Melting Minds: If your roll craps out when resisting a mental power from a mind melter you suffer shaken.High Command wrote:Cause I forgot they can do it as a free action? I'll update it.
I might go with True Domination; though Psychic Enslavement sounds nice too. Anyone else have a preference?
If you can suggest a rewrite that maintains the intent (extras that roll a 1 and wild cards that crit fail are affected), then I not only welcome it, I'm begging for it. PLEASE.
Mind Melter Redux
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Under Speed of thought, the 3rd line says: "There is an additional -2 per rank that the power is over the rank of the Mind Melter."
There is an addition -2 what? To the roll to activate the power? The amount of power points spent?
Meditation:
If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and any attacker is considered to be helpless.
I assume that the attacker treats the VICTIM as helpless? The wording makes it sound like the attacker is helpless.
There is an addition -2 what? To the roll to activate the power? The amount of power points spent?
Meditation:
If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and any attacker is considered to be helpless.
I assume that the attacker treats the VICTIM as helpless? The wording makes it sound like the attacker is helpless.
Heracles
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Some wording got lost - updated. It's to the psionics roll.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Not sure myself if this is to fast or just right. I am considering it in combination with Ex Rapid Recharge, this would be 8 power points in 10 minutes. Worth thinking on.High Command wrote:Meditation [Iconic]
Requirements: Novice, Mind Melter, Spirit d8+
Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 4 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and any attacker is considered to be helpless.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------4/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------8/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------16/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------48/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Exceptional RR is already an outlier. I see no reason to plan the median for the outlier.
None--------------------4/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------8/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------16/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------48/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Exceptional RR is already an outlier. I see no reason to plan the median for the outlier.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
To you maybe *waggles eyebrows*Radecliffe wrote:Domination is a little less pervy.
I fixed that wording in Meditation about the MM being Helpless
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I would argue that in Game Design you always design for the outliers. However at x2 it would be too low, while at x4 it feels high, so perhaps x3?High Command wrote:Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------4/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------8/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------16/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------48/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Exceptional RR is already an outlier. I see no reason to plan the median for the outlier.
Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------3/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------6/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------12/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------36/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Still a very respectable rate.
PS: Where the heck is Freemage on this one?
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Hell, I was thinking "Why not x5?" (The idea being that with Exceptional, that gives a 1/min recharge rate, which is wonderfully easy to track.)RFT wrote:I would argue that in Game Design you always design for the outliers. However at x2 it would be too low, while at x4 it feels high, so perhaps x3?High Command wrote:Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------4/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------8/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------16/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------48/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Exceptional RR is already an outlier. I see no reason to plan the median for the outlier.
Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------3/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------6/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------12/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------36/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Still a very respectable rate.
PS: Where the heck is Freemage on this one?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Woot, I'm in
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Freemage hits the easy button.Freemage wrote:Hell, I was thinking "Why not x5?" (The idea being that with Exceptional, that gives a 1/min recharge rate, which is wonderfully easy to track.)RFT wrote:I would argue that in Game Design you always design for the outliers. However at x2 it would be too low, while at x4 it feels high, so perhaps x3?High Command wrote:Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------4/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------8/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------16/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------48/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Exceptional RR is already an outlier. I see no reason to plan the median for the outlier.
Edge----------------With Meditation -------------------- Without Meditation
None--------------------3/hr----------------------------------------1/hr
Rapid Recharge-------6/hr----------------------------------------2/hr
Imp. RR----------------12/hr---------------------------------------4/hr
Excpt RR---------------36/hr---------------------------------------12/hr
Still a very respectable rate.
PS: Where the heck is Freemage on this one?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Okay, this is my last thought, I think:
Add Mentalist to the Edges possible to take for Psionic Specialization. And then make it a pre-req for Mind Melting.
Add Mentalist to the Edges possible to take for Psionic Specialization. And then make it a pre-req for Mind Melting.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Mentalist is a professional edge, so its not applicable for Psionic Specialization. There are plenty of options there. I don't mind adding it as a prereq for Mind Melting - but I don't see why. I might make it a *BIT* easier to get the raise, but that's about it. The prereqs on Melting of the Minds is already significant.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
RE: Melting of the Minds
This would be the most obnoxious edge ever for a Mind Melter who worked in infiltration. You try to puppet some guy and send him end, but accidentally set him screaming in fear and those around him? I imagine it will only be popular with combat type.
This would be the most obnoxious edge ever for a Mind Melter who worked in infiltration. You try to puppet some guy and send him end, but accidentally set him screaming in fear and those around him? I imagine it will only be popular with combat type.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
That was part of the reason I prefer it as an Edge, rather than Iconic ability (but still think it would be even better as a Mind Melter-only trapping).RFT wrote:RE: Melting of the Minds
This would be the most obnoxious edge ever for a Mind Melter who worked in infiltration. You try to puppet some guy and send him end, but accidentally set him screaming in fear and those around him? I imagine it will only be popular with combat type.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Yeah, it's for reinforcing that primal fear people have of Mind Melters, certainly.RFT wrote:RE: Melting of the Minds
This would be the most obnoxious edge ever for a Mind Melter who worked in infiltration. You try to puppet some guy and send him end, but accidentally set him screaming in fear and those around him? I imagine it will only be popular with combat type.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Anyone have an issue with starting voting a day early?
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
Re: Mind Melter Redux
No issues here.High Command wrote:Anyone have an issue with starting voting a day early?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Oh man this sounds like one of those schemes they used to come with to manipulate the polls.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Gopher it.High Command wrote:Anyone have an issue with starting voting a day early?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
If you vote Needs work I need feedback.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I voted disapprove. I can buy into everything on the list except the Meditation at 5x recovery.
If you want you can accept it and pass with my disapproval (looks like it will pass anyways) or separate out that edge and I will vote approved.
If you want you can accept it and pass with my disapproval (looks like it will pass anyways) or separate out that edge and I will vote approved.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
There are a couple options:
1. Meditation and Rapid Recharge are incompatible. Take one or the other.
2. You can take both but only the best rate applies.
3. They can interact but at a reduced rate.
1. Meditation and Rapid Recharge are incompatible. Take one or the other.
2. You can take both but only the best rate applies.
3. They can interact but at a reduced rate.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Yes, it struck me as off that when I commented that x4 was too much it suddenly popped up to x5 for the final version.
I could see saying it does not sync with Exceptional Rapid Recharge and instead allows recovering 2/5 minutes or something.
I could see saying it does not sync with Exceptional Rapid Recharge and instead allows recovering 2/5 minutes or something.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
The reason a multiplier was chosen was so that we did not have to mess with the recharge rates at all. They had an out of combat multiplier that allows them to be completely helpless and recover quickly. This is NO different than spellcasters recharging off a ley line out of combat quickly. In fact this merely puts Mind Melters up there with them.Radecliffe wrote:There are a couple options:
1. Meditation and Rapid Recharge are incompatible. Take one or the other.
There is NO rate for meditation except one based on their rate of recovery. Sure if you go big into recovery you end up recovering it FAST. But to do so you have to be HELPLESS. As Rob proved in the 99's current encounter, there is no such thing as a safe time, there is just waiting for the next scene.Radecliffe wrote:2. You can take both but only the best rate applies.
As it is a multiplier, this also makes no sense.Radecliffe wrote:3. They can interact but at a reduced rate.
As to why it's at x5, Soren suggested it, and no one objected to it. The final version has not changed, and the changelog has been very studiously upkept, specifically so you don't have to pick through the entire thing for what has changed. I for one don't enjoy planning a build around extreme uses of edges. With this, a Mind Melter could get away WITHOUT a rapid recharge edge entirely. And given it is an ICONIC edge, it SHOULD have more kick than base edges. That is the point of them.
But I'm open to suggestions, in spite of all that. As long as those options are not: "Just use Rapid Recharge" (that's not the point) or "give some barely incremental bonus" (it's an Iconic edge, not a power edge)
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
As a note I objected to Freemage's rate and proposed x3.
As a GM, if I am running an attrition scenario I can control access to ley line. I cannot control access to Meditation. The players just say you meditate, no matter what if battle happens I will use my turn to wake you first. The MM is awakened as a shaken hero and just Spirit rolls out of it. No problem, but also completely vetoing that attrition scenario.
IMHO Recovering 1 Power point per minute is just absurd even if it does require a Iconic edge to achieve.
As a GM, if I am running an attrition scenario I can control access to ley line. I cannot control access to Meditation. The players just say you meditate, no matter what if battle happens I will use my turn to wake you first. The MM is awakened as a shaken hero and just Spirit rolls out of it. No problem, but also completely vetoing that attrition scenario.
IMHO Recovering 1 Power point per minute is just absurd even if it does require a Iconic edge to achieve.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
As a counterbalance to PPE users sucking down ley lines, I think the x5 from Meditation is fine. But I also see Rob's issue with regard to an attrition scenario.
Spit-balling some ideas here, but what if ...
[*]MMs had to spend an extended period of time centering themselves before actually entering Meditation? Say, 30-60 minutes before the increaased rate kicks in? That way it's not as simple as, "I'm gonna sit here in the corner every spare chance I get and top off."
[*]Increase the penalty for coming out of Meditation, and especially coming out early. Maybe a level of Fatigue that can't be removed, lasts 1 minute when topped off/coming out of Meditation purposefully, 10 minutes when Meditation is disrupted?
EDIT: I've voted "Needs Work" although it's fairly minimal:
[*]In addition to the above, I think the Psychic Body Field Edge is a bit over the top, adding a total of +4 to Toughness (2 is Armor, so bypassable with AP). That's a lot more than any other Edge, even if it is contingent on activating a power. I'd walk it back a fair bit, either: Increase the bonus from the armor power by +2 and half of the total counts as Toughness, so not subject to AP; or, no increase, but the entire bonus granted by the armor power counts as Toughness.
(FWIW, I think the barrier Edge is fine.)
Spit-balling some ideas here, but what if ...
[*]MMs had to spend an extended period of time centering themselves before actually entering Meditation? Say, 30-60 minutes before the increaased rate kicks in? That way it's not as simple as, "I'm gonna sit here in the corner every spare chance I get and top off."
[*]Increase the penalty for coming out of Meditation, and especially coming out early. Maybe a level of Fatigue that can't be removed, lasts 1 minute when topped off/coming out of Meditation purposefully, 10 minutes when Meditation is disrupted?
EDIT: I've voted "Needs Work" although it's fairly minimal:
[*]In addition to the above, I think the Psychic Body Field Edge is a bit over the top, adding a total of +4 to Toughness (2 is Armor, so bypassable with AP). That's a lot more than any other Edge, even if it is contingent on activating a power. I'd walk it back a fair bit, either: Increase the bonus from the armor power by +2 and half of the total counts as Toughness, so not subject to AP; or, no increase, but the entire bonus granted by the armor power counts as Toughness.
(FWIW, I think the barrier Edge is fine.)
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Sorry, I didn't think I'd have to spell it out in explicit detail or perhaps you just assume I didn't read the rest of the post, I don't know.
Base Mediation Rate x10
w/ Rapid Recharge x8 (16 per hour)
w/ Imp Rapid Recharge x6 (24 per hour)
w/ Exceptional Rapid Recharge x4 (32 per hour)
Again with option 2 you can recharge normally at whatever level of Rapid Recharge you have or even faster with meditation but in this case the combined bonus is stepped down at higher levels to control the level of overclocking without making the base level too anemic.
Using suggested option 1 the multiplier is determined for the recharge rate while meditating and out of meditation you recharge at 1 ISP per hour. While meditating you would recharge at 5 ISP per hour, 10 per hour, 300 per hour, etc. Whatever the rate ends up being determined to be. However, if you take mediation then you can't take the Rapid Recharge edges. This allows the recharge rate to be tailored to the desired level for Meditation without worrying about overclocking gone wild when used in combination the Rapid Recharge edges.High Command wrote:The reason a multiplier was chosen was so that we did not have to mess with the recharge rates at all. They had an out of combat multiplier that allows them to be completely helpless and recover quickly. This is NO different than spellcasters recharging off a ley line out of combat quickly. In fact this merely puts Mind Melters up there with them.Radecliffe wrote:There are a couple options:
1. Meditation and Rapid Recharge are incompatible. Take one or the other.
Pretty much the same as option 1 but if you go into both Meditation and one or more levels of rapid recharge you can recover ISP quicker using the Recharge edges normally or FAST using Mediation which again can be set at a higher multiplier without worrying about overclocking too much from combining the two.There is NO rate for meditation except one based on their rate of recovery. Sure if you go big into recovery you end up recovering it FAST. But to do so you have to be HELPLESS. As Rob proved in the 99's current encounter, there is no such thing as a safe time, there is just waiting for the next scene.Radecliffe wrote:2. You can take both but only the best rate applies.
I don't understand why you are saying it makes no sense. Of course it is a multiplier and so what? It doesn't need to be linear.As it is a multiplier, this also makes no sense.Radecliffe wrote:3. They can interact but at a reduced rate.
Base Mediation Rate x10
w/ Rapid Recharge x8 (16 per hour)
w/ Imp Rapid Recharge x6 (24 per hour)
w/ Exceptional Rapid Recharge x4 (32 per hour)
Again with option 2 you can recharge normally at whatever level of Rapid Recharge you have or even faster with meditation but in this case the combined bonus is stepped down at higher levels to control the level of overclocking without making the base level too anemic.
As to why it's at x5, Soren suggested it, and no one objected to it. The final version has not changed, and the changelog has been very studiously upkept, specifically so you don't have to pick through the entire thing for what has changed. I for one don't enjoy planning a build around extreme uses of edges. With this, a Mind Melter could get away WITHOUT a rapid recharge edge entirely. And given it is an ICONIC edge, it SHOULD have more kick than base edges. That is the point of them.
But I'm open to suggestions, in spite of all that. As long as those options are not: "Just use Rapid Recharge" (that's not the point) or "give some barely incremental bonus" (it's an Iconic edge, not a power edge)
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I honestly beieve the balance for not being able to juice up is the fact that they have double the ISP of PPE users.Tribe of One wrote:Spit-balling some ideas here, but what if ...
[*]MMs had to spend an extended period of time centering themselves before actually entering Meditation? Say, 30-60 minutes before the increaased rate kicks in? That way it's not as simple as, "I'm gonna sit here in the corner every spare chance I get and top off."
[*]Increase the penalty for coming out of Meditation, and especially coming out early. Maybe a level of Fatigue that can't be removed, lasts 1 minute when topped off/coming out of Meditation purposefully, 10 minutes when Meditation is disrupted?
However, What if...
Meditation [Iconic]
Requirements: Novice, Mind Melter, Spirit d8+
You Mind Melter has learned how to tap into and draw energy even from outside his own body. While Meditation the character may draw from a Ley Line in the same manner as a character who uses PPE as an action. However, unlike other arcane characters you may not super charge to higher than your normal ISP limit.
This would close the hypothetical gap. Although the fact that psionic characters by default get double the power points from PPE users which the PPE users can get by drawing up.
, and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Re: Meditation
I'm okay with enforcing limits on coming in and out to enforce attrition. Of course as a GM, I (and as a player, I'd expect Rob) would say "you can't meditate right now. Too much is going on in your head. There's simply too much at play. You try and can't center yourself. One, that signals to the players that we ARE in an attrition scenario, and two, it gives an in to a nice bit for the player to roleplay. I've been told too much is going on in my head to meditate. Hmm, I wonder what that could be. OOH, I see, I've had a flashback and I'm reliving it. Maybe if I add a mini-interlude my GM will give me an extra benny at the end of this.
If you want, I could easily add some language in there to reinforce this. This leaves the x5 recovery, but also makes it a lot harder to meditate. Note this is an Iconic edge, so it should be better than a rapid recharge edge.
re: Psychic Body Field
I'm amused that you don't think TK Forcefield needs work and you do think the armor version, that gives the same basic bonuses (+4 toughness), does need work. But I digress. I actually originally had Barrier at an additional +6, but walked it back.
I'm okay with enforcing limits on coming in and out to enforce attrition. Of course as a GM, I (and as a player, I'd expect Rob) would say "you can't meditate right now. Too much is going on in your head. There's simply too much at play. You try and can't center yourself. One, that signals to the players that we ARE in an attrition scenario, and two, it gives an in to a nice bit for the player to roleplay. I've been told too much is going on in my head to meditate. Hmm, I wonder what that could be. OOH, I see, I've had a flashback and I'm reliving it. Maybe if I add a mini-interlude my GM will give me an extra benny at the end of this.
If you want, I could easily add some language in there to reinforce this. This leaves the x5 recovery, but also makes it a lot harder to meditate. Note this is an Iconic edge, so it should be better than a rapid recharge edge.
- Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 5 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.
Just as not ever magic user is near a ley line, Mind Melters cannot simply meditate in any situation. Moving vehicles are horrible for meditation, as is an environment where a lot is going on. Meditation is meant to be a trance that relaxes the mind and body, but it is not simply something one gets into. It's as much about quieting the body as it is quieting the mind. As such you cannot do this while you have wound or fatigue modifiers, and you must be able to sit or lay comfortably for an extended period of time. Further a GM can rule that too much is going on in your head or environment to get into the enhanced state of relaxation required.
re: Psychic Body Field
I'm amused that you don't think TK Forcefield needs work and you do think the armor version, that gives the same basic bonuses (+4 toughness), does need work. But I digress. I actually originally had Barrier at an additional +6, but walked it back.
- Yet another powerful manifestation of will and telekinetic strength, the Psychic Body Field provides the psionic with increased protection that makes the entire bonus from the armor power one of toughness. The greater armor power has two armor added, half of which counts as toughness, and the rest counts as M.D.C. armor. The Mind Melter simply activates her armor or greater armor power, summoning the Psychic Body Field.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Toss in a minimum meditation length and I would buy into this uber powerlessness.
Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 5 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.
Just as not ever magic user is near a ley line, Mind Melters cannot simply meditate in any situation. The process of meditation typically involves about five minutes or preparation before it begins. Moving vehicles are horrible for meditation, as is an environment where a lot is going on. Meditation is meant to be a trance that relaxes the mind and body, but it is not simply something one gets into. It's as much about quieting the body as it is quieting the mind. As such you cannot do this while you have wound or fatigue modifiers, and you must be able to sit or lay comfortably for an extended period of time. Further a GM can rule that too much is going on in your head or environment to get into the enhanced state of relaxation required.
Note: Added the sentence - The process of meditation typically involves about five minutes or preparation before it begins.
Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 5 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.
Just as not ever magic user is near a ley line, Mind Melters cannot simply meditate in any situation. The process of meditation typically involves about five minutes or preparation before it begins. Moving vehicles are horrible for meditation, as is an environment where a lot is going on. Meditation is meant to be a trance that relaxes the mind and body, but it is not simply something one gets into. It's as much about quieting the body as it is quieting the mind. As such you cannot do this while you have wound or fatigue modifiers, and you must be able to sit or lay comfortably for an extended period of time. Further a GM can rule that too much is going on in your head or environment to get into the enhanced state of relaxation required.
Note: Added the sentence - The process of meditation typically involves about five minutes or preparation before it begins.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Uh, they don't? Sure a major psionic get +10 ISP vs +5 PPE from the power points edge but a Mind Melter or a burster starts at +5 ISP over a LLW or a Mystic and they both magic users start with Rapid Recharge on top of their LL power hoovering ability.RFT wrote:I honestly beieve the balance for not being able to juice up is the fact that they have double the ISP of PPE users.Tribe of One wrote:Spit-balling some ideas here, but what if ...
[*]MMs had to spend an extended period of time centering themselves before actually entering Meditation? Say, 30-60 minutes before the increaased rate kicks in? That way it's not as simple as, "I'm gonna sit here in the corner every spare chance I get and top off."
[*]Increase the penalty for coming out of Meditation, and especially coming out early. Maybe a level of Fatigue that can't be removed, lasts 1 minute when topped off/coming out of Meditation purposefully, 10 minutes when Meditation is disrupted?
However, What if...
Meditation [Iconic]
Requirements: Novice, Mind Melter, Spirit d8+
You Mind Melter has learned how to tap into and draw energy even from outside his own body. While Meditation the character may draw from a Ley Line in the same manner as a character who uses PPE as an action. However, unlike other arcane characters you may not super charge to higher than your normal ISP limit.
This would close the hypothetical gap. Although the fact that psionic characters by default get double the power points from PPE users which the PPE users can get by drawing up.
Assuming they both take the same PP edges the Mind Melter is sitting on 60 ISP at legendary vs. 35 for a LLW or Mystic but of course the LLW can still pump up to 105 PPE if he's sitting on a LL.
I don't see the need for a psychic to recover ISP as fast as a magic user on a LL. But at the same time the discrepancy between the two doesn't need to be as big as it is.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Yeah lets drop meditation, the rapid recharge edges do it for me.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Not a fan of a misclaneous iconic edge that can be chosen in the frame work. I would just take it out and not replace it with anything.
I am not a fan of so many MM edges, I would remove completely precognitive maestro, meditation, and the body field edge.
I am not a fan of so many MM edges, I would remove completely precognitive maestro, meditation, and the body field edge.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Eh, barrier is expensive and not too hard to bypass, whereas boosting armor actually makes it harder to kill characters. Balance-wise I'm fine with what you have, but it seems clunky to have it work differently for the normal (all Toughness) and Mega (boost plus half Toughness) versions of the power.High Command wrote:re: Psychic Body Field
I'm amused that you don't think TK Forcefield needs work and you do think the armor version, that gives the same basic bonuses (+4 toughness), does need work. But I digress. I actually originally had Barrier at an additional +6, but walked it back.
I did a little of both of what you said.
- Yet another powerful manifestation of will and telekinetic strength, the Psychic Body Field provides the psionic with increased protection that makes the entire bonus from the armor power one of toughness. The greater armor power has two armor added, half of which counts as toughness, and the rest counts as M.D.C. armor. The Mind Melter simply activates her armor or greater armor power, summoning the Psychic Body Field.
I tend to agree with Pender that 8 Iconic Edges is a bit much, so I'd be fine with paring down the list a bit. I'm also okay with the existence of Meditation, even at x5, as long as it's clear that the GM is expected to rule that some environments aren't conducive, but there needs to be a real risk/penalty to being jolted out early. Shaken is trivially easy to avoid/mitigate.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Fine we'll just dump all the iconic and power edges mentioned (there are 5 iconic and 3 power edges for those unwilling to actually read the tags) and remove both the psychic scent hindrance and the extra edge
cause we can't have MM actually APPROACH LLW in capability can we, let alone what CK or Mystic
Oh and as for too many:
Burster: Flame Blast, Improved Fiery Aura, Improved Fire Mastery, Improved Flame Bolt (Greater Flame Bolt), Rapid Flame Bolt, Read the Flame = 6
Crazy: Gun Nut, Gymnastic Mastery, Off the Handle, Split the Seconds, Sublime Chaos = 5
Cyber-Knight: Cyberkinetic Awareness (Improved Cyberkinetic Awareness, Cyberkinetic Denial), Improved Cyber-Armor (Master Cyber-Armor), Improved Psi-Sword (Master Psi-Sword), Psi-Shield = 8
Juicer: Burn Brighter (Burn for Glory), Burn Past the Pain (Burn for Tomorrow), Freshly Juiced, Gymnastic Mastery, Split the Seconds (Burn Faster) = 7
Version 2.0 is up
cause we can't have MM actually APPROACH LLW in capability can we, let alone what CK or Mystic
Oh and as for too many:
Burster: Flame Blast, Improved Fiery Aura, Improved Fire Mastery, Improved Flame Bolt (Greater Flame Bolt), Rapid Flame Bolt, Read the Flame = 6
Crazy: Gun Nut, Gymnastic Mastery, Off the Handle, Split the Seconds, Sublime Chaos = 5
Cyber-Knight: Cyberkinetic Awareness (Improved Cyberkinetic Awareness, Cyberkinetic Denial), Improved Cyber-Armor (Master Cyber-Armor), Improved Psi-Sword (Master Psi-Sword), Psi-Shield = 8
Juicer: Burn Brighter (Burn for Glory), Burn Past the Pain (Burn for Tomorrow), Freshly Juiced, Gymnastic Mastery, Split the Seconds (Burn Faster) = 7
Version 2.0 is up
out with the old
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Thanks Patrick. Good point. Go for broke on those iconic edges.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Technically none of the Edges should have the Power tag. By definition, any Edge that requires you to be a specific Iconic Framework is an Iconic Edge, per the TLPG.
And changed my vote to approved. And still willing to consider Meditation.
And changed my vote to approved. And still willing to consider Meditation.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
So where are we at with meditation
, and of course update your signatures!
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Propose a new one, because what was there didn't work, obviously. My attempt at providing what should be obvious limits was not enough. I kept the entire 1.xx post above, so you can start from that.
I had them with Power because I was going to ask if we should open them up beyond MM, but I wanted them balanced first.
Here's what was there:
I had them with Power because I was going to ask if we should open them up beyond MM, but I wanted them balanced first.
Here's what was there:
Code: Select all
[b][size=150]Meditation [Iconic][/size][/b]
[u]Requirements[/u]: Novice, Mind Melter, Spirit d8+
Your hero may enter a trance and recover ISP at a rate 5 times greater than normal. While in this trance the Mind Melter is completely unaware of the outside world, can take no actions, and uses all of his concentration, and it lasts until the Mind Melter's I.S.P. pool is completely recovered or to a level decided by the Mind Melter at the start of the trance. If any outside attempt is made to bring the character out of the trance the hero must make a Spirit roll or be Shaken. The Mind Melter can use no powers or abilities while in this trance and is considered to be helpless.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
BTW having created one, I think we should bring back the Power Edge only version of Psionic Specialization and make Speed of Thought an Iconic Edge. But as I doubt I'd get the yes votes for that, we'll go as is.
I'm probably more annoyed at having to build for "power" than concept though. This character feels flat to me, though I'm certain it's more powerful than anything I've created. 6 powers, 30 ISP, Mentalist and Elan. I'd need to sell the armor, buy Medium Ley Line Walker Armor, and a Neural Mace.
I'm probably more annoyed at having to build for "power" than concept though. This character feels flat to me, though I'm certain it's more powerful than anything I've created. 6 powers, 30 ISP, Mentalist and Elan. I'd need to sell the armor, buy Medium Ley Line Walker Armor, and a Neural Mace.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Changed to Approved. We can tackle Meditation later if you care, or abandon it. I am fine with either option.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Sounds good to me. Could we drop sixth sense, and make psionic specialization 2 power edges?High Command wrote:BTW having created one, I think we should bring back the Power Edge only version of Psionic Specialization and make Speed of Thought an Iconic Edge. But as I doubt I'd get the yes votes for that, we'll go as is.
I'm probably more annoyed at having to build for "power" than concept though. This character feels flat to me, though I'm certain it's more powerful than anything I've created. 6 powers, 30 ISP, Mentalist and Elan. I'd need to sell the armor, buy Medium Ley Line Walker Armor, and a Neural Mace.
I would be fine moving SoT to iconic.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Why keep trying to get rid of Sixth Sense? It is like one of THE iconic abilities of a Classic Mind Melter.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
AgreeRadecliffe wrote:Why keep trying to get rid of Sixth Sense? It is like one of THE iconic abilities of a Classic Mind Melter.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
So for psychic body field is half the increase converted to toughness or half the entire benefit?
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
The idea is that armor is 100% converted to Toughness, and greater armor gets 2 added and then half is toughness, and half is MDC armor; Both were options that Tribe gave
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Is sixth sense a power edge?RFT wrote:AgreeRadecliffe wrote:Why keep trying to get rid of Sixth Sense? It is like one of THE iconic abilities of a Classic Mind Melter.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
YesPender Lumkiss wrote:Is sixth sense a power edge?RFT wrote:AgreeRadecliffe wrote:Why keep trying to get rid of Sixth Sense? It is like one of THE iconic abilities of a Classic Mind Melter.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
I have to say that I think this redux looks very good so kudos to you all who put the effort in.
One thing I wanted to suggest is to give energy control a little boost when used by a mind melter.
Right now it says you need to spend telekinesis ISP cost every time you use one of the special abilities. That can get quite expensive for effects that other powers such as burst can do better-but mind melters do not get burst so...
Pyrokinesis (Power)
Requirements: Energy Control: Fire
You no longer need to spend the telekinesis power point cost when using any of the major effects listed under Energy Control
That’s just an example but it should be made more generic to cover all the Kinesis types.
One thing I wanted to suggest is to give energy control a little boost when used by a mind melter.
Right now it says you need to spend telekinesis ISP cost every time you use one of the special abilities. That can get quite expensive for effects that other powers such as burst can do better-but mind melters do not get burst so...
Pyrokinesis (Power)
Requirements: Energy Control: Fire
You no longer need to spend the telekinesis power point cost when using any of the major effects listed under Energy Control
That’s just an example but it should be made more generic to cover all the Kinesis types.
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Hello,
I know I not a player on the site, but I posted these edges over at the G+ Community for the Mind Melter. Since you all are working on some updates for your SavageRifts.com games, I thought I would share them.
Mind Melter Iconic Edges
Mind jabs
Requirements: Mind melter, novice, smarts d6, taunt or intimidate d6
This mind melter can tap into their natural psionic abilities to intimidate, taunt, or trick an enemy. As an action for 1 power point, against a target within line of sight (must be natural line of sight, no binoculars or videos through drones) the mind melter can initiate either a test of wills or a smarts trick, using the mind meters Psionics skills for the opposed skill check. This can be modified by any edges that effects test of wills or smarts tests. A roll of a 1 on the psionics trait roll still causes brain burn.
Mental Judo
Requirements: Mind melter, seasoned, mind jab
When the mind melter succeeds with a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise adds a level of fatigue to the target. This ability cost an additional power point.
Melted Mind
Requirements: Mind melter, veteran, mental judo
When a mind melter succeeds at a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise causes a wound to the target. This ability costs 2 additional power points. This edge cannot be used along with mental judo.
Mental Dervish
Requirements: Mind Melter, heroic, melted mind.
A mind melter with this edge for 2 additional power points can use mind jab against all targets within a medium burst template within Smarts x 10 feet. Applying either mental judo or melted mind would apply the power point cost per target. So a area mental jab with mental judo against 4 targets would most cost 7 power points total.
I know I not a player on the site, but I posted these edges over at the G+ Community for the Mind Melter. Since you all are working on some updates for your SavageRifts.com games, I thought I would share them.
Mind Melter Iconic Edges
Mind jabs
Requirements: Mind melter, novice, smarts d6, taunt or intimidate d6
This mind melter can tap into their natural psionic abilities to intimidate, taunt, or trick an enemy. As an action for 1 power point, against a target within line of sight (must be natural line of sight, no binoculars or videos through drones) the mind melter can initiate either a test of wills or a smarts trick, using the mind meters Psionics skills for the opposed skill check. This can be modified by any edges that effects test of wills or smarts tests. A roll of a 1 on the psionics trait roll still causes brain burn.
Mental Judo
Requirements: Mind melter, seasoned, mind jab
When the mind melter succeeds with a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise adds a level of fatigue to the target. This ability cost an additional power point.
Melted Mind
Requirements: Mind melter, veteran, mental judo
When a mind melter succeeds at a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise causes a wound to the target. This ability costs 2 additional power points. This edge cannot be used along with mental judo.
Mental Dervish
Requirements: Mind Melter, heroic, melted mind.
A mind melter with this edge for 2 additional power points can use mind jab against all targets within a medium burst template within Smarts x 10 feet. Applying either mental judo or melted mind would apply the power point cost per target. So a area mental jab with mental judo against 4 targets would most cost 7 power points total.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Requiring Intimidate or Taunt for Mind Jab just seems like a skill tax to me since you wouldn't actually be using the skill in the first place. Also really not a fan of adding yet another instance where the Mind Melter suffers brain burn.Beacon wrote:Hello,
I know I not a player on the site, but I posted these edges over at the G+ Community for the Mind Melter. Since you all are working on some updates for your SavageRifts.com games, I thought I would share them.
Mind Melter Iconic Edges
Mind jabs
Requirements: Mind melter, novice, smarts d6, taunt or intimidate d6
This mind melter can tap into their natural psionic abilities to intimidate, taunt, or trick an enemy. As an action for 1 power point, against a target within line of sight (must be natural line of sight, no binoculars or videos through drones) the mind melter can initiate either a test of wills or a smarts trick, using the mind meters Psionics skills for the opposed skill check. This can be modified by any edges that effects test of wills or smarts tests. A roll of a 1 on the psionics trait roll still causes brain burn.
Mental Judo
Requirements: Mind melter, seasoned, mind jab
When the mind melter succeeds with a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise adds a level of fatigue to the target. This ability cost an additional power point.
Melted Mind
Requirements: Mind melter, veteran, mental judo
When a mind melter succeeds at a test of wills from Mind Jab, each raise causes a wound to the target. This ability costs 2 additional power points. This edge cannot be used along with mental judo.
Mental Dervish
Requirements: Mind Melter, heroic, melted mind.
A mind melter with this edge for 2 additional power points can use mind jab against all targets within a medium burst template within Smarts x 10 feet. Applying either mental judo or melted mind would apply the power point cost per target. So a area mental jab with mental judo against 4 targets would most cost 7 power points total.
As an alternative I'd suggest making this a power edge using telepathy rather than using skills for a prereq.
Re: Mind Melter Redux
It is a skill tax, but those are the skills required to use the test of wills or smart trick combat options. Perhaps the novice level of this tree allows the mind melter to accomplish those tests at range using the normal skills. Perhaps the next level allows the psionics skill to replace it. I prefer to keep it an iconic edge because it is intended to make match up with the mind melter lore of them killing with a thought unseen.
Beacon
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT!
Friends, Gamers, and Scoundrels.
So VV and I were talking about ARES Protocol and what had impressed him most about the SPC system, and it led to "what the Mind Melter lacks." Cause you know, we both play Mind Melters and we both acknowledge they can truly suck. Anyway, we were close before (I wasn't happy about how things were going with the Mind Melter tbh) so I don't think anyone should have much of an issue with this revision. Except maybe Pender, because Pender is Pender.
Changelog:
Mind Melter v. 2.1
Removed Speed of Thought as a feature and made it a Veteran Iconic Edge. Iconic and Exclusive Power Edges are now 7, equal to the Cyber-Knight.
Added Psionic Mastery (Power Stunts from SPC) and Tricks of the Mind (Power Tricks from SPC) to replace it.
VV asked me to include the full rules for Power Tricks so there'd be no questions about what it does. I've done so below. Moving Speed of Thought from being a feature to being an options means it doesn't have to be something every Mind Melter can do, forcing GMs to account for it. But it becomes "an" option they can get.
And before anyone asks: NOTE!!! House Rules is on Hiatus until some behind the scenes stuff is accomplished. VV will announce when it will open up again. All current topics are still up for debate and vote, however. Also, comment on how it exists, not what has come before please.
So does everyone still approve?
Friends, Gamers, and Scoundrels.
So VV and I were talking about ARES Protocol and what had impressed him most about the SPC system, and it led to "what the Mind Melter lacks." Cause you know, we both play Mind Melters and we both acknowledge they can truly suck. Anyway, we were close before (I wasn't happy about how things were going with the Mind Melter tbh) so I don't think anyone should have much of an issue with this revision. Except maybe Pender, because Pender is Pender.
Changelog:
Mind Melter v. 2.1
Removed Speed of Thought as a feature and made it a Veteran Iconic Edge. Iconic and Exclusive Power Edges are now 7, equal to the Cyber-Knight.
Added Psionic Mastery (Power Stunts from SPC) and Tricks of the Mind (Power Tricks from SPC) to replace it.
VV asked me to include the full rules for Power Tricks so there'd be no questions about what it does. I've done so below. Moving Speed of Thought from being a feature to being an options means it doesn't have to be something every Mind Melter can do, forcing GMs to account for it. But it becomes "an" option they can get.
And before anyone asks: NOTE!!! House Rules is on Hiatus until some behind the scenes stuff is accomplished. VV will announce when it will open up again. All current topics are still up for debate and vote, however. Also, comment on how it exists, not what has come before please.
So does everyone still approve?
POWER TRICKS
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
- Ndreare
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I have very large concerns about Power Mastery and Tricks combining all at once. If that is allowed in game a Mind Melter could end up being useful, and I do not think i would allow that.
I would knock off an elective HJ roll if the current version 2.1 were to pass.
I would knock off an elective HJ roll if the current version 2.1 were to pass.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I was asked to elaborate.
I Approve the changes of 2.1, but suggest going to 4 Heroes Journey instead of 5 with the potency of the Tricks and Power Stunts doing a lot to close the gap.
I Approve the changes of 2.1, but suggest going to 4 Heroes Journey instead of 5 with the potency of the Tricks and Power Stunts doing a lot to close the gap.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I think the "This is a Trick" language should be moved to the header line so it applies to everything like the following.High Command wrote: Trick of the Mind: The Mind Melter may spend 2 ISP to add the following Power Tricks to any power they use that turn..
- • Delay: The victim must trade his current Action Card with the next character lower than him (he can’t trade with a character on Hold). If the victim already acted this round, the trade occurs on the following round unless the target gets the Joker (which negates the effect).
• Lower Defenses: The target’s Parry is lowered by 2 until his next action. This is simply a different way to successfully perform the Trick maneuver (see Savage Worlds), so it does not stack with a regular Trick.
• Lower Trait: One of the target’s attributes and all linked skills suffer a –2 penalty on his next action.
• Setup: Allies get a +2 bonus against the victim until his next action.
• Slow: The target’s Pace is halved on his next action.
Trick of the Mind: The Mind Melter may spend 2 ISP to add the following Power Tricks to any power they use that turn. These are enhanced versions of Tricks and Tests of Will and the modifiers do not stack with other Tricks or Tests of Will. Likewise this trick effect is resisted with a relevant opposed roll.
- • Delay: The victim must trade his current Action Card with the next character lower than him (he can’t trade with a character on Hold). If the victim already acted this round, the trade occurs on the following round unless the target gets the Joker (which negates the effect).
• Lower Defenses: The target’s Parry is lowered by 2 until his next action. .
• Lower Trait: One of the target’s attributes and all linked skills suffer a –2 penalty on his next action.
• Setup: Allies get a +2 bonus against the victim until his next action.
• Slow: The target’s Pace is halved on his next action.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Changed to disapproved. Honestly as much as I want to change it and I have ran villians using the new rules. Wow, 1 MM WC is pretty honcho with the new rules. So much so I had to restrain myself from wiping the floor with 2 different groups. I am good with the core MM.
Field Team Six Bennies
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Yes, that Vampress was kicking our butts.Pender Lumkiss wrote:Changed to disapproved. Honestly as much as I want to change it and I have ran villians using the new rules. Wow, 1 MM WC is pretty honcho with the new rules. So much so I had to restrain myself from wiping the floor with 2 different groups. I am good with the core MM.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I can live with this...does this mean Strong Willed applies?RFT wrote:[These are enhanced versions of Tricks and Tests of Will and the modifiers do not stack with other Tricks or Tests of Will. Likewise this trick effect is resisted with a relevant opposed roll.
To Jon's point, if the original redux is too powerful these changes dial back the power and add utility- well tested utility too given they are from the super power rules.
I am not saying we need to adopt it, but it is fun to think about. Seems like a simple layer to add on to go from vanilla to rocky road.
VV
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
That makes sense.RFT wrote:I Approve the changes of 2.1, but suggest going to 4 Heroes Journey instead of 5 with the potency of the Tricks and Power Stunts doing a lot to close the gap.
VV
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Yes, Strong Will should apply to tricks against Smarts or Spirit. but i would also allow mentalist to apply to the Mind Melters roll.Venatus Vinco wrote:I can live with this...does this mean Strong Willed applies?RFT wrote:[These are enhanced versions of Tricks and Tests of Will and the modifiers do not stack with other Tricks or Tests of Will. Likewise this trick effect is resisted with a relevant opposed roll.
To Jon's point, if the original redux is too powerful these changes dial back the power and add utility- well tested utility too given they are from the super power rules.
I am not saying we need to adopt it, but it is fun to think about. Seems like a simple layer to add on to go from vanilla to rocky road.
VV
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
I just realized that some of these "Tricks" will become available with the Psionics skill at no cost once Black is released. So this will effectively become like paying 2 ISP for a free trick. Is two ISP the right price for that? i think so, but something to consider.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
Well, that assumes Black is going to keep the FG rules intact. There's a LOT of feedback flying at Pinnacle right now, and I suspect it's all being considered heavily. And, for that matter, how that affects SR is going to be another issue.RFT wrote:I just realized that some of these "Tricks" will become available with the Psionics skill at no cost once Black is released. So this will effectively become like paying 2 ISP for a free trick. Is two ISP the right price for that? i think so, but something to consider.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
Lay time we talked about it in the GM hangout, it was pretty clear Black will replace SWD.
Do you think that will change?
Do you think that will change?
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
Re: Mind Melter Redux
I think that Black, when it actually comes out, will replace the SWD. However, I think it's highly likely that the "Changes to Core Rules" in Flash Gordon, which everyone is assuming previews SW Black, will be subject to further review based on player feedback.RFT wrote:Lay time we talked about it in the GM hangout, it was pretty clear Black will replace SWD.
Do you think that will change?
Furthermore, depending on what the actual changes are, integrating those with existing SR products (especially Mega-Powers) will probably require some analysis, though it's possible Pinnacle will mostly leave that up to individual groups, and just stick to the new rules going forward.
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
That is a fair point of view. And Clint and Shane did make it clear that this is a way to test rules before changing the core rules. I guess they've done it before but I don't know the specific examples. However I'm hoping to keep the new test of wills and trick rules.
, and of course update your signatures!
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
"Possible and practical are two comrades who rarely see eye to eye."
Rob Towell
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Re: Mind Melter Redux
This is on hold until Second Wave of Savage Rifts comes out and then we'll look at it.
Tales of the 17th SOG
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.
"In so far as you are concerned, I am the right arm of High Command itself. You are my Fist, be ready to strike at any moment." Major Killian Gregor, 3rd SOG Battalion, CSSD, Chi-Town.