SR 2.0 Playtest Point Breakdowns from Tribe

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Tribe of One
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SR 2.0 Playtest Point Breakdowns from Tribe

Post by Tribe of One » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:06 pm

WIP as I go through. Posted here in case the IF changes, etc., are useful to others.
Old v2/v3 notes

Burster: Loss of HJ rolls limits flexibility – pretty much a one- or two-trick pony. Everything Burns change is good. Fiery Aura nerfs are good, although the damage field reduction combined with the general nerf to melee damage makes it even less appealing than their ranged options. Firewalker nerf is interesting … probably a good thing, but makes them much more vulnerable to vehicle-scale energy weapons, which previously they had a good chance of withstanding. Then we get to Flame Bolt … which costs ISP now? And unless/until you get some Iconic Edges, is worse than an ion rifle? Next.

Combat Cyborg: Generally good with the changes. Loss of HJ and loss of skill chips means less flexibility/potential for variation, and overall nerf to melee makes that less appealing, but tougher, and starting equipment makes them capable of engaging in MD combat and surviving against anything but RA.

Crazy: Significant loss of flexibility with HJ roll nerf. Massive loss of flexibility, defense and offense due to power list changes. Gained Nerves of Steel, which is meh. Nerf to Gun Nut (only works with pistols now) restricts Losing it to pistols and melee (also nerfed), which limits damage potential (compounded by loss of Smite). Loss of defensive powers means that, other than minor stat boosts and healing ability, they’re combat ability is equipment-dependent, and they can’t access cybernetics or powers to improve it (and lack the HJ rolls to try to fill that void with TW items).

Cyber-Knight: Hello god-tier. Loss of flexibility with HJ nerf but … who cares. Lost some interesting power options like barrier, bolt, havoc, pummel that allowed for more of a “Jedi master” concept, but kept all the important combat powers: boost trait, deflection, protection, smite, speed, most of which are free-action casts with minimal cost. On top of that, while most other melee options were nerfed, psi-sword AP was buffed and Iconic edges were kept the same or improved, giving the CK unparalleled melee damage potential.

Dragon: Minor nerfs to melee damage, in line with weapon nerfs. Fire Breath buffed – now a better Burster than the Burster. Free Detect Arcana. Extra Immunities and an extra Wound. Overall, a bit better than before (and comparatively much better, considering the loss of HJ rolls and other nerfs to most other IFs).

Glitter Boy: Loss of flexibility w/HJ nerf, but who cares? That GB armor got buffety-buff-buffed. Loss of MBT on the Boom gun is negligible. Got some free skills and can now use psionics in the GB, although nerfs to the AB: Psionics power list make that generally less useful than going the cybernetics route.

Juicer: Loss of HJ rolls means you’re a combat dude and not much else. New Burn mechanics are good – useful, tempting, but not OP. No longer punished for showing up to the session, which is great. Iconic edges are less powerful (ie. Split the Seconds and changes to the action economy), so you can instead use some edges to grab better gear. Pretty gear-dependent for damage-dealing, and melee isn’t very competitive, but there are some good ranged options.

Ley Line Walker: Standard loss of HJ/variability. Changes to AB: Magic make them vulnerable to disruption/negation, and the (very good) changes to Ley Lines remove the crazy nova potential from before. Those nerfs are easily offset by now gaining Rapid Recharge and 50-100 percent benefit from the Power Points and New Powers edges.

MARS: Compared to other IFs that lost 2-3 HJ rolls, MARS loses 2 F&G rolls, which are worth twice as much, for a loss of 8 Build Points rather than 4-6. Some packages (Body Fixer, City Rat, Headhunter, Merc Soldier, Rogue Scholar, Vagabond, Wilderness Scout) saw minor improvements, in the 2-4 BP range, to offset that, but others were made worse (Operator lost vehicle weapons; PCO lost the extra F&G roll; Psi-Operator’s power list got nerfed; PA and Robot Vehicle Aces are probably a wash (the free skills weren’t needed before). F&G table tweaked strangely – 1) now says “A Mighty Weapon or Armor” but offers only a weapon – and is equal to 1 Edge, instead of 2 like other results; 2) now only gives 1 armor mod instead of 2.

Mind Melters: Hey, these guys aren’t worthless anymore! Only lost 2 HJ rolls, less than most others, have a fantastic power list (especially considering how the core psionic list was neutered), alter aura is cool, more ISP and they reroll all psionic rolls. Top tier, especially considering the losses suffered by other IFs.

Mystic: Loses 3 HJ rolls, feels bad man. Maintains great power list, special trappings nerfed. Loses a Miracles power, a die type of Faith, starting PPE counts as having the Power Points edge (so they can’t take it again at Novice). Now subject to disruption/negation of powers due to changes to AB: Miracles. Overall reduction in power (4-5 build points? on top of HJ loss.

Techno-Wizard: Loses 3 HJ rolls, see above. Lose a die-type of their arcane skill. Massive nerf to Machine Maestro, which no longer applies to Fighting, Shooting or arcane skill rolls.

Altaran: “Altarain” (All-Terrain, really?) needs to be fixed. It would be useful to know how Blind interacts with scopes, Multi-Optics helmets, PA and Robot controls, etc. Penalty to Smarts replaced with penalty to Common Knowledge, gain AB: Psionics and minor penalty to Healing.

D’Norr: Gain moderate penalty to Healing, partial cybernetic resistance, useless horns.

Dog Boy: Bite nerfed (meh). Just give them +2 Notice and save some characters. Gained minor penalty to Healing.

Fennodi: Gain moderate penalty to Healing and +1d Spirit.

Grackletooth: Gained massive penalty to Healing, Leap ability (huh?), bite got nerfed (meh). Non-Standard Build got much worse, -2 now applies to weapons, too, and pays double for equipment and food.

Lyn-Srial: Gained moderate penalty to Healing, Non-Standard Build got much worse, -2 now applies to weapons and equipment, pays triple for armor, and pays double for equipment and food.

Psi-Stalker: Gains Fleet-Footed edge from Fast ability instead of just the Pace and Running boost (which would stack with Fleet-Footed). Why is this different from the Fast that Quick-Flex get (or Fast from SWADE)? Psychic Vampire is less of a hindrance now (can feed at range).

Quick-Flex: Basically unchanged.

Simvan: Riding bonus reduced; Gained Bad Reputation and minor Healing penalty; typo (speak language should be beast friend).

Trimadore: Gained moderate Healing penalty and semi-Cybernetic Resistance; Non-Standard Physiology gets much worse – or seems to; language is inconsistent with Non-Standard Build on other races; Gain an extra d6 skill.

Humans and “ordinary” characters punished
Human Edge needs to get Born a Human
Melee nerfed … except for the CK, who was buffed.
Power lists nerfed …

Filthy Rich allowing PA/RA is awful … Borg in Power Armor, Juicer in Power Armor, CK in Power Armor …

Ranged Superiority: SWADE rearranged the action economy, mostly for the better, although high ROF weapons are now comparatively more powerful. The SR draft doubles down on that, nerfing melee damage (almost) across the board, buffing armor slightly, and making ranged weapons considerably more dangerous (damage/AP increases, but mostly the Mega-Damage/Gritty Damage rule). Exacerbates rocket tag.
Starting Gear changes: Good, including more cash at start.
AB changes/additions: Good.
Ley Line changes & Rituals: Good. The nova potential for PPE users under the old rules was pretty OP.
GM Bennies: 6/8

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Tribe of One
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Points Breakdowns of Iconic Focuses

Post by Tribe of One » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Updating to v.4 (the 8/8 edition) is in progress.
V4 Changelog
Page number references added throughout.

Burster: No change
Combat Cyborg: Gains Nuclear Power Cell. Size notation tweaked.
Crazy: Adds disguise to power list, loses mind reading (which gets added for all psionics via Major Psionic now)
Cyber-Knight: No change (alas)
Dragon: No change
Glitter Boy: No change (but there's a reference to AB: Gifted in Closed Off that needs to be fixed, as Gifted doesn't use ISP anymore)
Juicer: No change
Ley Line Walker: Adds illusion and puppet to power list.
MARS: Gains a second Fortune & Glory roll (Yay!) and keeps the third Heroes Journey roll. PCO chooses both rolls. Power Armor Ace and Robot Vehicle Ace each get back a HJ roll. F&G table is not updated.
Mind Melter: No change
Mystic: No change (despite comments that they'd get Major Psionic and get access to Master Psionic)
Techno-Wizard: No change (alas)

Distinctive D-Bee is changed to "D-Bee" throughout. Outsider changed to "Mutant"

Altara: No change
D'Norr: No change
Dog Boy: Gains Low-Light Vision, and a new negative trait, Oddly Built, that prohibits them from using Glitter Boys and some PA.
Fennodi: No change
Grackletooth: No change
Lyn-Srial: No change
Psi-Stalker: Fast is fixed to be the racial trait, not Flat-Footed edge.
Quick-Flex: No change
Simvan: The beast friend typo was fixed.
Trimadore: No change

Filthy Rich fixed so you can't select power armor or robots (huzzah!)
Imp. Fire Mastery updated
Imp. Flame Bolt clarified/nerfed to apply only to the 2-ISP bolt
Master Cyber-Armor tweaked to require (but stack with) medium and heavy CK armor.
Master Psionic: Adds mind reading and elemental manipulation to base psionic power list.

I haven't gone through gear yet, but noticed on a quick skim that, in addition to Nuclear Power Cell being added to the cybernetics list, Load-Bearing Reinforcement was removed and the weight limit for Implanted Close Combat Weapons was increased, from 1 Strain per 5 lbs to 1 Strain per 25 lbs, which is a great change.

Ignoring starting gear, etc. that all start with. Will include HJ rolls (valued at 2 pts each, as they've most all been nerfed to a single Edge).
Using racial/SPC-style build points, where one ability point/edge/advance = 2 points.
Not charging an extra 2 pts for SPC abilities
* denotes subjective values, which I try to explain

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
AB: Psionics, Major Psionics: 4 pts
Improved power access (vs. basic Psionics list): 3 pts*
Psionics d6: 2 pts
Everything Burns: 2 pts*
Fiery Aura: 10 pts (3 for Level 1 damage field, 4 for stackable +1d6 melee, 3 for armor)
Fire Mastery: 3 pts (similar to Storm)
Firewalker: 12 pts (10 for fire immunity, 1 for elec resist, 1 for laser/ion resist)
Fire Bolt: 4 pts (since it costs ISP, it's basically half the benefit of the Extra Powers edge to get Bolt, with a bonus 1d6 damage)
Enemy (Major)x2: -4 pts
Quirk: -1 pt
Iconic Edge Access: 2* (only a couple are more powerful than standard edges, and most cost ISP)
TOTAL: 41 pts (Leaning lower due to the fact that their immunity is tied to a somewhat rare damage type, and their iconic offensive power is worse/less efficient than a basic laser rifle.)

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
+10 ability points to start: 20 pts
Other cybernetics (valued at ~1.5 points per Strain): 21 pts
(Note, Armor/Toughness is included above and valued that way, rather than SPC values, b/c you can’t stack any more cyber on top of it)
Fleet-Footed: 2 pts
Ignore a level of wounds: 2 pts
Size +1: 1 pt
Upgradeable: 2 pts
MD Punch: 3 pts
All Those Moving Parts: -2* (only significant consequence is no magical healing)
Full Conversion: --
Gray Matter: -- (Accounted for above)
Heavy: -2 pts
Inhuman Appearance: -1 pt
Loss of Dexterity: -2 pts
Malfunctions: -1*
Shadow of Themselves: -1* (effectively restricts them to human only)
Spiritually Numb: -1 (cybernetics would prevent anything but Weird Science anyway)
Improved Starting Gear: 3 pts* (upgraded armor+sidearm, extra melee weapon, extra heavy weapon)
TOTAL: 48 (Gained Nuclear Power Cell, and I miscalculated cyberware before). This is on the high side, but some things like MD punch aren't actually that useful or are easily reproduced with gear. Seems okay.

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
Losing It: 3 pts (Berserk Edge + contingent Fearless; the at-will advantage on Berserk is offset by Getting It Together)
Bio-Regeneration: 3 pts
+6 attributes: 12 pts
Enhanced Endurance: 4 pts
Enhanced Speed: 3 pts (2 points for SPC Speed 1, plus Leaper from SWADE without the damage bonus)
Heightened Senses: 4 pts (2 for Notice, 1 for tracking, 1 for reduced range penalties)
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Psionics d6: 2 pts
Restricted power access: -2 pts* (compared to base Psionic list, they lose Bolt, Entangle, Fly, Havoc, Object Reading and Telekinesis.)
Quick: 2 pts
Uncanny Reflexes: 2 pts
Cybernetics: --
Distinctive Appearance: -1 (Maybe?)
Magic: -1 (only b/c dual ABs are technically now possible)
Needs Action: -2
Unstable Psyche: -2 (to -10 at Legendary)
Improved Starting Gear: 2 pts (Improved sidearm, +rifle and melee weapon)
Iconic Edge Access: 2* (Split the Seconds is good, Gun Nut is nerfed, most others just remove some penalties)
TOTAL: 37, decreasing by 2 each rank until 29 points at Legendary. (I reduced the negative I was assessing for their restricted power list a bit; they're stil losing out on significant attack, mobility and utility powers)

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
Cyber-Armor: 3 pts (valuing “ignores Gritty Damage” as 1, which may be low)
Cyberkinetic Combat: 3 pts (similar to Uncanny Reflexes, works when unaware, but not vs. magic)
First Into Battle: 3 pts (better than normal Pace bonus and stacks with Fleet-Footed)
Inner Light: 2 pts
Fighting d8: 3 pts
Combat Edges x2: 4 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Psionics d6: 2 pts
Improved power access: +2* (lose a few general/mobility powers, gain Deflection, Protection, Smite and Speed)
Innate Powers: 2 pts (all the best combat buffs as free action, still great even if only once a round and incredible synergy with other abilities)
Psi-Sword: 13 pts* (valued as a Melee Attack power that does Str +2d6, AP 8 and Mega Damage; +4 points to account for the rapidly scaling damage when boosting Spirit)
Revered Protectors: 1 pt
Code of Honor: -2 pts
Improved Starting Gear: 2 pts* (upgraded armor, basic rifle)
Iconic Edge access: 4+ pts* (Psi-Sword edges!! and most others are far superior to normal edges)
TOTAL: 48 pts (Still totally OP)

(Agree with VV RE adding a -1 or -2 Limitation to dragon-form-only abilities)
HJ roll x1: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Psionics d4: 1 pt
Armored Hide: 16 pts
Bite/Claws: 7 pts
Expanded Awareness: 3 pts*
Fear: 2 pts
Fire Breath: 7 pts (Ranged Attack Lvl 3 = 6, +2 switchable cone that can only be partly evaded, +1 heavy, -2 dragon only)
Flight: 3 pts
Immune to Fire: 10 pts
Infravision: 1 pt
Inherently Magical: 4+ pts* (Power Points Edge x2 that keeps on giving)
Limited Metamorphosis: 2 pts*
+10 ability points: 20 pts
Nigh-Immortality: 1 pt
Size 6: 10* pts (valuing Size at 1 pt/level as in SWADE, rather than Growth which includes Strength increases, + an arbitrary +5 for the extra Wound, -1 since dragon-only)
Regen + regrow: 3 pts (SWADE)
Tail Lash: 3 pts (Similar to full Claws from SWADE for 4 pts, AOE offset by evasion, -1 dragon-only)
No Cyber: -- (not really worth anything due to AB)
Enemy (Major): -2 pts
Form Limits: -2 pts (worse than the worst version of non-standard build, but avoided in human form)
Hatched: -2 pts (No race = -2 net build points)
Outsider (Major): -2 pts
Territorial: -1 pt
Untested: -1 pts* (mostly loss of Born a Hero benefit)
Very Young: -9 pts (-4 for loss of ability points, -5 for lost skill points)
Loss of Starting Gear: -2 pts*
Iconic Edge access: +4 pts* (some incredible Edges available, worth twice as much as normal advances)
TOTAL: 80 pts
(I’m actually tempted to try to build them as a human with Shapechange -- 10 pts to get a Size 6 dragon’s Strength, Armor, Toughness, etc -- and buy other SPC powers to account for the dragon’s magic and supernatural abilities. A quick back-of-the napkin-calculation makes it look like that would save roughly 30-40 build points, putting them much closer to the 40-50 range.)

GLITTER BOY version 1 (assuming buying PA/RA with Filthy Rich is REMOVED)
(So … a little note on approach here. Rather than calculating the GB as if it were adding on top of a naked human, I’ve calculated how much the armor improves vs. a baseline Savage Rifts character, ie. a human with average stats wearing Huntsman armor. There are arguments for starting from zero, but I think this way better captures the relative IF benefits. I also calculated Strength + Melee damage/Boom Gun as Switchable abilities, since they are mutually exclusive. As with the dragon, I went with either a -1 or -2 limitation on armor-based abilities.)
HJ rolls x2: 4 pts
PA Jock: 2 pts
Electronics d6: 2 pts
Piloting d6: 2 pts
Heroic Legacy: 1 pt
Many Have Fallen: --
GB bonuses
Size 3: 3 pts (SWADE)
+15 MDC armor: 10 pts (rounded up to 12, then -2)
+5 Toughness: 4 pts (-1)
Laser Resistance: 4 pts. (5 -1)
Increased Pace: 3 pts (basically Speed Level 1 and Fleet-Footed, can’t stack with anything, -1)
Jet Boosters: 1 pt
Extra electronics (PA sensors, translator, depth gauge, etc.): 4 pts
*Switchable attacks – Strength and Melee Damage / Boom Gun*
Boom Gun: 25 pts* (18 for a Lvl 5 Ranged Attack with Enhanced Damage, Heavy and Focus – which accounts for the AP, as well as Digging In, Stand By To Fire; +6 for range; -1 requires ammo; +2 pts for the to-hit bonus, -2 for device limit, +2 Switchable. Sonic Boom is a wash)
Str d12+4 and MD punch: 0 (covered by Switchable)
Big and Shiny: -2 pts
Closed Off: -1 pt (basically Restricted Path: PPE)
Digging In/Sonic Boom/Stand By to Fire: 0 (handled above)
Enemies: -4 pts
Highly Technical: -- (already handled with Device discounts)
Total: 58 pts
Alternate calculation WRT Filthy Rich
GLITTER BOY version 2 (assuming buying PA/RA with Filthy Rich is an option)
(Rather than calculating the GB as if it were adding on top of a naked human, I’ve calculated how much the armor improves vs. Triax X-10 Predator Power Armor purchased with Rich/Filthy Rich. No reduction in cost when improving abilities the Predator already had b/c that’s accounted for in the Rich/Filthy Rich discount.)
HJ rolls x2: 4 pts
PA Jock: 2 pts
Electronics d6: 2 pts
Piloting d6: 2 pts
Heroic Legacy: 1 pt
Many Have Fallen: --
Rich/Filthy Rich to buy a Triax Predator: 4 pts
+10 armor: 5 pts
+6 Toughness: 6 pts
Laser Resistance: 4 pts. (5 -1)
+4 Pace, gets Jet Boosters, loses Flight: -2 pts*
Extra electronics (translator, depth gauge, etc.): 2 pts
Boom Gun: 23 pts* (18 for a Lvl 5 Ranged Attack with Enhanced Damage, Heavy and Focus – which accounts for the AP, as well as Digging In, Stand By To Fire; +6 for range; -1 requires ammo; +2 pts for the to-hit bonus, -2 for device limit. Sonic Boom is a wash)
Lost Pulse Cannon, Mini-Missile Launcher: -2 pts
Big and Shiny: -1 pts
Digging In/Sonic Boom/Stand By to Fire: 0 (handled above)
Enemies: -4 pts
Highly Technical: -- (already handled with Device discounts)
Improved Starting Gear: -- (handled by the one leftover HJ roll from Rich/Filthy Rich)
Total: 46 pts

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
Burn: 10* (Who knows? I priced it as a +2 skill bonus to Athletics, Shooting, Fighting, +2 for Soaking and Lucky. Increasing die type and risk of death sort of balance out. Maybe?)
Internal Repair System: 4 pts (Regen is 2, plus another 2 for an implanted IRMSS)
+6 attributes: 12 pts
½ Sleep and +2 vs Fatigue: 2 pts
Quick: 2 pts
Super Speed + 1/2 of Leaper: 3 pts
Fleet-Footed: 2 pts
Brawny: 2 pts
Uncanny Reflexes: 4 pts
Cyber problems/No Magic or Psionics: -2
Death Wish: -1
Drug-Induced Euphoria/Tranquility: -2
Improved Starting Gear: 2 pts* (Improved armor + sidearm, plus rifle and melee weapon)
Iconic Edge Access: 2* (Split the Seconds is good, others vary and often based on Burn)

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
Arcane Academic = 8 points* (Basically a free Power Points edge at every rank, only charging for 3 here; learning powers benefit is at least equivalent to a bonus New Powers edge)
AB: Magic: 2 pts
Power Points: 2 pts
New Powers: 2 pts
Master of Magic: 2 pts
Rapid Recharge: 2 pts
Spellcasting d6: 2 pts
Expanded Awareness: 3 pts*
Ley Line Mastery: 2 pts
Ley Line Rejuvenation: 1 pts
Ley Line Sense: 2 pts
Ley Line Transmission: 2 pts
Ley Line Walking: 2 pts
Disconnected: -1 pt
Enemy: -2 pts
Cybernetics: --
Power List and Power Activators: -- (baseline for AB: Magic)
Iconic Edge Access: 1 pt (pretty tame)
TOTAL = 34 (Doesn’t account for rituals, or incredible synergy of LLW abilities RE wide open power list, PPE boosts, etc.)

HJ rolls x3: 6 pts
F&G roll: 8 pts
4 advances: 8 pts
Base TOTAL: 22 pts


Smarts bonus: 2 pts
Skills: 10 pts
Healer: 2 pts
Reroll: 2 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
TOTAL: 17 pts

Cybernetics: 5 pts (valued at ~1.5 points per Strain, rounded up)
Edges: 6 pts
Skills: 3 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
TOTAL: 15 pts

Edges: 6 pts
Cybernetics: 9 pts* (valued at ~1.5 points per Strain)
Extra Gear: 2 pts*
TOTAL: 17 pts

Skills: 4 pts
Edges: 8 pts
Extra Gear: 4 pts*
TOTAL: 16 pts

Skills: 8 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
Vehicle: 3 pts (basically 1.5 Edges)
TOTAL: 16 pts

Skills: 5 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Choose F&G: 4 pts (I think this is on the high side, but the ability to pick 2 is arguably equal to a third roll that you'd use to trade in something you didn't want. So I'll go with that. I still think they should get to choose HJ results, too.)
Extra Gear: 2 pts
TOTAL: 15 pts

POWER ARMOR ACE (Reflecting change so PA is NOT available via Filthy Rich)
Skills: 4 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Extra Gear: 1pt
Power Armor Suit (Assuming a Samson, since it's more or less middle of the pack. Expect a Predator would be a bit more, Grease Monkey a bit less. Applied a -1 Device limitation on a few abilities, since PA generally get to stay in their armor.)
  • Snag a suit of Gladius armor as a base: 2 pts
    +4 Armor/+1 Toughness: 2 pts (-1 Device)
    +4 Str: 4 pts. (Technically 8, but there are diminishing returns)
    Increased Pace: 1 pts (-1 device)
    Leaping 2.5: 2 pts
    Nimble: 1 pt (1/2 the effect/cost of Uncanny Reflexes, -1 Device)
    Sensor Targeting Suite: 2 pts (-1 Device)
    Size: -- (not really a factor, since it doesn't further increase Toughness or affect targeting)
    Skill Penalties: -5 pts
    No Magic/Restricted Psionics: -2 pts
    Weapon Systems: 3 pts (You could snag a comparable set of weapons with Rich/Filthy Rich, -1 Device)
TOTAL: 19 pts. Alternatively, valuing the PA suit as 3 Edges (Rich, Filthy Rich + the Super Rich that Sean has hinted at) puts them at 15.
Alternate Calculation WRT Filthy Rich
POWER ARMOR ACE (assuming PA is available via Filthy Rich)
Skills: 4 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Power Armor Suit: 4 pts
Lose HJ roll: -2 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt (would be 2, but would have a leftover HJ equipment roll from Filthy Rich)
TOTAL: 11 pts
Skills: 7 pts
Edges: 6 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
TOTAL: 14 pts (Just give them Major Psi or Telemechanics)

Skills: 4 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Lost HJ roll: -2 pts
Robot Vehicle (Assuming a Titan, since it's middle of the road and can be piloted by a 1. Applied a -2 Device limitation on most abilities, since RV operators often have to work outside their armor.)
  • Snag a Mountaineer via Rich as a base: 3 pts
    +4 Armor/+5 Toughness: 5 pts (7, -2 Device)
    Size +3: 1 pt (3 -2 for device)
    Huge: -4* (Stab in the dark, but its a significant detriment against many foes)
    Reduced Speed: -1 pts
    Weapon Systems: 20 pts* (This is nuts to cost out. Per SPC2, the medium railgun comes out in the neighborhood of 25 pts, largely due to the AP, which is wasted against many targets. The other weapon systems and melee are all inferior options that could be covered by Switchable. I ended up just calling it 20 because it's comparable to a Boom Gun -- less juice individually, more versatility.)
TOTAL: 30 pts* (But with similar issues as the GB: The GM is often going to require you to adventure out of your RV, and when you do get to use it, expect extra tough opposition added just for you.) Alternatively, valuing the robot at an arbitrary-ish 10 pts (5 Edges) puts them at 16 pts, which is where some seem to argue they belong.
Alternate Calculation WRT Filthy Rich
ROBOT VEHICLE ACE (assuming RA available via Filthy Rich)
Skills: 4 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Robot Vehicle: 4 pts
Lost HJ rolls: -4 pts
TOTAL: 8 pts
Skills: 14 pts
Edges: 6 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
TOTAL: 21 pts (although multiple Scholar edges, Investigator, etc. are of limited value)

Skills: 4 pts
Gifted: 3 pts
Edges: 6 pts
+1 HJ roll: 2 pts
TOTAL: 15 pts

Vigor: 2 pts
Skills: 12 pts
Edges: 4 pts
Extra Gear: 1 pt
TOTAL: 19 pts

TOTALS: From 36 (Psi-Operator) to 43 (Rogue Scholar), not counting RV Ace (at 52) which has caveats similar to Glitter Boy.[/color]

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
Alter Aura: 3 pts (As a counter to Expanded Awareness, it's more unique but less likely to come into play)
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
New Powers + Power Points: 4 pts
Major+Master Psionics: 4 pts
d6 Psionics: 2 pts
Improved Power Access: 6 pts (All the stuff! Tempted to value this at 8 pts, considering they get damn near the entire list, with none of the drawbacks of AB: Magic)
Expanded Awareness: 3 pts*
Master of Psionics: 6 pts (Again, tempted to go higher. How many Luck/Great Luck/WTF So Much Luck Edges would you need to equal this? Incredible synergy w/power access and loads of ISP.)
Mental Resistance = 2 pts (Resistance 1, but a common type and specifically notes it stacks with similar Edges and powers)
A Little Odd: -1 pt
Cybernetics: --
Enemies: -2
Feared: -2
TOTAL = 31 (Which fails to capture the incredible synergy, especially when you can basically just max out a single skill -- Psionics -- and do ALL THE THINGS. Undetectable, Invisible Puppet-Master with free rerolls.)

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
Mystic Power Modifiers: 3 pts
AB: Miracles: 2 pts
Master of Magic: 2 pts
Power Points: 2 pts
d6 Faith: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
d6 Psionics: 2 pts
Modified power access: +2 pts* (lose a lot from base Psionic list, but gain two great ones -- Illusion, Puppet -- and synergizes well with what's available on Miracles list. )
Cosmic Confluence: 4 pts (A lot of versatility on this one, similar to Rapid Recharge + Power Points edges)
Expanded Awareness: 3 pts*
Mystic Senses: 5 pts (2 Edges + minor bonus)
Spiritual Channel: 1 pt (very GM-dependent, drawbacks)
Arcane Duality: -- (Just how dual ABs work)
Cybernetics: --
Enemies: -2
Hindrance: -2
Power Activators: --
Can't Master Psionics: -1 pt
TOTAL: 29 pts (Note, Roberson has mentioned removing the "Can't Master Psionics" limitation and giving them Major Psionics to start, which add 3 points to the total and bring them back to parity with other casting classes. Lacks the focused power of MM or LLW, but lots of versatility due to Cosmic Confluence, broad power list)

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
AB: Techno-Wizardry: 2 pts
+1 Power: 1 pt
d6 TW: 2 pts
Custom AB: -- (Just of note, since it's not standard. Robust power list -- pretty much everything the LLW/MM get except Illusion, Puppet and some telepathic powers -- free access to Mega mods, but no doubling of ISP/PPE. No verbal/somatic components like LLW but need tools. Can loan but also lose Gizmos. Overall seems equal, considering Quick Draw no longer needed).
Arcane Machinist: 11 pts (Invent 5 + On the Fly as others have used seems high, but I'll go with it; -1 limited to TW power list, -1 for limited uses/session. The other way to value it would be as a Switchable set of bonus Edges -- New Powers + Power Points x2 -- with limited use and rolls required to activate. I'd value that as around 8 pts total.)
Machine Maestro: 2pts (Half as effective as Telemechanics edge but doesn't require Mind Link to be active. The increased utility with enchanted/TW is negligible, as it specifically doesn't apply to creation)
Required Knowledge: 8 pts
Cybernetics: --
Device Dependent: -- (Assumed as part of AB, and not as much of an obstacle since Quick Draw no longer needed)
Enemies: -2
Gear-Head Geek: -1
Improved Starting Gear: -- (basically equivalent, and tool kit is required for the AB)
Item Creation: -- (Not valuing, as 1) TWs don't get access to Rituals or Meditation like other ABs; 2) It's extremely GM dependent, WRT time and money)
TOTAL = 27 points. (Shy of other casters. Versatile, but stretched thin WRT required skills and action economy.)
GM Bennies: 6/8

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Re: Playtest Draft 3, Tribe's thoughts

Post by Tribe of One » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:34 pm

Arcana & Mysticism Stuff:

DRAGON JUICER (Vs. Standard Juicer, above)
Armored Hide: 6 pts
Dragonborn Senses: 4 pts (3 pts like Expanded Awareness + Infravision)
Healing Factor: +6 pts (Regen 4 + Regrowth, compared to the regular Juicers Regen 1 + built-in IRMSS)
Inherently Magical: 2 pts (Like if you have a Juicer AB: Magic but cybernetics kept them from using powers)
Strength of Dragons: 3 pts (for the extra die of Strength and causing Mega damage with unarmed)
Super Endurance: +21 pts (LOL. 1 pt for disease immunity, 10 each for cold and heat immunity. I think this should actually just be immunity to cold and heat hazards, in which case I’d value it as 1 pt each)
Super Speed: -2 pts (Lose x2 Speed, keep down-sized Leaper)
Dragon Blood is Life: -2 pts (It’s a Major Hindrance, same as Habit, totally dependent on GM)
Dragon-Related Disorder: -2
Enemies: -2 (same most casters)
Weakness: -1 (Similar to Environmental Weakness)
Doesn’t Have Drug-Induced Euphoria/Tranquility: +2

TOTAL: +16 to +34 pts over the core Juicer, depending on the immunities.

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
Fusion Trappings/Synergy: 6 pts (The reroll is a tad more limited than what the Mind Melter gets, and they don’t get it until they spend an Edge for the second element. The bonus damage and Toughness is worth at least an Edge, though)
AB: Gifted: 2 pts
Focus d6: 2 pts
New Powers: 2 pts
Elemental Brotherhood: 2 pts (Automatic detection is powerful, but targets are rare; does it affect True Invisibility?)
Primal Conduit: 2 pts (since its not something normally accessible to Gifted)
Sense Life Sign: 2 pts (Situationally useful)
Variable Trappings: 2 pts (basically Wizard)
No other ABs: -1 pt
Enemies: -2 pts
Cybernetics: -1 (because they can’t take the cyber-psychic edge)
Human Only: -1
Power List: -2 (Still decent, but cut down significantly from wide-open Gifted baseline)
Iconic Edge Access: 2 pts (pretty good)

TOTAL = 19 pts. Pretty low. If AB: Gifted is changed and doesn’t give access to Mega modifiers, but EFs maintain that access, they go up 2 points. If they’re changed to AB: Miracles (which I personally think is more appropriate), but maybe let them ignore Power Activators … probably a wash. Not sure they need to be human-only, and could use some extra oomph: Summoning/binding, or “elemental vitality” (ie. stat boosts) or something to help with PP (either a larger pool or Rapid Recharge, maybe).

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Restricted Power List: -2 (They lose 14 powers off the main psionic list, but get a few that are powerful and on theme)
Psionics d6: 2 pts
Major Psionic: 2 pts
Disrupt Magic: 5 pts (Gonna eye-ball this as roughly 2 Edges for an innate spell that can fire as if On Hold, similar to Imp First Strike, another point covers defaulting to Spirit to ignore the -2 for different traditions)
Greater Arcane Resistance: 10 pts (It's Arcane Resistance x4, and in some cases doesn't apply to your own casting)
Rapid Healing: 3 pts.
Rebellious Spirit: 4 pts
Beneficial Powers Resistance: (Handled above)
Cybernetics: (Not really any worse than standard for ABs)
Enemies: -1
Starting Gear: +1

TOTAL = 30. I think comparing them to other casters is appropriate, so they're just a touch low (and I'm open to arguments that I'm undervaluing Disrupt Magic or Greater Arcane Resistance). Maybe just add an Edge, or something that adds some sort of backlash (Vigor or be Shaken, lose a couple extra PP?) when a hostile caster tries and fails to affect them?

HJ roll x2: 4 pts
Absorb Electricity: 6 pts*
Arc of Life: 4 pts*
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Improved power access (vs. basic Psionics list): 3 pts*
Psionics d6: 2 pts
Electrical Aura: 10 pts (3 for Level 1 damage field, 4 for stackable +1d6 melee, 3 for armor)
Electrical Immunity: 12 pts (10 for electrical immunity, 1 for fire/plasma resist, 1 for laser/p. beam resist)
Electrical Mastery: 3 pts (similar to Storm)
Lightning Bolt: 4 pts (since it costs ISP, it's basically half the benefit of the Extra Powers edge to get Bolt, with a bonus 1d6 damage)
Cybernetics: -1 (since none at all/no Cyber-Psychic Alignment)
Enemy (Major)x2: -4 pts
Glitchy: -2 pts (Roughly twice as bad as All Thumbs)
Iconic Edge Access: 2* (only a couple are more powerful than standard edges, and most cost ISP)
TOTAL: 39 pts (and I might be undervaluing Absorb Elec + Arc of Life. Seems about right/comparable to the Burster.)


Occult d6, Spellcasting d6: 4 pts
AB: Magic: 2 pts
Reduced Power Access + Innate casting: +2 pts (They lose a couple of useful powers like Healing, but get all the great combat powers as Innate abilities)
Edges: 4 pts
Athletics d6, Fighting d6: 2 pts
Shooting d6: 2 pts
Starting Gear: +1 pt (mostly for the sword)

Occult d6, Spellcasting d6: 4 pts
AB: Magic: 2 pts
Edges: 10 pts
Starting Gear: +1 pt (for the Combat Mage armor)
TOTAL: 16 pts

Occult d6, Spellcasting d6: 4 pts
AB: Magic: 2 pts
Edges: 8 pts (I've rated these at 2 pts per Edge, but I am *very* skeptical that item creation Edges are worth that. With automatons off the table for PCs, I'll be surprised if these see much play)
Repair d6: 2 pts
TOTAL: 16 pts

Occult d8, Spellcasting d8: 6 pts (Interestingly, this breaks the unstated rule in TLPG v.3 that no one starts with more than d6 in "class" skills)
AB: Magic: 2 pts
Power Points + New Powers: 4 pts
Other Edges: 4 pts (Getting a head start on One with Magic kind of seems like the only reason to go this route vs. LLW, but I guess it's okay).
TOTAL: 16 pts

Psionics d6: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Increased power access: +3 pts (Considerably better selection from the Mystic lists than stock Psionics)
New Powers: 2 pts
Edges: 6 pts
Skills: 4 pts
Starting Gear: -1
TOTAL: 18 pts (A bit higher, but fine since its a bunch of healing and out-of-combat stuff)

Psionics d6: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Increased power access: +1 pts (Protection + Smite are both great adds)
New Powers: 2 pts
Shooting d6: 2 pts
Edges: 8 pts
Energetic Diminishment: 2 pts (Basically an Edge for a super-modifier)
Telekinetic Enhancement: 1 pt (IF this only applies to modern firearms -- ie. 20th century-style guns from SWADE that shoot bullets -- it's almost entirely a flavor thing, making subpar weapons as good as standard energy options. If it adds dice to anything in the TLPG, its worth considerably more)
Extra Hindrance: -2 pts
Lose 1 HJ roll: -2 pts
TOTAL: 16 pts (Again, assuming TK Enhancement only applies to guns that fire bullets)

Psionics d6: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
Increased power access: +2 pts (Gains lots of useful combat powers, loses some mobility/utility powers)
New Powers: 2 pts
Fighting d6: 2 pts
Edges: 8 pts
Fatigue resistance: 1 pts
Hindrance: -2 pts
Starting Gear: +1 pt (Slight boost for the armor. The psi-pike, besides being non-canonical, requires them to ignore 3 Edges they've invested)
TOTAL: 17 pts (but, some of that's redundant/wasted, like investing in three mutually-exclusive combat modes: unarmed, sword+shield and pike)

Occult d6, Faith d6: 4 pts
AB: Miracles: 2 pts
Increased Power Access: +2 (Lots of extras from the LLW list)
Healing d6, Survival d6: 4 pts
Edges: 6 pts (Again, I'm skeptical about the worth of the crafting Edges)
Starting Gear: +1 pts (Spirit Bow + Spirit Spear are pretty sweet, situationally)
TOTAL: 19 (high, but fine considering the investment in non-combat Edges and skills)

Faith d6: 2 pts
AB: Miracles: 2 pts
Reduced Power Access: -1 (Lose a lot from Mystic list, but keep most of the combat and mobility powers)
Athletics d6, Fighting d6: 2 pts
Edges: 6 pts
Regen 1/day+Permanent Injuries: 3 pts
Starting Gear: +2 pts (Heavy Armor, Spirit Bow + Spirit Spear are pretty sweet, situationally)
TOTAL: 16 pts
GM Bennies: 6/8

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Re: SR 2.0 Playtest Point Breakdowns from Tribe

Post by Tribe of One » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:08 am

Need to add B&B IFs and MARS packages here when I have a chance.

HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
AB: Miracles: 2 pts
d6 Faith: 2 pts
AB: Psionics: 2 pts
d6 Psionics: 2 pts
Modified power access: -2 pts* (They lose about 30 (!) Miracle powers off the Mystic list and more than a dozen off the base Psionics list. There's still some utility between the two Edges and four skill points invested -- they have all the good combat powers -- but it's stretched thin.)
Energy Invulnerability: 12 (Basically 10 levels of the SPC Armor power + Heavy, with a significant limitation since melee + kinetic attacks bypass it. The common nature of the bypass offsets the advantage of ignoring AP from mundane energy. Very handy but easy to bypass).
Fighting d6: 2 pts
Martial Artist: 2 pts
Ley Line Magic Mastery: 2 pts
Ley Line Rejuvenation: 1 pts
Ley Line Sense: 2 pts
Onslaught: 1 pt
PPE Channeling: 2 pts
Steal Ley Line Energy: 2 pts (Spitballing. Very useful in very rare circumstances.)
Iconic Edge access: 1 pt (Pretty tame)
Cybernetics: --
Distrusted: -2
Enemies: -2
Power Activators: --
Code: -2 pts
Extra Gear: 2 pts
TOTAL: 33 pts (In line with the normal Mystic and other pure casters, though quite a bit behind warrior-types. With such a neutered power list, I'd say the warriors are better comparisons ... I think they're okay as is, but I'd be tempted to give them a bit more oomph: Another die in Fighting and a Combat Edge or Adept. Due to the melee vulnerability, they're weirdly better off focusing on ranged combat.)
GM Bennies: 6/8

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