The Apok

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pkitty
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The Apok

Post by pkitty » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:30 pm

Hi, I was hoping to get some feedback on this iconic framework that I converted from Wormwood. If you're not familiar with the O.C.C., that's fine; my biggest concern is whether it's balanced compared to existing frameworks. Based on a discussion over in this thread, it comes to around 37-41 build points total, depending on how you value a few of the fuzzier things.

Apok

It is sadly all too common for a holy warrior to lose their faith and fall to darkness, and vanishingly rare for one of these fallen to find their inner light and come back to the side of righteousness and good. But an Apok has done so, and walking both paths gave them an unbreakable spirit and the strength to eradicate True Evil wherever it is found, through a combination of faith and martial prowess. Every Apok has a unique, hand-made mask — a demonic visage that they wear to remind themselves of what they once were. Despite the distrust and discomfort it causes, an Apok never removes it; acknowledging what they were is part of atoning for past sins.

Apoks make two Hero's Journey rolls on any table other than Cybernetics or Psionics. They begin with normal Starting Gear.

Apok Abilities and Bonuses
  • Enhanced Attributes: An Apok gains one die type to Agility, Spirit, Strength, and Vigor.
  • Enhanced Speed: Apoks double their base Pace and move twice the normal distance, horizontally and vertically, when Jumping.
  • Indomitable Will: Apoks know what can happen when they lose control, and will never let that happen again. They have +8 on Fear checks and +8 to resist intimidation, mind control, and possession.
  • Holy Power: Apoks start with the Edges Arcane Background (Miracles), Master of Magic, Power Points (15 PPE total), and Rapid Recharge, along with the Faith skill at d6. They start with detect/conceal arcana and protection, both of which have the Range (Self) limitation and may be activated as innate abilities, along with three more powers of their choice.
  • Righteous Warrior: Apoks have Fighting and Occult at d6 and the Champion Edge. As well, when facing supernaturally evil creatures, their attacks are always treated as Mega-Damage.
  • Terrifying to Evil: Supernaturally evil creatures must make a Fear Check at -2 when encountering the Apok. Even Fearless ones must roll, but at +2 instead of -2. Those who are both Fearless and Mindless are immune.
Apok Complications
  • Atonement Mask: The Apok's mask is a holy artifact, immune to damage and impossible to remove unless the Apok wills it. However, if they take it off (willingly), they immediately lose all abilities and bonuses above! Just putting the mask back on will not restore them; it must be worn for at least as long as it was off (minimum one hour) before the bonuses return. Note that the Apok may push the mask up to eat, use a breathing tube, etc., as long as it's still partially on their face and easily visible.
  • Cybernetics: As usual, Apoks suffer -1 to Faith per point of Strain.
  • Dedicated: Apoks start with three Major Hindrances — Shamed (something horrible that they did after falling from grace), Vow (Eradicate supernatural evil), and player's choice of either Code of Honor (principles first) or Heroic (kindness first).
  • Disturbing: People looking upon the mask instinctively realize that this is someone who has done great evil and whose redemption is uncertain (many Apoks fall back into their unholy ways, unfortunately). A masked Apok takes -1 to Persuasion rolls and reactions to them start one level worse (e.g., Uncooperative rather than Neutral, for a typical human Apok).

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Venatus Vinco
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Re: The Apok

Post by Venatus Vinco » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:10 pm

Looks good,

A lot of our members replied to your post on the PEG Forum so don't think we're ignoring you!

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pkitty
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Re: The Apok

Post by pkitty » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:25 pm

Heh, of course not! At the time that I posted this, I hadn't really received any feedback over there, and at any rate it doesn't hurt to reach out to a broad audience. :)

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Tribe of One
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Re: The Apok

Post by Tribe of One » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:47 pm

It looks like Ndreare/Rob linked to my SWD Apok on the PEG forum, so I won't link it again. You're in the neighborhood of what I'd do for SWADE, but maybe a little short on the points calculation -- the apok, in my mind, is more of a warrior with an AB, as opposed to a primary caster (who tend to have an AB + abilities that enhance casting). Cyber-Knight/Crazy/Etc are better comparisons, so I'd shoot for a range of low- to mid-40s in terms of points.

Ignore Deskepticon and just go with Fear immunity = "functionally immune" with a +8 is less FFF than just going with immune. I also like Adept, either as a bonus Edge or innate ability like the C-K.

The other thing I'd been thinking about, maybe as an Iconic Edge, would be an ability to let them add Spirit to damage (or Faith to AP?) against supernatural evil; a la the C-K Edge that boosts psi-sword damage. Makes them more competitive (melee is pretty suboptimal in SWADE otherwise) and is in line with the source material, where they could kill demons with a non-magical spoon.
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pkitty
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Re: The Apok

Post by pkitty » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:05 pm

Tribe of One wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:47 pm
It looks like Ndreare/Rob linked to my SWD Apok on the PEG forum, so I won't link it again.
No, he just linked to your builds for the canon classes! I'd love to see your SWD version.
You're in the neighborhood of what I'd do for SWADE, but maybe a little short on the points calculation -- the apok, in my mind, is more of a warrior with an AB, as opposed to a primary caster (who tend to have an AB + abilities that enhance casting).
I think this build could technically be a primary caster if the player wanted. Granted, there are no abilities that synergize specifically with the AB, so it's no LLW or MM, but if one wanted to focus entirely on miracles and keep melee to a minimum, it'd be doable. It'd be more of a M.A.R.S. style "primary caster" if anything. I think I might feel more comfortable beefing up the combat focus if I pared back the casting just a bit, maybe removing Rapid Recharge.
Cyber-Knight/Crazy/Etc are better comparisons, so I'd shoot for a range of low- to mid-40s in terms of points.
I was actually using the Crazy for comparison, as it seemed the closest play style by far, though with the intent to go a bit higher on points because I know the Crazy is a weak build. I admit I'm a bit paranoid about accidentally power-creeping over canonical builds with homebrew ones; it's easy to get excited and make a power-gamer's wet dream. :)
Ignore Deskepticon and just go with Fear immunity = "functionally immune" with a +8 is less FFF than just going with immune.
I could go either way. I think I'll ask my group which they prefer and go with majority rule here.
I also like Adept, either as a bonus Edge or innate ability like the C-K.
If I dropped Rapid Recharge, I could add Adept and Holy Warrior (the original build had it but then I took it off to save points), and the ability below, without worry. That'd be about +4 extra build points total.
The other thing I'd been thinking about, maybe as an Iconic Edge, would be an ability to let them add Spirit to damage (or Faith to AP?) against supernatural evil; a la the C-K Edge that boosts psi-sword damage. Makes them more competitive (melee is pretty suboptimal in SWADE otherwise) and is in line with the source material, where they could kill demons with a non-magical spoon.
That's a really good idea actually. The ability to add Spirit to all melee attacks (instead of just a psi-sword) is powerful, but restricting it to just against supernatural evil keeps it balanced.

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Re: The Apok

Post by Tribe of One » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:34 am

Here's the SWD version https://savagerifts.com/sr/viewtopic.php?p=20422#p20422 I did. It does a few things that I wouldn't necessarily do again -- mainly, giving them the Adept-like free action casting with powers other than pure self-buffs. Restricting Mega spells to the handful linked to the mask was an attempt to hew closer to the canon (where they lost their Wormwood-based holy spells when away and only kept a few powers tied to the mask) and was a little too fiddly for Savage Worlds. Probably easiest to just give them the Mystic spell list and maybe a special "Hellfire" power modifier.
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pkitty
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Re: The Apok

Post by pkitty » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:48 am

Yeah, it seemed like especially in the new edition there's a larger attempt to treat innate abilities as "innate ability activated powers," so that's what I tried to do -- treating the MDC boost as innate protection, the sense evil as innate detect arcana, etc. And it was in service of that approach that I gave them edges like Power Points and Rapid Recharge, despite it not fitting the original concept . . . which I admit may have shifted the "feel" of the class a bit too far from "martial warrior."

Now that I think about it, I think giving them so many starting powers was the biggest sin there. I think in addition to the changes proposed, I might drop two powers and replace them with Nerves of Steel. Let me mention this over on the PEG forums and to my group, see what's said.

As for a Hellfire trapping, the whole point of it is that it starts fires but otherwise whether someone is vulnerable to it depends on whether they're vulnerable to holy attacks, so that's probably a wash -- it's really just a reskinned "holy light" trapping. But it's worth adding for flavor.

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Re: The Apok

Post by Probe » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:09 am

The problem with the Apok is the mask is a Wormwood Symbiot that dies if it is off Wormwood for more than 48 hours and then turns to dust.
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Tribe of One
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Re: The Apok

Post by Tribe of One » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:18 pm

Probe wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:09 am
The problem with the Apok is the mask is a Wormwood Symbiot that dies if it is off Wormwood for more than 48 hours and then turns to dust.
It's not that simple. There's some conflicting text (surprise!) in various rulebooks and rulings, but there are canon examples of apoks whose masks did not die after moving (permanently) to Rifts Earth. Per canon, they do lose their other Wormwood-based casting, but would keep any power anchored in the mask or that was part of their physical transformation.

But, beyond the fact the KS and Palladium are not exactly consistent ... it's generally best not to be too slavish to the prior rules when savaging things. If one option lets people play apoks and the other doesn't, best to go with option A.
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pkitty
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Re: The Apok

Post by pkitty » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:24 pm

Yeah I was definitely trying to capture the spirit here, but in a way that fits Savage Rifts above all else.

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