.
  Special focus should be paid for character with already powerful races (such as Altara and Psi-Ghost) to ensure the final character effect is not game breaking or vetoing other characters.

Supernaturals and Super Soldiers

• The character gains 40 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points.
• The character gains 5 power points each rank as their power grows.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• HJ Magic & Mysticism and Psionics are removed from the allowed Heroes Journey tables the character may roll on/select from.
• With game master permission the character may select a race other than human. However races with more than 6 inherent hindrance points are discouraged and power Trappings selected must respect the selected races Restricted Paths if they have them.
• Custom Races will be heavily scrutinized.
• Begin with Standard Gear
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amount of limitations on powers, or designs that are effectively another framework built better.
  Special focus should be paid for character with already powerful races (such as Altara and Psi-Ghost) to ensure the final character effect is not game breaking or vetoing other characters.

My plan would be to use the second one to represent my Godling character Humble as an Ogre with the second one.

EDIT: Updated per @High Command's feedback.

re: MARS Super Soldier: 30 seems like a lot. Given that you can build a better mars character with it than MARS can do on its own. most MARS packages are in the 20 build point range, which favorably compares to 20 SPC power points used to by the same stuff. So for the drawback of 4 extra points they get 10 beyond what MARS can do? Seems a bit strong. I could see 25 with a power limit of 10.

On Both: Strain should reduce power points by 2 per point since each point of strain represents about 2 build points.

Beyond Bounds: I'm not sure you should limit HJ to 1. I think 2 would be acceptable. The reason being that if a game DOESN'T allow you some measure of control over the rolls, someone might trade 2 for one.

Further Consideration: Can the character choose another AB? As of now they are not necessarily restricted. That may be intentional and I'm not personally opposed, but its worth asking.


Setting Rules
Which setting rules should be allowed?


Re: Custom Races, with the caveat that a GM might allow the use of campaign specific custom races. I'm thinking of Phase World Gun Brothers or Invincible Guardsmen, or even Warlock Marines.

High Command wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:39 am ...

Feedback incorporated, I think I captured your intent.

MARS packages are balanced around 16-18 pts, so 20 SPC points, not 25, makes sense if you require a Hindrance and also have the cyber drawback. I could see going up to 25 if you removed an F&G roll, perhaps.

As for the 60 pt option, I think that's too much without additional drawbacks. The Intelligent Construct comes in at about 48 pts including HJ rolls and drawbacks and it is a beast. SPC is just as flexible if not more so. I think you need to either build in 10-15 pts of drawbacks, which is a lot (but consider the IC or Sea Titans, etc for some real negatives) or start them at 45 SPC pts and let them spend an advance at each new rank to get 5 more points.

@Tribe of One I think you need to re-math the IC.
They come preloaded with 8 points, recieve bonus points for design choice up front and get to pick 48 points if custom.
I think most builds get an extra 10-20 build points from the inframework hindrances.

I see your point.

So 45 with some growth potential could work. I would still max them at 60 to be on part with Cyborgs and Dragons.

The character gains two Hero's Journey rolls from any table except HJ Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.

Items and Gadgets off limits too?

____

Cannot be combine with Custom Races will be heavily scrutinized, not allowed for any races with Restricted Path from any Arcane Background

Depending on where the coma should be… reword that, it confuses my limited mind

Any AB? I mean: if race restrictions are no Magic but Psi ok, is answer a no still.

I’m thinking about it. Just initial thoughts that others didn’t already address.

Ndreare wrote: ↑Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:19 am
[*]Cannot be combine with races that have Restricted Path from any Arcane Background.
[*]Custom Races will be heavily scrutinized.

Maybe this is clearer?

That's much better, yes.

As for balance, I concur that the 'main' SPC branch is properly balanced against the heavy hitter IF's. I admit liking 30 points for MARS just because it lets you take Best There Is and spend exactly half your power points on one power, then have a nice even 15 left for whatever else you want.

But that is...a very aesthetic thing, and has nothing to do with game balance, hehe.

First to admit I don't have a very numerical grasp of what's balanced in the system and what's not. The edges feel pretty fuzzy to me. With SPC, what's balanced varies a LOT by build, and not necessarily by point value.

Example, using Rob's 60 point version there, I made a version of a character who has a relatively narrow field of power within which she is very strong...but outside of that she's just a mildly enhanced human baseline. Put her up against a battalion of combat robots and cyborgs, and she will wreak havoc. A bunch of completely organic creatures with pointy sticks? ...well she has a gun.

The point being that that's one result of 60 points. But another could easily be someone rocking Toughness 30, with a -10 damage force field and a ranged attack that does 10d6 damage (with some creative synergy from edges and so on).Of course, even THAT character has a narrow focus. Outside of a combat situation, they're likely not to have much to say.

Allowing that kind of super-flexible character generation requires more collaboration between player and GM, and a player to be more willing to listen and make adjustments. The payoff is the ability to create unique concepts that can't be done right any other way.

...

So I think 60 is probably fine. 45 to start with some scaling per rank, also probably fine.

I like tribe’s thoughts of 30 pts with 10-15 pts worth of drawbacks to get up to 45 pts. I would recommend some kind of sliding scale so that if you were running big damn heroes, megaversal ravagers, etc. you would have a different pt build.

I honestly feel like the 30 points with 10+ points of hindrances feels deliberately punitive. At that point the GM should just be saying "Nah, I would rather not have that in my game."

Even the old version had 55 points with only 4 points in hindrances. The characters made in that version where not broken, and the GMs had the ability to edit or nurf them when needed.

My suggestion for the 'pure' Super is straight-up Rising Stars Tier IV. So you start with 40 SPC points, but then get 5 more points for free (not as an Advance) at each new Rank from Seasoned onward. Power limit is still 20 points.

I'm not sure I agree entirely with forbidding any Race that has a single forbidden AB type. Rather, I'd argue that Trappings for such a character would be restricted. Characters who can't use PPE but can use ISP (the most common version, given the existence of so many psychic races) would be limited to suitably 'psychic' Powers and Trappings, while non-ISP-using races would be barred from those same sorts of Trappings and Powers. Obviously, this requires a closer collaboration between the GM and the Player, in order to make sure they agree on where the line is.

I do see multiple people indicate Rising Stars type approach which is strange to me as something I do not see in Palladium Rifts or Savage Rifts models. I think the attraction to that model must be based on personal taste for it, rather than something in the game?

What other framework has a model of gaining power or access as they level without using an edge.

Ndreare wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:05 pm I do see multiple people indicate Rising Stars type approach which is strange to me as something I do not see in Palladium Rifts or Savage Rifts models. I think the attraction to that model must be based on personal taste for it, rather than something in the game?

What other framework has a model of gaining power or access as they level without using an edge.

TW get more free Edges (Major Enchant Item) as they level... and can throw more Upgrades onto the TW items they make

Hum, I could make arguments about design and timing. But realistically that is a good point. Unlike other frameworks they really are designed with the Zero to Hero structure. So maybe Rifts does have room for that type of build.

Ndreare wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:05 pm I do see multiple people indicate Rising Stars type approach which is strange to me as something I do not see in Palladium Rifts or Savage Rifts models. I think the attraction to that model must be based on personal taste for it, rather than something in the game?

What other framework has a model of gaining power or access as they level without using an edge.

I'll add in that Shifters (especially Diabolists and Elementalists) definitely get 'power-ups' just by Advancing, since their central Power is tiered to Rank.

As for making it 'free', well, that's partially a compromise and, yes, a preference on play-style. As noted, at least some Frameworks start out at 60 points. This is a way to get Supers there without having them be quite so front-loaded, and without shackling them with a mandatory Edge-per-Rank build.

Okay, so I made a bunch of changes above based on the feedback.
I changed the points to 40 with 5 point gain per rank. I also changed the working on alternate race selection.
So let's take a look again please and see if this is workable.


I really dislike the idea of being able to combine SPC builds with already powerful races like Psi-Ghost, Sea Titans, Atlanteans Atlanteans and and Altanrans.

Perhaps the best way would be to say "Mechanically human". And have an option if you want the mechanical properties of a race you lose 5 power points?

Ndreare wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:58 am Okay, so I made a bunch of changes above based on the feedback.
I changed the points to 40 with 5 point gain per rank. I also changed the working on alternate race selection.
So let's take a look again please and see if this is workable.


I really dislike the idea of being able to combine SPC builds with already powerful races like Psi-Ghost, Sea Titans, Atlanteans Atlanteans and and Altanrans.

Perhaps the best way would be to say "Mechanically human". And have an option if you want the mechanical properties of a race you lose 5 power points?

In SWD, you would start with a mechanical Human... then use the points for Powers to simulate a different race. Any race can be simulated with points for Powers. These guys should get the option to add Racial Hindrances, with maybe a 5 or 10 point max, and get these points for more Powers. In addition, they should start with some Inhuman Physiology, Mutant/DB, as well as Wanted by the Coalition and/or Federation.

Tiny Tim wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:11 am

Ndreare wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:58 am Okay, so I made a bunch of changes above based on the feedback.
I changed the points to 40 with 5 point gain per rank. I also changed the working on alternate race selection.
So let's take a look again please and see if this is workable.


I really dislike the idea of being able to combine SPC builds with already powerful races like Psi-Ghost, Sea Titans, Atlanteans Atlanteans and and Altanrans.

Perhaps the best way would be to say "Mechanically human". And have an option if you want the mechanical properties of a race you lose 5 power points?

In SWD, you would start with a mechanical Human... then use the points for Powers to simulate a different race. Any race can be simulated with points for Powers. These guys should get the option to add Racial Hindrances, with maybe a 5 or 10 point max, and get these points for more Powers. In addition, they should start with some Inhuman Physiology, Mutant/DB, as well as Wanted by the Coalition and/or Federation.

I like this approach. I just think about how broken a character I can make with the Atlantis book even without the customization of the SPC 3. Combining the two would be ridiculous.

Imagine a True Atlantean with 60 power points.

I'm digging it, now.

Freemage wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:59 pm I'm digging it, now.

With our without the change to race?

I personally like the change proposed to race by max.

Something like the following work for everyone? I would like to change to 45 starting points and +5 points at Seasoned, Veteran, and Heroic. I never see GMs willing to run Legendary characters and do not see the point in carrots set at that rank.

Updated wrote: MARS Super Soldier Option

• Select the M.A.R.S. Iconic Framework.
• The character gains 15 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• Mechanically Human: The character begins mechanically human. The player can represent a race by selecting appropriate edges and powers, allowing up to four additional hindrance points in hindrances representing the traits of the race.
• Begin with Standard Gear
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amount of limitations on powers.
• HJ Magic & Mysticism and Psionics are removed from the allowed Heroes Journey tables the character may roll on/select from.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.

Supernaturals and Super Soldiers

• The character gains 45 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points. **See note above**
• The character gains 5 power points each rank until Legendary as their power grows.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances)
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• Mechanically Human: The character begins mechanically human. The player can represent a race by selecting appropriate edges and powers, allowing up to four additional hindrance points in hindrances representing the traits of the race.
• Begin with Standard Gear
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amount of limitations on powers.
• HJ Magic & Mysticism and Psionics are removed from the allowed Heroes Journey tables the character may roll on/select from.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.

I like the race changes, and yeah, the adjustment to the points works for me.

I have no issue with Mechanically Human on Superhuman Powerhouse (a better name IMO than Supernaturals and Super Soldiers, which is confusing with the MARS option), but I disagree with it on the MARS option, or at the least it should include options if you want to replicate a True Atlantean who has been Alchemically modified to be a super soldier for their Clan, or a Sea Titan embracing their inner mutations, etc.

A GM can just say no to a race if they see it being a problem with the MARS option. I'd rather see a GM say "no one using the Super Soldier MARS Framework can use the following Races: List of races" than to blanket ban them in the IF.

As for Restricted Trappings; give them a few origin options:

Origin and Trappings: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race (or virtual race if you are a Superhuman Powerhouse), unless your GM says otherwise.
Psionic Mutant: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
Genetic Mutation: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example). This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this.
Bestowed Powers: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic) users, including power activators.
Experiment: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework.

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[b]Origin and Trappings[/b]: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race (or virtual race if you are a Superhuman Powerhouse), unless your GM says otherwise. 
[u]Psionic Mutant[/u]: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
[u]Genetic Mutation[/u]: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example).  This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this. 
[u]Bestowed Powers[/u]: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic) users, including power activators. 
[u]Experiment[/u]: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework. 

High Command wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:22 pm I have no issue with Mechanically Human on Superhuman Powerhouse (a better name IMO than Supernaturals and Super Soldiers, which is confusing with the MARS option), but I disagree with it on the MARS option, or at the least it should include options if you want to replicate a True Atlantean who has been Alchemically modified to be a super soldier for their Clan, or a Sea Titan embracing their inner mutations, etc.

A GM can just say no to a race if they see it being a problem with the MARS option. I'd rather see a GM say "no one using the Super Soldier MARS Framework can use the following Races: List of races" than to blanket ban them in the IF.

I really think there are iconic frameworks such as elemental fuzionist, nega-spychic, bio-borg with previous examples already of restricted or no race allowed. If you want to include being a specific race as part of the concept there is room for that in using the hindrances and selections.

Even the three frameworks I think these balance most closely to: Cyborg, Dragon Hatchling and Intelligent Construct. All disallow additional races to be tacked on to their powerful builds. If you want to represent a Elven cyborg then you use your bonus edge or hindrance points for that. But you do not stack the elven racial package on top of the cyborg package.

GMs can allow or disallow whatever, but closing a door is always much harder than opening one. So I personally would rather see the races get restricted. I would really prefer to see feedback from more people on this. I do not even know how long it will be useful because once Savaging Your favorite rifts comes out I am sure there should be examples for using SPC in it.

High Command wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:22 pm As for Restricted Trappings; give them a few origin options:

Origin and Trappings: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race (or virtual race if you are a Superhuman Powerhouse), unless your GM says otherwise.
Psionic Mutant: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
Genetic Mutation: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example). This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this.
Bestowed Powers: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic) users, including power activators.
Experiment: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework.

Code: Select all

[b]Origin and Trappings[/b]: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race (or virtual race if you are a Superhuman Powerhouse), unless your GM says otherwise. 
[u]Psionic Mutant[/u]: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
[u]Genetic Mutation[/u]: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example).  This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this. 
[u]Bestowed Powers[/u]: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic) users, including power activators. 
[u]Experiment[/u]: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework. 

I am 100% opposed to an origin list, this is a "hill to die on" situation for me. I get the point of having one, but the whole idea for an SPC option is for opening the door on things not yet converted. Let's say I want to play a Gargoyle Mage, where does that fit in the list there? No the answer is not to add a new item on the list. But to take the open path of accepting that a defined list is the opposite approach from what is being taken here.

First, the three you listed are full IFs, not MARS Packages. The Super Soldier is a MARS Package. Show an example of a MARS Package limiting race. I was all for the full thing using Mechanically Human, because there is a lot of precedent for a full IF having enough built in extras to make up for a race. MARS is not that.

As for the origins, It literally has in there "or create another with their GM" for that very reason. The idea is to give options not limit them. Also a Gargoyle Mage is actually a genetic mutation - their powers would fully fall into Gifted. They do not use magic spells like a ley line walker. They channel magic like a warlock, much like the Elemental Fusionist. But if you wanted one that did use magic, you just modify the bestowed to fit. They are aids, not crutches.

But I also listed it as an option you could use. Use as you will or won't, but don't misrepresent it or look at it like some straightjacket.

I missed the part where you intended the trappings to be limits for the Mars. That actually can make sense and I wouldn't see a problem with it. I thought you were suggesting those 4 trappings for all SPC characters.

Ndreare wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:58 pm I missed the part where you intended the trappings to be limits for the Mars. That actually can make sense and I wouldn't see a problem with it. I thought you were suggesting those 4 trappings for all SPC characters.

I guess the inherent limits on races would really only apply to MARS, that's true, but they are meant as a suggestion on how you could trap the powers, not how you have to.

You could add them as part of a Survive and Thrive afterword much like there are suggestions for all IFs. That way they are very clearly suggestions and not restrictions.

I can’t get behind a Mars super package that removes picking a race. I’m fine with built in restrictions and/or gm veto.

IF version is fine.

As a MARS you are already dealing with a small pool of power points to build your super concept, and trying to Rachet in points and edges/hindrances to represent Dog Boy or Zembahk is too much.

Supernaturals and Super Soldiers

Humble.

Go for it.

So I took out the bit about race, I think a GM can just use scrutiny.

Update, Updated wrote: Super Soldier MARS Package

• A Journey of Their Own: The character may not select from or roll on the Magic & Mysticism or Psionics Heroes Journey Tables.
• The character gains 20 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• Begin with Standard Gear.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amounts of limitations on powers or racial combinations that could be unbalancing to the game.

Update, Updated wrote: Supers and Supernaturals Iconic Framework
There are many beings, godlings, demi-gods, demons, and devil out there that adventure in the world of Rifts. This simplified framework allows the player to build their own character type.

• The character gains 45 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points. **See note above**
• The character gains 5 power points each rank until Legendary as their power grows.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points. (Characters with regeneration may not select cybernetics.)
• Begin with Standard Gear.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amounts of limitations on powers or racial combinations that could be unbalancing to the game.
• Hero's Journey: The character may make 1 Hero's Journey roll/selection from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.

Are these ready I could toss up for some votes?

You have to remember I’m not as good at these rules as some of you. So. My questions…

Update, Updated wrote: Super Soldier MARS Package

• A Journey of Their Own: The character may not select from or roll on the Magic & Mysticism or Psionics Heroes Journey Tables.How many HJ rolls they get? Same as all MARS? Maybe should be less.
• The character gains 20 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• Begin with Standard Gear.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amounts of limitations on powers or racial combinations that could be unbalancing to the game.

Update, Updated wrote: Supers and Supernaturals Iconic Framework
There are many beings, godlings, demi-gods, demons, and devil out there that adventure in the world of Rifts. This simplified framework allows the player to build their own character type.

• The character gains 45 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points. **See note above** Spell it out again because I’m not sure what note.
• The character gains 5 power points each rank until Legendary as their power grows.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points. (Characters with regeneration may not select cybernetics.)
• Begin with Standard Gear.
• Setting Rules and Terms: The character is subject to the "New Terms" defined in SPC, in addition they have access to the Power Stunt setting rule, the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.
• Scrutiny: Much like the Intelligent Construct SPC builds allow a lot of customization. Game Masters are encouraged to veto and disallow characters with a large amounts of limitations on powers or racial combinations that could be unbalancing to the game.
• Hero's Journey: The character may make 1 Hero's Journey roll/selection from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.

Only other thing…. For both: cybernetic causes loss of 2 PP.
1:2 ratio may be fine but wonder if it should be harsher? Maybe not. Just thinking.

They are both well written.

Once clarified I would vote Yes.

I forgot to add Patrick's Beckford packages.

The MARS would get two F&G rolls and three HJ rolls.

I should be able to find time to clean it up and redo it again tonight

Powerhouse Iconic Framework: How about this for a name for the full IF, since this is really what you're after. Still prefer this over pigeonholing it into a required supernatural element; could just as easily retrap it as the Janissary from the Rifters, which is a genetic CS supersoldier character. Or a monster created by the Genesplicers. Or the Invincible Guardsman or Gun Brothers from Phase World. Or even Cosmo-Knights.

High Command wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:59 pm Powerhouse Iconic Framework: How about this for a name for the full IF, since this is really what you're after. Still prefer this over pigeonholing it into a required supernatural element; could just as easily retrap it as the Janissary from the Rifters, which is a genetic CS supersoldier character. Or a monster created by the Genesplicers. Or the Invincible Guardsman or Gun Brothers from Phase World. Or even Cosmo-Knights.

I like this name.

Using the Super Powers Companion in Rifts for Savage Worlds.

Both of these Iconic Frameworks require the use of the Super Powers Companion for the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition. These Iconic Frameworks utilize the "New Terms" (Chapter Three of the Super Powers Companion) of Limited Actions (Actions that require the entire round to accomplish) and Limited Free Actions (which are Free Actions that can only be done once per turn, regardless of any other considerations). These Frameworks require access to the Power Stunt setting rule, as well as the New Edges and New Hindrances from SPC.

Everything about the characters created by these frameworks requires scrutiny from the Game Master, and approval and entering play is not where this ends. Players and Game Masters are encouraged to keep a running dialogue about the balance and impact of the character and make sure all are working towards the success of the game, as well as the character's own growth and goals. Both are technically usable by any race, but the Game Master may limit options in their games and should review any race selection with an eye towards the balance of their game. Both options have the possibility of being unbalancing, but also quite fun and interesting. Players, let your imagination run wild! Create these Powerhouses and Super Soldiers!


Super Soldier M.A.R.S. Package
In addition to the basic features of all M.A.R.S. characters (including two Fortune and Glory Rolls and three Hero's Journey rolls, except as limited below), as well as the normal four advances.

• A Journey of Their Own: The character may not select from or roll on the Magic & Mysticism or Psionics Heroes Journey Tables.
• The character gains 20 Super Power Points with a Power Limit of 10 points.
• The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points.
• Begin with Standard Gear, but they may substitute their armor with an Armored Cloak (see Empires of Humanity) instead.

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Powerhouse Iconic Framework
The Megaverse is full of potential Rifts heroes, the Powerhouse Iconic Framework is a catch-all term for a wide variety of augmented, remarkable, supernatural, experimental, extraordinary, and super champions. On Rifts Earth they represent the multitude of fantastic, highly trained, powerful, or supernatural beings that populate this kitchen sink setting. Whether you are a godling, demigod, a genetically bred and specially trained super soldier, a spiritual champion, a supernatural creature, a mutant, or have extraordinary training, you have a wide array of powers and abilities.

• Superhuman Enhancements: The character gains 45 Super Power Points, with a Power Limit of 20 points.
• Exponential Grown: The character gains 5 power points as they reach Seasoned, Veteran and Heroic Ranks.
• A League of their Own: Powerhouses begin play with any Novice Edge of their choosing. They must meet its Requirements as usual. They may not choose a race, though their powers could easily replicate and expand on the capabilities of any existing race, using them as a template and guide for character development.
• Quirk of the Empowered: The character must take 2 additional points in Physical or Super Hindrances (no points are awarded for these hindrances).
• Cybernetic Strain: The character may take Cybernetics, however each point of Strain reduces available power points by 2 points. (Characters with regeneration may not select cybernetics.)
• Hero's Journey: The character may make 1 Hero's Journey roll from any table except Magic & Mysticism or Psionics.
• Begin with Standard Gear, but they may substitute their armor with an Armored Cloak (see Empires of Humanity) instead.

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To Survive and Thrive
Origin and Trappings: Characters may choose one of the following origins, or create another with their GM. You may not choose an option that is based on an Arcane Background restricted by your race (or effective race if you are a Powerhouse), unless your GM says otherwise. These are not the only options, merely suggestions that you and your GM can consider as the character is developed.

• Psionic Mutant: Your psionics have mutated your body in ways that go beyond the normal psionic mutations common to the populace. You may use psionic trappings, including those normally limited to Mind Melters. You do not start with Arcane Background (Psionics) unless your race (and GM) allows it. This may have been a natural or artificial process.
  Genetic Mutation: Your powers come from a genetic mutation, much like users of Arcane Background (Gifted). Your trappings must stick to things that can be naturally emitted by living creatures, or be natural forces (besides magic and psionics) that could reasonably be adapted to (radiation, fire, ice, or hardened spines on a carapace, for example). This may have been a natural or artificial process. Work this out with your GM. The Genesplicers, the Coalition, and the Transgalactic Empire are all good options for this.
  Bestowed Powers: Granted by a pact with a supernatural creature, or perhaps an enchanted weapon or item, your powers are magical in nature and often must include the same limitations as Arcane Background (Magic or Miracles) users, including power activators.
  Experiment: Much like the genetic mutation origin, changes to your genome, introduced by a super scientist in a lab somewhere. This might have included limited genetic modifications, limited cybernetics/bionics, MOM implants, or even a limited juicer like process. Whatever the case, trappings (and hindrances) should reflect their technological origin, like Arcane Background (Weird Science) users would. Naruni Enterprises, Mindwerks (in Poland), and the Coalition are good suggestions for Origins like this. The Splugorth use Bio-Wizadry to do similar things, but it would pull from the hindrances of the Bio-Borg Iconic Framework.
  Supernatural Creatures: Some creatures are just bathed in magical energies. Godlings, Demi-Gods, Demons, or any other kind of creature of supernatural origin. Such creatures are automatically the enemies of the Coalition and possibly the Federation of Magic if they refuse to align with them - making these Hindrances common among such beings.
• Whatever else your imagination can come up with!

Power Stunts!: The use of Power Stunts are part of the available options for these kinds of characters. Game Masters and Players alike are encouraged to utilize this for exciting action and compelling stories.
Internalized Power: Gear seems like an easy way to expand the impact of a super powerful character like this, but realistically most gear simply can't keep up with such characters, but that is not true of all such characters. Gear choices should support utility needs (stun and smoke grenades, for example) to deal with situations your powers may not be helpful for.